AG: Winter Hills
 

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 08:26:44 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 29/01/2015 6:54 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:25:45 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 08:25:48 -0500, dgk wrote:

Or move to Florida. No hills, no winter. There is wind though.

And deep, deep sand.

Or there was in the late fifties.

I was there in the early 1950's and they had made sort of wide paths
with a black looking stuff that were pretty smooth and kept you from
sinking in the sand :-)


Until the wind blows the sand from the beach over those paths.

I don't remember any strong winds. An occasional hurricane certainly
and there was a period where we had fairly strong Westerlies that
carried some very large mosquitoes from the Everglades into the big
city (I measured one while she was having lunch and she measured 1/2"
length, over all), and of course the Palmetto Bugs, but no sand storms
that I remember.
--
Cheers,

John B.

AG: Winter Hills
 

On 29/01/2015 7:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 08:26:44 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 29/01/2015 6:54 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:25:45 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 08:25:48 -0500, dgk wrote:

Or move to Florida. No hills, no winter. There is wind though.

And deep, deep sand.

Or there was in the late fifties.

I was there in the early 1950's and they had made sort of wide paths
with a black looking stuff that were pretty smooth and kept you from
sinking in the sand :-)


Until the wind blows the sand from the beach over those paths.

I don't remember any strong winds. An occasional hurricane certainly
and there was a period where we had fairly strong Westerlies that
carried some very large mosquitoes from the Everglades into the big
city (I measured one while she was having lunch and she measured 1/2"
length, over all), and of course the Palmetto Bugs, but no sand storms
that I remember.



I guess it depends on where you are in FLA. The wind off the gulf along
the panhandle can be pretty intense.

1/2" mosquito? Hell, in Louisiana standards that would be a baby. But
thanks for reminding me what the locals call flying cock roaches. I
always assumed the name Palmetto Bug was invented so as to now frighten
tourists.

AG: Winter Hills
 

On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 09:25:18 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 29/01/2015 7:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 08:26:44 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 29/01/2015 6:54 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:25:45 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 08:25:48 -0500, dgk wrote:

Or move to Florida. No hills, no winter. There is wind though.

And deep, deep sand.

Or there was in the late fifties.

I was there in the early 1950's and they had made sort of wide paths
with a black looking stuff that were pretty smooth and kept you from
sinking in the sand :-)


Until the wind blows the sand from the beach over those paths.

I don't remember any strong winds. An occasional hurricane certainly
and there was a period where we had fairly strong Westerlies that
carried some very large mosquitoes from the Everglades into the big
city (I measured one while she was having lunch and she measured 1/2"
length, over all), and of course the Palmetto Bugs, but no sand storms
that I remember.



I guess it depends on where you are in FLA. The wind off the gulf along
the panhandle can be pretty intense.

1/2" mosquito? Hell, in Louisiana standards that would be a baby. But
thanks for reminding me what the locals call flying cock roaches. I
always assumed the name Palmetto Bug was invented so as to now frighten
tourists.


Off the Gulf? My god man, Miami is, well was, the only civilized place
in Florida. Once call "the Jewish Riviera" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

AG: Winter Hills
 

On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 09:25:18 -0500, Duane
wrote:

I
always assumed the name Palmetto Bug was invented so as to now frighten
tourists.

If I recall correctly -- bear in mind that I was only twelve at the
time -- palmetto bugs and cockroaches were different creatures. The
difference was, I was told, that you can kill a palmetto bug. Roaches
run faster.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net

AG: Winter Hills
 

On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 00:04:21 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 09:25:18 -0500, Duane
wrote:

I
always assumed the name Palmetto Bug was invented so as to now frighten
tourists.

If I recall correctly -- bear in mind that I was only twelve at the
time -- palmetto bugs and cockroaches were different creatures. The
difference was, I was told, that you can kill a palmetto bug. Roaches
run faster.

I have no idea whether you are correct but I can certainly verify that
every Floridian I ever talked to insisted that palmetto bugs WERE NOT
cockroaches :-)

I, on the other hand. used to argue that if it looked like a duck, and
quacked like a duck ....
--
Cheers,

John B.

AG: Thumb test
 

Before every ride, test your tires by putting all four fingers under
the rim and pressing down on the tread with your thumb. You should
also perform this test before and after inflating your tires, to check
whether the air you have been pumping actually went into the tire --
and to calibrate your thumb.

There have been a couple of times that I've wished that I were in the
habit of performing the thumb test after each rest stop.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

AG: Winter Hills
 

On 30/01/2015 8:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 09:25:18 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 29/01/2015 7:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 08:26:44 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 29/01/2015 6:54 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:25:45 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 08:25:48 -0500, dgk wrote:

Or move to Florida. No hills, no winter. There is wind though.

And deep, deep sand.

Or there was in the late fifties.

I was there in the early 1950's and they had made sort of wide paths
with a black looking stuff that were pretty smooth and kept you from
sinking in the sand :-)


Until the wind blows the sand from the beach over those paths.

I don't remember any strong winds. An occasional hurricane certainly
and there was a period where we had fairly strong Westerlies that
carried some very large mosquitoes from the Everglades into the big
city (I measured one while she was having lunch and she measured 1/2"
length, over all), and of course the Palmetto Bugs, but no sand storms
that I remember.



I guess it depends on where you are in FLA. The wind off the gulf along
the panhandle can be pretty intense.

1/2" mosquito? Hell, in Louisiana standards that would be a baby. But
thanks for reminding me what the locals call flying cock roaches. I
always assumed the name Palmetto Bug was invented so as to now frighten
tourists.


Off the Gulf? My god man, Miami is, well was, the only civilized place
in Florida. Once call "the Jewish Riviera" :-)



Well we were talking about FLA, not just Miami. Haven't ridden my bike
in Miami but I remember being behind a guy in a Lincoln at a red light
and when the light cycled he didn't move. I got out to see what was up
and thought he was dead but turns out he was just napping.

I have ridden on the east coast around Daytona and on the gulf coast and
blowing sand was a possibility in both of those places.

AG: Winter Hills
 

On 31/01/2015 6:10 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 00:04:21 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 09:25:18 -0500, Duane
wrote:

I
always assumed the name Palmetto Bug was invented so as to now frighten
tourists.

If I recall correctly -- bear in mind that I was only twelve at the
time -- palmetto bugs and cockroaches were different creatures. The
difference was, I was told, that you can kill a palmetto bug. Roaches
run faster.

I have no idea whether you are correct but I can certainly verify that
every Floridian I ever talked to insisted that palmetto bugs WERE NOT
cockroaches :-)

I, on the other hand. used to argue that if it looked like a duck, and
quacked like a duck ....


Maybe it's a New Orleans thing but Palemetto bugs are cock roaches that
fly and bite.

But then again, maybe not. According to Orkin:

http://www.orkin.com/cockroaches/dif...-palmetto-bug/

AG: Thumb test
 

On 01/02/2015 1:43 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

Before every ride, test your tires by putting all four fingers under
the rim and pressing down on the tread with your thumb. You should
also perform this test before and after inflating your tires, to check
whether the air you have been pumping actually went into the tire --
and to calibrate your thumb.

There have been a couple of times that I've wished that I were in the
habit of performing the thumb test after each rest stop.



It's a good trait to be able to test your tires with your fingers.
Comes in handy when filling with CO2 cartridges on the road.

AG: Skills
 

You learn skills so that you can ride; you don't ride to show off your
skills. Don't use a hard-won skill just because you spent a lot of
time learning it.

Negotiating your way into the left-turn lane and going with the flow
of traffic is the quickest, easiest, and safest way to make a left
turn most of the time, but in any vehicle there are times when it's
better to make three right turns instead. On many occasions, I've
turned right into a deserted side street, made a U turn, and crossed
with the light. Or I'll turn into a not-so-deserted side street and
turn around in a parking lot or driveway. And it isn't unknown to
ride straight through, get off the bike, walk back to the
intersection, and push the pedestrian-crossing button.

Selecting the best technique for the situation at hand is, perhaps,
the hardest-won skill of all.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

AG: Skills
 

On 07/02/2015 11:25 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

You learn skills so that you can ride; you don't ride to show off your
skills. Don't use a hard-won skill just because you spent a lot of
time learning it.

Negotiating your way into the left-turn lane and going with the flow
of traffic is the quickest, easiest, and safest way to make a left
turn most of the time, but in any vehicle there are times when it's
better to make three right turns instead. On many occasions, I've
turned right into a deserted side street, made a U turn, and crossed
with the light. Or I'll turn into a not-so-deserted side street and
turn around in a parking lot or driveway. And it isn't unknown to
ride straight through, get off the bike, walk back to the
intersection, and push the pedestrian-crossing button.

Selecting the best technique for the situation at hand is, perhaps,
the hardest-won skill of all.


+1

AG: Frostburn
 

Stick-type sunscreen is a convenient way to put a layer of grease on
exposed skin in cold weather, and it can be carried in your pocket for
touch-ups.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Frostburn
 

Joy Beeson wrote in
:

Stick-type sunscreen is a convenient way to put a layer of grease on
exposed skin in cold weather, and it can be carried in your pocket for
touch-ups.

What is "frostburn"? Do you mean windburn or frostbite? The former is a form
of sunburn, in which case sunscreen is indicated; the latter is a cold
weather injury, and sunscreen will not help.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

AG: Pedestrians are stationary, bicycles are pedestrians
 

For better or for worse, motorists see bike riders as people, not as
vehicles.

When a driver who doesn't ride sees you, he sees a pedestrian on
wheels.

Once upon a time, I was at a racquet club and needed to go to the
print shop, transact some business, and return to the racquet club. I
emerged from the driveway, turned onto New Karner, overtook a
pedestrian who was also headed toward US 20, rode a mile on 20, took
care of my errand, and rode back again.

The pedestrian was only a few yards from where I had overtaken him.

It isn't all that unreasonable for drivers to regard pedestrians as
stationary objects. It's often a lethal mistake, but one that is
quite understandable, and very common.

In the eyes of a motorist, you are a pedestrian. Expect him to aim
for the spot where you will be when he gets there, confident that you
will remain where you were when he last glanced in your direction.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

AG: Sleeping in a cold room
 

I don't *ever* expect to need this tip again.

When sleeping in an unheated room without the bed-heaters our
ancestors deployed, a pair of thick wool socks helps out of all
proportion to the area of skin covered. It can make the difference
between being comfortable and being curled up in a tight ball trying
in vain to avoid touching the sheets.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

AG: Country Roads
 

On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

AG: Country Roads
 

On Sat, 07 Mar 2015 23:31:57 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:


On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.


I think that your system works on more than country roads. I use much
similar actions in city riding, make sure the other bloke knows what
you intend, obviously look at people, etc. It seems to work :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

AG: The Tim Conway Warmup
 

A few weeks ago, I dined out, enjoyed my meal so much that I forgot to
fidget, and found my legs extremely stiff when I stood up. I said
"I'm not sure I can walk" and did my impression of Tim Conway's
impression of a little old man. To do this, you stand up straight,
slide one foot forward an inch, slide the other foot forward an inch,
and repeat very, very fast. It's funnier than a tank running over a
Cadillac.

After a foot or so of travel, I stopped to giggle -- and discovered
that all the cramps were gone. Ever since, I've been doing the Tim
Conway shuffle whenever I thought my muscles needed shaking up -- and,
I've found, doing it the full length of a vinyl runner that one is
trying to flatten can actually get one a little out of breath.

Non-skid slipper socks mess it all up.

A slow-motion version works on ice, if one has one's cane firmly
planted.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

AG: Quick Mechanical Check
 

Before each ride, lift your bike slightly and drop it. You will
quickly learn what sound it makes when nothing is loose.

If you have a bunch of heavy stuff in your panniers, bounce each tire
separately.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

AG: Country Roads
 

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?

On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:

On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

AG: Country Roads
 

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam
wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?

On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:

On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

--
Cheers,

John B.

AG: Country Roads
 

On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:

On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam
wrote:

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?

Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.

Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed
these opinions:

First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I
stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to
encourage them to pass until they can move over.

But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width -
i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable
with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered
long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy
said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice
guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass.

And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except
for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left
lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything
on my part.

It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a
few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal
right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.


--
- Frank Krygowski

AG: Country Roads
 

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 22:17:35 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:

On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam
wrote:

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?

Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.

Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed
these opinions:

First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I
stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to
encourage them to pass until they can move over.

But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width -
i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable
with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered
long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy
said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice
guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass.

And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except
for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left
lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything
on my part.

But what happens if he doesn't see you or just decides to run over
you? Country road, no traffic, pain in the arse, who's to know?

Something similar happened here in Thailand. A foreign couple
apparently riding side by side on a fairly wide two lane road were hit
and killed by a pickup truck that ran into them from the rear. The
Thai driving the pickup said that he dropped his phone and was
reaching down for it and didn't see them.

Obviously the pickup driver had to say something, he couldn't just
ignore the fact that he had run over two people and what actually
happened is anyone's guess. But the fact remains that the cyclists are
dead. Had they been riding in a single line on the side of the road
they might not be.

It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a
few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal
right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.

Yes, I believe in every state a cyclist has a right to use the public
highway, but does he have a right to impede other traffic? It has been
a while since I drove in the U.S. but I definitely have the
recollection that one was not entitled to impede other drivers. I
remember signs stating "Slow traffic keep right".

I also remember seeing trucks hauling sections of gigantic concrete
pipe that weren't allowed to travel during the day or early evening,
because their load took up more than one lane.
--
Cheers,

John B.

AG: Country Roads
 

On 3/27/2015 7:00 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 22:17:35 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except
for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left
lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything
on my part.

But what happens if he doesn't see you or just decides to run over
you? Country road, no traffic, pain in the arse, who's to know?

Something similar happened here in Thailand. A foreign couple
apparently riding side by side on a fairly wide two lane road were hit
and killed by a pickup truck that ran into them from the rear. The
Thai driving the pickup said that he dropped his phone and was
reaching down for it and didn't see them.

Obviously the pickup driver had to say something, he couldn't just
ignore the fact that he had run over two people and what actually
happened is anyone's guess. But the fact remains that the cyclists are
dead. Had they been riding in a single line on the side of the road
they might not be.

First, I think I lessen my chances of not being noticed (due to cell
phones or whatever) by being less prominent in the road. I've confirmed
this to my satisfaction by observing upcoming motorists in my mirror.
When I'm more leftward, they adjust much sooner by merging left.

If you're going to worry about the risk of deliberate homicide, remember
that in the U.S., cyclists fatalities from _all_ causes happen only once
in at least 10 million miles of riding; and half of those are due to
blatant cyclist mistakes. Deliberate homicide is probably once in 100
million miles or so, and those murderers can take out pedestrians in
crosswalks or on country roads, too. I'm not going to worry so much
that I travel only in a nice safe car.


It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a
few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal
right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.

Yes, I believe in every state a cyclist has a right to use the public
highway, but does he have a right to impede other traffic?

Some states have a "five or more" law saying any slow vehicle operator
has to let a train of cars by when he can safely pull off. If he can't
safely pull off, he keeps going. And a significant court case in Ohio -
which generated a legal precedent - said that courts can't convict of
impeding without taking the capability of the vehicle into account. IOW
if you're moving at a reasonable speed for a bicycle, you're legally OK.

--
- Frank Krygowski

AG: Country Roads
 

On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 13:46:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/27/2015 7:00 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 22:17:35 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:


And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except
for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left
lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything
on my part.

But what happens if he doesn't see you or just decides to run over
you? Country road, no traffic, pain in the arse, who's to know?

Something similar happened here in Thailand. A foreign couple
apparently riding side by side on a fairly wide two lane road were hit
and killed by a pickup truck that ran into them from the rear. The
Thai driving the pickup said that he dropped his phone and was
reaching down for it and didn't see them.

Obviously the pickup driver had to say something, he couldn't just
ignore the fact that he had run over two people and what actually
happened is anyone's guess. But the fact remains that the cyclists are
dead. Had they been riding in a single line on the side of the road
they might not be.

First, I think I lessen my chances of not being noticed (due to cell
phones or whatever) by being less prominent in the road. I've confirmed
this to my satisfaction by observing upcoming motorists in my mirror.
When I'm more leftward, they adjust much sooner by merging left.

If you're going to worry about the risk of deliberate homicide, remember
that in the U.S., cyclists fatalities from _all_ causes happen only once
in at least 10 million miles of riding; and half of those are due to
blatant cyclist mistakes. Deliberate homicide is probably once in 100
million miles or so, and those murderers can take out pedestrians in
crosswalks or on country roads, too. I'm not going to worry so much
that I travel only in a nice safe car.

No, I wasn't advocating casual homicide, I was merely using that as a
maximum measure if what might happen - driver texting, big truck
turning right, guy runs a stop light, etc.


It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a
few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal
right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.

Yes, I believe in every state a cyclist has a right to use the public
highway, but does he have a right to impede other traffic?

Some states have a "five or more" law saying any slow vehicle operator
has to let a train of cars by when he can safely pull off. If he can't
safely pull off, he keeps going. And a significant court case in Ohio -
which generated a legal precedent - said that courts can't convict of
impeding without taking the capability of the vehicle into account. IOW
if you're moving at a reasonable speed for a bicycle, you're legally OK.

I mentioned the huge concrete ducts which apparently were too big as
the trucks were parked off the highway during hours of daylight, and a
look at Ohio shows:

4511.22 Slow speed.
(A) No person shall stop or operate a vehicle, trackless trolley, or
street car at such an unreasonably slow speed as to impede or block
the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when stopping or
reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or to comply with law.

and

(B) Whenever the director of transportation or local authorities
determine on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation
that slow speeds on any part of a controlled-access highway,
expressway, or freeway consistently impede the normal and reasonable
movement of traffic, the director or such local authority may declare
a minimum speed limit below which no person shall operate a motor
vehicle, trackless trolley, or street car except when necessary for
safe operation or in compliance with law. No minimum speed limit
established hereunder shall be less than thirty miles per hour,
greater than fifty miles per hour, nor effective until the provisions
of section 4511.21 of the Revised Code, relating to appropriate signs,
have been fulfilled and local authorities have obtained the approval
of the director.

Arizona law states:

ARS 28-704-A reads:
A person shall not drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as
to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic
except when either of the following applies:. . .

ARS 28-815 conditionally requires a bicycle to be operated as close as
practicable to the right-hand curb. "as practicable" means
sustainable, safely and for the long term.

It would appear that U.S. law, in general, does not cater to the
individual that deliberately impedes other traffic.

On a personal basis I can't see how impeding others is justified as a
matter of habit. It seems like a very selfish act.

Rather like justifying armed robbery, "because the bloke ran out of
money".
--
Cheers,

John B.

AG: Country Roads
 

On 3/27/2015 7:11 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

On a personal basis I can't see how impeding others is justified as a
matter of habit. It seems like a very selfish act.

Rather like justifying armed robbery, "because the bloke ran out of
money".

Well, my recent run to the hardware store on the bike was likely to
delay some motorist, even though it actually didn't. But the delay, had
it occurred, would have been far less than 30 seconds; it's usually less
than five seconds (the time a motorist typically has to wait to change
lanes and get around me).

In any other context - e.g. pushing a grocery cart down an aisle, taking
a child shopping, stopping to buy something from a sidewalk vendor -
delaying someone else by five seconds doesn't raise an eyebrow; it's
normal human interaction, seldom requiring even "excuse me."

For some weird reason, it's considered an offense only when the person
delayed is sitting on a super-comfortable seat, in air-conditioned
comfort, while listening to his favorite music. Go figure!


--
- Frank Krygowski

AG: The best fluid for hydration
 

There's a lot of discussion on what to drink, what temperature it
should be, and so forth -- but the important question is "can you get
it inside the patient?". The best hydrating fluid is something that
you like and will drink lots of.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

AG: Country Roads
 

On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 20:02:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/27/2015 7:11 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

On a personal basis I can't see how impeding others is justified as a
matter of habit. It seems like a very selfish act.

Rather like justifying armed robbery, "because the bloke ran out of
money".

Well, my recent run to the hardware store on the bike was likely to
delay some motorist, even though it actually didn't. But the delay, had
it occurred, would have been far less than 30 seconds; it's usually less
than five seconds (the time a motorist typically has to wait to change
lanes and get around me).

In any other context - e.g. pushing a grocery cart down an aisle, taking
a child shopping, stopping to buy something from a sidewalk vendor -
delaying someone else by five seconds doesn't raise an eyebrow; it's
normal human interaction, seldom requiring even "excuse me."

Yes. Most noticeable when the other shopping cart driver demonstrate
that she/he is willing to make way for others. A different attitude is
frequently seen when the shopper drives down the middle of the aisle
blocking all the other traffic.

For some weird reason, it's considered an offense only when the person
delayed is sitting on a super-comfortable seat, in air-conditioned
comfort, while listening to his favorite music. Go figure!

That isn't really true, is it. I can remember years ago when people
driving 1948 Fords used to complain about some farmer and his team
hauling a wagon load of loose hay down the road.
--
Cheers,

John B.

AG: Country Roads
 

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:


On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam
wrote:

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?

Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.

Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed
these opinions:

First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I
stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to
encourage them to pass until they can move over.

But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width -
i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable
with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered
long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy
said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice
guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass.

And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except
for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left
lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything
on my part.

It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a
few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal
right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.

While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive
in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to inflict
upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification
of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative
interactions.

It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are
given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making the
audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out.

I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry
more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling that
stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs.


SMH

AG: The best fluid for hydration
 

On 3/28/2015 11:27 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

There's a lot of discussion on what to drink, what temperature it
should be, and so forth -- but the important question is "can you get
it inside the patient?". The best hydrating fluid is something that
you like and will drink lots of.

I've found that adding a little salt to my water makes it much easier to
"get inside the patient," especially on long rides in hot weather. And
for me, salt substitute works even better.

The little bottle I've had for years is "Cardia Salt" - part sodium
chloride, part potassium chloride, part magnesium sulfate.


--
- Frank Krygowski

AG: Country Roads
 

On 3/29/2015 8:54 AM, smharding wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:


On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam
wrote:

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they
want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?

Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.

Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed
these opinions:

First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I
stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to
encourage them to pass until they can move over.

But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width -
i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable
with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered
long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as
Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a
nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass.

And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone...
except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open
left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding
anything on my part.

It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes
a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a
legal right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.

While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive
in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to
inflict
upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification
of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative
interactions.

It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are
given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making
the
audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out.

I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry
more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling
that
stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs.

It could be interesting to start an online project, where volunteers
would catalog the vehicle models used by impolite motorists. Maybe we
could learn something. Online sociology!

But the incident I described above really was an Escalade. Pearl white,
IIRC.

--
- Frank Krygowski

AG: Country Roads
 

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 08:54:17 -0400, smharding
wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:


On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam
wrote:

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?

Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.

Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed
these opinions:

First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I
stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to
encourage them to pass until they can move over.

But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width -
i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable
with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered
long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy
said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice
guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass.

And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except
for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left
lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything
on my part.

It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a
few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal
right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.

While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive
in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to inflict
upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification
of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative
interactions.

It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are
given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making the
audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out.

I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry
more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling that
stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs.


SMH

I believe that the "Guy in the Escalade" is only at fault if he is
wearing a black hat :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

AG: Country Roads
 

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:37:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/29/2015 8:54 AM, smharding wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:


On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam
wrote:

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they
want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?

Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.

Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed
these opinions:

First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I
stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to
encourage them to pass until they can move over.

But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width -
i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable
with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered
long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as
Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a
nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass.

And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone...
except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open
left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding
anything on my part.

It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes
a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a
legal right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.

While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive
in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to
inflict
upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification
of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative
interactions.

It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are
given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making
the
audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out.

I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry
more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling
that
stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs.

It could be interesting to start an online project, where volunteers
would catalog the vehicle models used by impolite motorists. Maybe we
could learn something. Online sociology!

But the incident I described above really was an Escalade. Pearl white,
IIRC.

Although it appears to be the custom for cyclists to always blame "the
other guy", particularly when he/she is in a motor vehicle, the
California Highway Patrol study demonstrated that in more than half of
the motor vehicle - bicycle accidents the cyclist was in violation of
traffic regulations, and both the New York and London studies
mentioned cyclists injured while in violation of the law.

Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it
may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for
cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are
associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful
enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might
well be the real answer.
--
Cheers,

John B.

AG: The best fluid for hydration
 

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:34:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/28/2015 11:27 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

There's a lot of discussion on what to drink, what temperature it
should be, and so forth -- but the important question is "can you get
it inside the patient?". The best hydrating fluid is something that
you like and will drink lots of.

I've found that adding a little salt to my water makes it much easier to
"get inside the patient," especially on long rides in hot weather. And
for me, salt substitute works even better.

The little bottle I've had for years is "Cardia Salt" - part sodium
chloride, part potassium chloride, part magnesium sulfate.

I believe that adding chemicals to a hydration drink to improve the
absorption was the basis for "Gator Aid" and both salt and sugar are
added to water to make the "Oral Rehydration Solution" used to treat
cholera and typhoid both of which cause severe dehydration.

--
Cheers,

John B.

AG: The best fluid for hydration
 

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:34:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I've found that adding a little salt to my water makes it much easier to
"get inside the patient," especially on long rides in hot weather. And
for me, salt substitute works even better.

The little bottle I've had for years is "Cardia Salt" - part sodium
chloride, part potassium chloride, part magnesium sulfate.

I like a little fruit juice in my water -- but I *must* have plain
water in the other bottle.

A usually put a pretty strong dose of fruit juice in my tea, to supply
sugar as well as caffeine.

I drink more fluid when I ride through nap time, because I want to get
my caffeine inside before I get stupid.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

AG: Country Roads
 

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 06:54:14 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it
may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for
cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are
associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful
enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might
well be the real answer.

Telling bike riders what the rules are should be the first step.

I have spoken to people who were taught in school that one should ride
in the oncoming lane "so you can see them coming", and others were
taught that when two riders meet or are overtaken by a car, one should
dash across the street in front of the car and force it to pass
between them. This somehow "makes more room".

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net

AG: Country Roads
 

On 3/29/2015 7:54 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:37:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/29/2015 8:54 AM, smharding wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:


On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris AndyMorris@DeadSpam
wrote:

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they
want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?

Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.

Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed
these opinions:

First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I
stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to
encourage them to pass until they can move over.

But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width -
i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable
with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered
long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as
Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a
nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass.

And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone...
except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open
left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding
anything on my part.

It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes
a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a
legal right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.

While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive
in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to
inflict
upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification
of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative
interactions.

It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are
given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making
the
audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out.

I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry
more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling
that
stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs.

It could be interesting to start an online project, where volunteers
would catalog the vehicle models used by impolite motorists. Maybe we
could learn something. Online sociology!

But the incident I described above really was an Escalade. Pearl white,
IIRC.

Although it appears to be the custom for cyclists to always blame "the
other guy", particularly when he/she is in a motor vehicle, the
California Highway Patrol study demonstrated that in more than half of
the motor vehicle - bicycle accidents the cyclist was in violation of
traffic regulations, and both the New York and London studies
mentioned cyclists injured while in violation of the law.

Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it
may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for
cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are
associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful
enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might
well be the real answer.

Oh, I'm familiar with the data you mention. I was just talking about
the motorists who come up and blare the horn out of pure rudeness. IME,
they're extremely unlikely to cause a crash. They just want to show
dominance, and inform us that in their screwball opinion, we have no
right to the road.


--
- Frank Krygowski

AG: Country Roads
 

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 23:58:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Oh, I'm familiar with the data you mention. I was just talking about
the motorists who come up and blare the horn out of pure rudeness. IME,
they're extremely unlikely to cause a crash. They just want to show
dominance, and inform us that in their screwball opinion, we have no
right to the road.

Or, insulated in layers of sound-proofing, they are unaware that you
heard them coming when they were a mile away. That's the main purpose
of my "I've seen you!" pantomime.

I've actually heard people say "a polite toot on the horn".
Well, read it; my meatspace friends don't talk about traffic much.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
http://n3f.home.comcast.net/ -- Writers' Exchange
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

AG: Country Roads
 

On 27/03/2015 11:00, John B. Slocomb wrote:
But what happens if he doesn't see you or just decides to run over
you? Country road, no traffic, pain in the arse, who's to know?


So you trust the driver to manage to judge a tight in lane pass, but not
to see you if you are directly in front of them?

Andy

AG: Country Roads
 

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 23:38:49 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 06:54:14 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it
may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for
cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are
associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful
enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might
well be the real answer.

Telling bike riders what the rules are should be the first step.

I have spoken to people who were taught in school that one should ride
in the oncoming lane "so you can see them coming", and others were
taught that when two riders meet or are overtaken by a car, one should
dash across the street in front of the car and force it to pass
between them. This somehow "makes more room".

Well, if one gives up the responsibility of educating their kids to
some other entity than one should not complain about the quality of
the education.

Should one?
--
Cheers,

John B.