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-   -   AG: Aunt Granny's Advice, or How to become an elderly cyclist: (http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?t=245154)

Joy Beeson August 18th 14 11:48 PM

AG: Aunt Granny's Advice, or How to become an elderly cyclist:
 

This post is the first of a weekly series of grandmotherly aphorisms.
Each subject line will begin "AG:" for your killfiling convenience.

It seems obvious that the first thing you have to do is to learn and
obey the traffic laws, but it isn't that easy. You have to learn,
UNDERSTAND, and RESPECT the traffic laws.

If you don't understand a rule, you can't possibly obey it, nor can
you tell when it applies and when it doesn't.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Brad Rogers[_2_] August 19th 14 09:31 AM

AG: Aunt Granny's Advice, or How to become an elderly cyclist:
 
On Monday 18 Aug 2014 23:48 in message
,
Joy Beeson wrote:

If you don't understand a rule, you can't possibly obey it, nor can
you tell when it applies and when it doesn't.


All, possibly, true. The law usually has a workaround though; Ignorance
(of the law) is not a defense.

--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
I hope I live to relive the days gone by
Old Before I Die - Robbie Williams


John B. Slocomb August 19th 14 12:00 PM

AG: Aunt Granny's Advice, or How to become an elderly cyclist:
 
On Mon, 18 Aug 2014 19:48:28 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:


This post is the first of a weekly series of grandmotherly aphorisms.
Each subject line will begin "AG:" for your killfiling convenience.

It seems obvious that the first thing you have to do is to learn and
obey the traffic laws, but it isn't that easy. You have to learn,
UNDERSTAND, and RESPECT the traffic laws.

If you don't understand a rule, you can't possibly obey it, nor can
you tell when it applies and when it doesn't.


How come "Aunt Granny"?

It would seem to reference some hooky-pooky somewhere on the family
tree :-)

Aunty Bee sounds right and proper though :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.


[email protected] August 22nd 14 01:57 PM

AG: Aunt Granny's Advice, or How to become an elderly cyclist:
 
On Monday, August 18, 2014 3:48:28 PM UTC-7, Joy Beeson wrote:
This post is the first of a weekly series of grandmotherly aphorisms.

Each subject line will begin "AG:" for your killfiling convenience.



It seems obvious that the first thing you have to do is to learn and

obey the traffic laws, but it isn't that easy. You have to learn,

UNDERSTAND, and RESPECT the traffic laws.



If you don't understand a rule, you can't possibly obey it, nor can

you tell when it applies and when it doesn't.





--

joy beeson at comcast dot net

http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/

The above message is a Usenet post.

I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.


All of that is quite correct Joy but how many cyclists do you know that obey the traffic laws to the letter?

Traffic laws for cyclists are invented by non-cyclists and while they make sense in heavy traffic conditions they often make no sense at all on empty streets.

For instance - cars should ALWAYS stop completely at stop signs but bicyclists go a great deal slower, are generally higher above street level and can see opposing traffic more clearly. Also cyclists are the one's that would suffer from dangerously running stop signs. So their judgement is a great deal better than some traffic planner in an office somewhere.

Also - just the other day I was walking to a coffee shop early in the morning. There was a police car pulled over and they were apparently upbraiding a man for riding on the sidewalk. He was traveling opposite the direction of traffic on a one way street. The sidewalk was not only very wide but I was the only pedestrian on the street for three blocks in any direction.

While I was observing this a worker on a bicycle pulled out of a dangerous stream of traffic onto the sidewalk. The second cop started yelling at him to get in the street. He was a workman working three doors down from the corner from which he entered the sidewalk. And during this time the commute traffic continued to go through this section 10 mph or more above the speed limit with no action by the officers. And even worse - these cars are speeding through this section that contains small businesses and pedestrians and multiple crosswalk DESPITE the fact that they know that the lights are timed to give red lights on every single corner. And this is done to discourage cars from using city center side streets as commute lanes.

Until traffic laws are enforced in such a way that makes some sort of sense you are not going to find people that understand them in such a way to make traffic laws workable.

There doesn't seem to be any controls at all on speeders anymore in California. As a cyclist I used to see cars rolling stop signs. Now I see them not even slowing up even on busy main streets.

Well, I know the neighborhoods in which to watch for that kind of thing. And for the most part because bicycles are getting more popular traffic is growing more accepting and more polite to cyclists in general.

And now that certain people are growing older and riding slower this is a great deal more noticeable.

Joy Beeson August 25th 14 01:40 AM

AG: Aunt Granny's Advice, or How to become an elderly cyclist:
 
On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:00:54 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

How come "Aunt Granny"?


Particularly when I've never even *seen* a bottle of Bitter Brittle
Root.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Joy Beeson August 25th 14 01:42 AM

AG: Stoplights
 


I once witnessed an egregious example of not understanding the rules:
A traffic light changed and a car stopped in the intersection to wait
for it to turn green again.

Though we call it a stop light, a red light doesn't mean "stop". It
means "it is not your turn to use the intersection". Had the driver
understood this, he wouldn't have remained in the intersection when it
wasn't his turn.

The most-common way to avoid entering an intersection is to stop, but
it's also permitted to move slowly enough that the light turns green
just as you reach it, or to turn off on a side road if one presents
itself.

Likewise, a green light isn't a command to shut your eyes and plow
straight ahead. A green light grants permission to enter the
intersection if it is, in your considered opinion, safe to enter the
intersection.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Mr Pounder August 26th 14 08:13 PM

Stoplights
 

"Joy Beeson" wrote in message
...


I once witnessed an egregious example of not understanding the rules:
A traffic light changed and a car stopped in the intersection to wait
for it to turn green again.

Though we call it a stop light, a red light doesn't mean "stop". It
means "it is not your turn to use the intersection". Had the driver
understood this, he wouldn't have remained in the intersection when it
wasn't his turn.

The most-common way to avoid entering an intersection is to stop, but
it's also permitted to move slowly enough that the light turns green
just as you reach it, or to turn off on a side road if one presents
itself.

Likewise, a green light isn't a command to shut your eyes and plow
straight ahead. A green light grants permission to enter the
intersection if it is, in your considered opinion, safe to enter the
intersection.


Prick.



Joy Beeson September 1st 14 01:08 AM

AG: parked cars
 

When overtaking a parked car, treat it as though its door were already
open. There is no way to be quite certain that there is nobody in the
car.

Ride down the center of the lane, allowing as much space for the
parked car as for the oncoming traffic. Closing speeds are greater
for the oncoming traffic, but it's only in spy movies that moving cars
suddenly change shape.

Do not allow yourself to be overtaken while overtaking. If you have
to stop dead and wait for traffic to clear, stop dead and wait for
traffic to clear. If you have to get off and walk around the car on
the sidewalk, get off and walk around the car on the sidewalk. If you
have to take another route, take another route.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

John B. Slocomb September 1st 14 12:43 PM

AG: parked cars
 
On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 21:08:23 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:


When overtaking a parked car, treat it as though its door were already
open. There is no way to be quite certain that there is nobody in the
car.

Ride down the center of the lane, allowing as much space for the
parked car as for the oncoming traffic. Closing speeds are greater
for the oncoming traffic, but it's only in spy movies that moving cars
suddenly change shape.

Do not allow yourself to be overtaken while overtaking. If you have
to stop dead and wait for traffic to clear, stop dead and wait for
traffic to clear. If you have to get off and walk around the car on
the sidewalk, get off and walk around the car on the sidewalk. If you
have to take another route, take another route.


I read something in the "Old Farmer's Almanac" that might pertain to
your advice. It said, "Never corner anything bigger or meaner than you
are".

I can assure you that, having grown up in rural New England, the old
fellow certainly knew what he was talking about :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.


Joy Beeson September 8th 14 04:17 AM

AG: when to avoid the primary position
 

When riding on a road, the default position is the right-hand wheel
track -- that is, you put your rightmost wheel where everybody else
puts his rightmost wheel. (Change "right" to "left" if your country
drives on the left.)

Many people believe that "default position" means "the position I grab
with both hands and my teeth, close my eyes, and hang onto no matter
what".

What "default" means is "what I do WHEN I HAVE NO REASON TO DO
SOMETHING ELSE".

We could list reasons to do something else all week and never run out.
The first one to come to mind: that track *is* where everybody puts
his rightmost wheel, and, on many roads, pounds it into rubble. In
such a case, I usually ride on the comparatively-smooth path between
the wheel tracks -- unless the track is broken so badly that it's
hazardous to cross it, in which case I ride just outside the track and
grimly vow to find another road next time.

Left turns are another reason to leave the default path. The correct
line for approaching an intersection where you intend to turn left
might be the middle of the lane, the left-hand wheel track, the next
lane over, or something else -- but it's *never* as far right as the
right-hand wheel track. (Unless it's such a difficult turn that you
mean to turn right and make a U-turn, or get off the bike and press
the pedestrian button.)

When other traffic is continuous and there is a wide shoulder, your
place is four feet from the line of motorized traffic. That's four
feet between his outside mirror and your elbow, NOT four feet between
wheel tracks.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.



Joy Beeson September 15th 14 01:36 AM

AG: Hydration
 

Take the first sip of water as you are rolling out the driveway. It
sets the proper rhythm, and lets you know you forgot to clean your
bottle while you can still go back and do something about it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

A man riding his first September Century complained to another rider
that the water he'd been drinking was sloshing in his stomach. The
more-experienced rider said "You're supposed to take it in small sips,
not big gulps." The first man thought that he'd been advised to
replace each big gulp with one small sip, and would have been in dire
straits if the place where he ran out of steam and had to get off the
bike had not been serving his favorite beverage. He sat for a hour
sipping slowly, then got back on the bike and finished the ride --
taking small sips *frequently*.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Joy Beeson September 22nd 14 03:39 AM

AG: Carrying a cable
 

If you lock your lock to your frame or a wire pannier, it won't fall
out and get lost -- and it guarantees that you won't look the bike to
something when you haven't got the key.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

John D. Slocomb September 22nd 14 12:06 PM

AG: Carrying a cable
 
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 23:39:32 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:


If you lock your lock to your frame or a wire pannier, it won't fall
out and get lost -- and it guarantees that you won't look the bike to
something when you haven't got the key.


A combination lock solves a lot of "can't find the key" problems :-)
--
cheers,

John D.Slocomb

Andrew Chaplin September 22nd 14 01:53 PM

AG: Carrying a cable
 
Joy Beeson wrote in
:

If you lock your lock to your frame or a wire pannier, it won't fall
out and get lost -- and it guarantees that you won't look the bike to
something when you haven't got the key.


I cannot abide rattling from my bicycle, so I put my U-lock in my pack. I
also carry a cable to secure the front wheel.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Joy Beeson September 29th 14 03:56 AM

AG: Narrow Bike Lanes
 

When you are riding in a narrow bike lane and hear a car behind you,
watch until you see it in your rear-view mirror, then reflect that you
are smaller than a car and wait a bit longer. When you are quite sure
that the driver can see you clearly, wobble over the bike-lane line
into his lane, then immediately wobble back to the middle of the bike
lane. When you can see that the driver has selected his route and
decided on how much clearance to give you, move as far toward the edge
of the road as you dare -- that six inches might matter.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Joy Beeson October 5th 14 04:15 AM

AG: The seasons, they are a-changing.
 

When you can't match the weather perfectly, overdress below the waist
and under-dress above. It's easier to change your shirt than your
pants, and it's very important to keep your knees warm.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Joy Beeson October 12th 14 04:34 AM

AG: It's vasomotor rhinitis season
 

Paper handkerchiefs go all to lint in your pocket. Carry table
napkins or paper towels.

If you dry your hands on a paper towel, trash the snotty paper in your
pocket and keep the merely-wet paper.

Vasomotor rhinitis would be a great way to drain out a stuffy head --
if I had a nurse following me around in a motor home so that I could
lie down the instant I'd had enough exercise.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Andrew Chaplin October 15th 14 01:11 PM

AG: It's vasomotor rhinitis season
 
Joy Beeson wrote in
:

Paper handkerchiefs go all to lint in your pocket. Carry table
napkins or paper towels.


Cotton handkerchiefs work, too.

If you dry your hands on a paper towel, trash the snotty paper in your
pocket and keep the merely-wet paper.

Vasomotor rhinitis would be a great way to drain out a stuffy head --
if I had a nurse following me around in a motor home so that I could
lie down the instant I'd had enough exercise.


I reduce its severity by wearing eye protection that restricts air flow
around the eyes, and something--generally just my helmet, but, in colder
weather, a wool cap or balaclava--to cover the sinuses.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Joy Beeson October 19th 14 06:12 AM

AG: Look out for the leaves
 

Autumn's leaves can be as slippery as winter's ice. Even when the
pavement is dry, leaf-on-leaf doesn't have a very high coefficient of
friction, and when there's a layer of slimy rotten leaves hiding under
the dry fluffy leaves, you haven't got a chance.


As dramatic as it would be to say that the incident on the boardwalk
last November was the reason that the rides long enough to record in
my diary at
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/~joybeeson/CENT2014/
didn't start until August[1], there were other factors: the weather
turned nasty just as rehab had begun, the winter's supply of snow was
doled out to keep the roads slick almost every day, and in March I
slipped on snow I'd tracked into the kitchen, twisted my knee, and had
to ride a flatfoot instead of walking well into spring.

I heartily recommend the flatfoot/comfort/step-through/semi-recumbent
bike for rehab, by the way -- it allows you to exercise a leg without
putting weight on it, and you can't strain muscles because it won't
allow you to push the pedals with anything resembling force. Though I
did once instinctively pull back on the handlebars until I almost rose
in the saddle when I wanted to charge the transition from sod road to
asphalt, and it worked.

But you do have to be able to walk at least a little before you can
ride, and if there is an upslope along your route you have to be able
to walk at least that far -- but a flatfoot is an excellent wheeled
cane.


[1] The reports start in September because the routes of the warm-up
rides in August were boring. Also, September was when I got the idea
of writing up my quarter centuries.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.


Joy Beeson October 26th 14 04:17 AM

AG: Let them pass
 

When someone is stuck behind you and can't get around, keep your eyes
peeled for a place to pull off and let him pass.

Never mind that it's the only polite thing to do. Never mind that
most state laws say that slow-moving vehicles must not hold up traffic
any more than they have to. You want those guys out in front where
you can keep an eye on them!


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

John B. Slocomb October 26th 14 01:05 PM

AG: Let them pass
 
On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 00:17:36 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:


When someone is stuck behind you and can't get around, keep your eyes
peeled for a place to pull off and let him pass.

Never mind that it's the only polite thing to do. Never mind that
most state laws say that slow-moving vehicles must not hold up traffic
any more than they have to. You want those guys out in front where
you can keep an eye on them!



Well stated and undoubtedly makes more sense then to ride out in the
middle of the road with a long tail of infuriated drivers that you
can't watch without turning your head :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Andrew Chaplin October 26th 14 05:09 PM

AG: Let them pass
 
Joy Beeson wrote in
:

When someone is stuck behind you and can't get around, keep your eyes
peeled for a place to pull off and let him pass.

Never mind that it's the only polite thing to do. Never mind that
most state laws say that slow-moving vehicles must not hold up traffic
any more than they have to. You want those guys out in front where
you can keep an eye on them!


Chaplin's Philosophy for Bicycling:

1. Keep out from underneath other vehicles.
2. Do not unreasonably impede anyone else's progress.
3. Yield the right of way to the less aware so that you can keep them
where you can see and then avoid them as required.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Frank Krygowski[_4_] October 26th 14 07:52 PM

AG: Let them pass
 
On 10/25/2014 11:17 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

When someone is stuck behind you and can't get around, keep your eyes
peeled for a place to pull off and let him pass.


.... but don't endanger yourself for someone else's convenience.


Never mind that it's the only polite thing to do. Never mind that
most state laws say that slow-moving vehicles must not hold up traffic
any more than they have to. You want those guys out in front where
you can keep an eye on them!


I've heard the following: "Ride far enough right to be courteous. But
first, ride far enough left to be safe." (Brits and Aussies need to
reverse right vs. left, of course.)


--
- Frank Krygowski

John B. Slocomb October 27th 14 03:14 AM

AG: Let them pass
 
On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 14:52:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/25/2014 11:17 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

When someone is stuck behind you and can't get around, keep your eyes
peeled for a place to pull off and let him pass.


... but don't endanger yourself for someone else's convenience.


Never mind that it's the only polite thing to do. Never mind that
most state laws say that slow-moving vehicles must not hold up traffic
any more than they have to. You want those guys out in front where
you can keep an eye on them!


I've heard the following: "Ride far enough right to be courteous. But
first, ride far enough left to be safe." (Brits and Aussies need to
reverse right vs. left, of course.)



I prefer the "Old Farmer's Advice". "Never mess with anything bigger
or meaner then you are".
--
Cheers,

John B.

Joy Beeson October 28th 14 12:27 AM

AG: Let them pass
 
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:14:17 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

I prefer the "Old Farmer's Advice". "Never mess with anything bigger
or meaner then you are".


I prefer "ride far enough to the left that they can see that you have
moved over for them". They are more likely to realize that you are as
far right as is safe if they see you move.

Also helps to turn the head as if just now noticing them before
shifting right, to emphasize that you are moving for the overtaker's
convenience, but I'm always and forever forgetting that part.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Frank Krygowski[_4_] October 28th 14 01:47 AM

AG: Let them pass
 
On 10/27/2014 7:27 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:14:17 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

I prefer the "Old Farmer's Advice". "Never mess with anything bigger
or meaner then you are".


I prefer "ride far enough to the left that they can see that you have
moved over for them". They are more likely to realize that you are as
far right as is safe if they see you move.

Also helps to turn the head as if just now noticing them before
shifting right, to emphasize that you are moving for the overtaker's
convenience, but I'm always and forever forgetting that part.


Good idea.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Joy Beeson November 2nd 14 04:44 AM

AG: You can't hide from a crazy driver.
 

Nothing will guarantee that you won't get run over. There were two
incidents within walking distance of my house where a driver came
right through the wall of a building.

By great good luck, the boy who usually slept in the room that one
driver demolished was elsewhere that night.

The other driver smashed through the wall of a tavern. With even
better luck, nobody was in the space the car came to occupy -- one
patron told many times how he had been about to walk through that
space when an acquaintance spoke to him and he turned back.

Sometimes the inhabitants of the building aren't lucky, and then the
incident gets into the newspapers.

So does this mean that taking a nap in the middle of a road is just as
sensible as sleeping in your own bed?

You can't guarantee absolute safety, but learning how things work and
behaving sensibly can improve your odds.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.




Joy Beeson November 9th 14 04:27 AM

AG: Drinking Fountains
 

Don't count on water fountains in public parks; they are apt to be
turned off in the fall.

Once I found that a special event had put the only water fountain in
the City-County Athletic Complex behind a paid-admission fence; on a
previous occasion I had arrived to find that the other fountain had
been ripped out because, the groundskeeper said, there was frequently
a line to use it.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Joy Beeson November 16th 14 04:57 AM

AG: Make some noise
 

One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Andrew Chaplin November 16th 14 04:23 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)


If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Frank Krygowski[_4_] November 16th 14 08:20 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)


If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.


I agree in theory; but I'm sure it would never work in practice.

For whatever reason, American pedestrians tend to stay to the right on
walking facilities, passing opposite direction walkers left shoulder to
left shoulder. It's not 100%, but it's the strong trend, even in places
like indoor shopping malls. And that same scheme is socially enforced on
the local multi-user paths. I don't think signs or rules are likely to
succeed in changing it.

I remember (somewhere out in the central U.S.) encountering a MUP that
had signs telling cyclists to ride on the left, and walkers to keep
right! I suppose the motivation was the same - let the peds see the
oncoming cyclists - but that was even worse. We don't need to be
training any more cyclists to ride on the left side of roads.

Unfortunately, the root problem is that bikes and pedestrians don't mix
very well. Bikes actually mix much better with motor vehicles. This is
why I almost always prefer riding on roads, not MUPs.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Duane[_3_] November 18th 14 02:47 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)


If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.



In Montreal pedestrians usually walk toward oncoming traffic on roads.
(In fact, some people riding bikes consider themselves pedestrians and
do the same but that's a different issue.) On multi-use paths I find
that joggers tend to run against traffic but others aren't so consistent.

John D. Slocomb November 19th 14 01:48 AM

AG: Make some noise
 
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:47:32 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)


If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.



In Montreal pedestrians usually walk toward oncoming traffic on roads.
(In fact, some people riding bikes consider themselves pedestrians and
do the same but that's a different issue.) On multi-use paths I find
that joggers tend to run against traffic but others aren't so consistent.


Probably the walkers/runners should "take the lane" as it is popularly
known to solve all problems :-)

--
cheers,

John D.Slocomb

Duane[_3_] November 19th 14 06:20 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/18/2014 7:48 PM, John D. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:47:32 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)

If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.



In Montreal pedestrians usually walk toward oncoming traffic on roads.
(In fact, some people riding bikes consider themselves pedestrians and
do the same but that's a different issue.) On multi-use paths I find
that joggers tend to run against traffic but others aren't so consistent.


Probably the walkers/runners should "take the lane" as it is popularly
known to solve all problems :-)

--
cheers,



Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup, but if you look at
what happens when pedestrians walking at 4-6km/h "take the lane" where
bikes are riding at the legally limited 20k/h you begin to see a pattern...


Frank Krygowski[_4_] November 19th 14 09:02 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/19/2014 12:20 PM, Duane wrote:


Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup...


Of course not. You prefer to have nobody question your ideas.


--
- Frank Krygowski

John D. Slocomb November 20th 14 02:17 AM

AG: Make some noise
 
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:20:34 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/18/2014 7:48 PM, John D. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:47:32 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)

If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.



In Montreal pedestrians usually walk toward oncoming traffic on roads.
(In fact, some people riding bikes consider themselves pedestrians and
do the same but that's a different issue.) On multi-use paths I find
that joggers tend to run against traffic but others aren't so consistent.


Probably the walkers/runners should "take the lane" as it is popularly
known to solve all problems :-)

--
cheers,



Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup, but if you look at
what happens when pedestrians walking at 4-6km/h "take the lane" where
bikes are riding at the legally limited 20k/h you begin to see a pattern...


Hmmm.... I would imagine it will be much the same as a bicycle taking
the lane on a highway where motor vehicles are whizzing by at 80 or 90
:-)
--
cheers,

John D.Slocomb

Duane[_3_] November 20th 14 02:35 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/19/2014 8:17 PM, John D. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:20:34 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/18/2014 7:48 PM, John D. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:47:32 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 11/16/2014 10:23 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote in
:


One day while strolling down the center of a recreationway without a
thought in my head, I was startled by the whirr of off-road tires to
my right: two bike riders were overtaking me.

I was only mildly startled, so it was only mildly rude -- but suppose
a squirrel in the trees to my right had done something cute and I had
swerved in that direction to look? Both riders could have ended up in
the hospital or, with only a little bad luck, the morgue.

Before you overtake someone, MAKE SOME NOISE. "Hi!" is popular for
this purpose when overtaking another bicycle on the road. When
overtaking a pedestrian on a recreationway, I like to give a little
more information. After experimenting with many phrases, I settled on
"I am on your left". This usually elicits a smile and a step to the
right.

Cyclists who train in a pack often say "left!" or "on your left!" when
overtaking. If you address either remark to a random stranger, he
will jump to his left.

By the way, *always* overtake on the left, unless you are across the
pond or in the 5-Boro Bike Tour. On that tour, the cry when
overtaking was "Keep Straight!" (It would have been a *much* more
pleasant ride if they had told us that the front was being motor-paced
to a maximum speed of six miles per hour. For one thing, I'd have
worn walking shoes.)

If you're on foot, cyclists should overtake you on your right and they
should sound a bell or other warning close enough that you should hear it
but far enough away that they will still have time to evade should you
move to the right.

Multiuse pathways are like rural roads, and the watchword should be that
wheeled traffic keeps right and foot traffic keep left. When suburds
without sidewalks were in vogue in the '50s and '60s, the Ontario Ministry
of Transport ran public service ads on TV exhorting us, "Where there are
no sidewalks, walk on the left facing traffic." I would propose that modus
vivendi be observed on multi-use paths.



In Montreal pedestrians usually walk toward oncoming traffic on roads.
(In fact, some people riding bikes consider themselves pedestrians and
do the same but that's a different issue.) On multi-use paths I find
that joggers tend to run against traffic but others aren't so consistent.

Probably the walkers/runners should "take the lane" as it is popularly
known to solve all problems :-)

--
cheers,



Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup, but if you look at
what happens when pedestrians walking at 4-6km/h "take the lane" where
bikes are riding at the legally limited 20k/h you begin to see a pattern...


Hmmm.... I would imagine it will be much the same as a bicycle taking
the lane on a highway where motor vehicles are whizzing by at 80 or 90
:-)
--
cheers,


That's the pattern I was referring too.



Duane[_3_] November 20th 14 02:35 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On 11/19/2014 3:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/19/2014 12:20 PM, Duane wrote:


Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup...


Of course not. You prefer to have nobody question your ideas.



Troll.



dgk November 20th 14 03:08 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:35:17 -0500, Duane
wrote:


Not to get into this debate on yet another newsgroup, but if you look at
what happens when pedestrians walking at 4-6km/h "take the lane" where
bikes are riding at the legally limited 20k/h you begin to see a pattern...


Hmmm.... I would imagine it will be much the same as a bicycle taking
the lane on a highway where motor vehicles are whizzing by at 80 or 90
:-)
--
cheers,


That's the pattern I was referring too.


On the bike lane (not shared with pedestrians/runners) it works well
if the pedestrian stays to the right in either direction. The type A
who insists on running in the center is a big problem since we don't
know which side to pass on.

Rolf Mantel November 20th 14 03:16 PM

AG: Make some noise
 
Am 20.11.2014 15:08, schrieb dgk:
The type A
who insists on running in the center is a big problem since we don't
know which side to pass on.


I solve this by calling out loud 'Which side an I supposed to pass on?'
while I'm still far enough away to react on their decision; normal
pedestrians get a 'Hi' or 'Good day' or equivalent.

Rolf



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