so you want to be a pro?
 

On Tuesday, 17 May 2011 13:47:49 UTC-7, Scott wrote:
On May 17, 10:02*am, "Steve Freides" wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
"Steve Freides" wrote:

Scott wrote:
I'm always amazed by the folks who plug away their entire 20's,
chasing that elusive pro contract, thinking that if they just get
that one opportunity they'll make it big. *

Here's a case of what happens when you actually have the goods:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...-stage-winner-...

Discuss amongst yourselves.

You guys are focused on the wrong aspect of the story. It's not that
he won, but rather someone noticed his obvious talent and brought him
up through a development system. He didn' spend years sleeping in his
Yugo and eating pb&j waiting for the big break that was never going to
come.

Are we supposed to be happy for him??

De Clerq, by winning a stage at the Giro, has all but guaranteed himself a good five years of serious, FIVE-figure employment (in Euros!) that will prepare him for such exciting and lucrative careers as...bike mechanic! Or...cycling coach! He's so cool.

It's good that he's living the dream. It's better that he didn't interrupt his studies to do so. I am just taking this moment of young(ish) Bart's success to **** from a height upon it, because I still don't believe pro cycling is much more professional than pro wrestling.

To put it another way, pro cycling is a fun hobby, but it should give you pause to consider how quickly pro peloton salaries converge with Europe-league basketball player salaries.

so you want to be a pro?
 

On May 18, 10:36*am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 May 2011 13:47:49 UTC-7, Scott *wrote:
On May 17, 10:02*am, "Steve Freides" wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
"Steve Freides" wrote:

Scott wrote:
I'm always amazed by the folks who plug away their entire 20's,
chasing that elusive pro contract, thinking that if they just get
that one opportunity they'll make it big. *
Here's a case of what happens when you actually have the goods:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...-stage-winner-...

Discuss amongst yourselves.
You guys are focused on the wrong aspect of the story. It's not that
he won, but rather someone noticed his obvious talent and brought him
up through a development system. *He didn' spend years sleeping in his
Yugo and eating pb&j waiting for the big break that was never going to
come.

Are we supposed to be happy for him??

De Clerq, by winning a stage at the Giro, has all but guaranteed himself a good five years of serious, FIVE-figure employment (in Euros!) that will prepare him for such exciting and lucrative careers as...bike mechanic! Or....cycling coach! He's so cool.

It's good that he's living the dream. It's better that he didn't interrupt his studies to do so. I am just taking this moment of young(ish) Bart's success to **** from a height upon it, because I still don't believe pro cycling is much more professional than pro wrestling.

To put it another way, pro cycling is a fun hobby, but it should give you pause to consider how quickly pro peloton salaries converge with Europe-league basketball player salaries.

Again, focused on the wrong point. DeClerq is only relevant as a
counter-example to the Yugo driving, pb&j eating, and often doping no-
hopers. For those guys, they should accept that if they are not being
sought out at a relatively young age, it is not in the cards. Not
saying to quit racing, just face reality.

so you want to be a pro?
 

On May 18, 3:29*pm, Scott wrote:
On May 18, 10:36*am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:









On Tuesday, 17 May 2011 13:47:49 UTC-7, Scott *wrote:
On May 17, 10:02*am, "Steve Freides" wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
"Steve Freides" wrote:

Scott wrote:
I'm always amazed by the folks who plug away their entire 20's,
chasing that elusive pro contract, thinking that if they just get
that one opportunity they'll make it big. *
Here's a case of what happens when you actually have the goods:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...-stage-winner-...

Discuss amongst yourselves.
You guys are focused on the wrong aspect of the story. It's not that
he won, but rather someone noticed his obvious talent and brought him
up through a development system. *He didn' spend years sleeping in his
Yugo and eating pb&j waiting for the big break that was never going to
come.

Are we supposed to be happy for him??

De Clerq, by winning a stage at the Giro, has all but guaranteed himself a good five years of serious, FIVE-figure employment (in Euros!) that will prepare him for such exciting and lucrative careers as...bike mechanic! Or...cycling coach! He's so cool.

It's good that he's living the dream. It's better that he didn't interrupt his studies to do so. I am just taking this moment of young(ish) Bart's success to **** from a height upon it, because I still don't believe pro cycling is much more professional than pro wrestling.

To put it another way, pro cycling is a fun hobby, but it should give you pause to consider how quickly pro peloton salaries converge with Europe-league basketball player salaries.

Again, focused on the wrong point. *DeClerq is only relevant as a
counter-example to the Yugo driving, pb&j eating, and often doping no-
hopers. *For those guys, they should accept that if they are not being
sought out at a relatively young age, it is not in the cards. *Not
saying to quit racing, just face reality.

**** reality. What's it to you that another person's life choices
bother you? Big fookin' deal - the guy likes to ride his bike and has
a dream. I'm really at a loss to understand what you're suggesting as
the alternative. Continuing that line of thought....
"No, Johnny, baseball is not a realistic profession, so put down the
glove and go into your room and study the economics textbook I gave
you for your birthday. It's chartered accountancy for you, just like
your old man."

You do things while you can. A roofer won't be going up on a roof in
his sixties, etc., etc. Bike racing is a largely self-correcting
phenomenon. If a person isn't harming anyone and they enjoy doing
whatever it is, I don't give a rat's ass whether they're facing what
someone else considers reality or not.

R

so you want to be a pro?
 

On May 18, 5:23*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 18, 3:29*pm, Scott wrote:









On May 18, 10:36*am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

On Tuesday, 17 May 2011 13:47:49 UTC-7, Scott *wrote:
On May 17, 10:02*am, "Steve Freides" wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
"Steve Freides" wrote:

Scott wrote:
I'm always amazed by the folks who plug away their entire 20's,
chasing that elusive pro contract, thinking that if they just get
that one opportunity they'll make it big. *
Here's a case of what happens when you actually have the goods:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...-stage-winner-...

Discuss amongst yourselves.
You guys are focused on the wrong aspect of the story. It's not that
he won, but rather someone noticed his obvious talent and brought him
up through a development system. *He didn' spend years sleeping in his
Yugo and eating pb&j waiting for the big break that was never going to
come.

Are we supposed to be happy for him??

De Clerq, by winning a stage at the Giro, has all but guaranteed himself a good five years of serious, FIVE-figure employment (in Euros!) that will prepare him for such exciting and lucrative careers as...bike mechanic! Or...cycling coach! He's so cool.

It's good that he's living the dream. It's better that he didn't interrupt his studies to do so. I am just taking this moment of young(ish) Bart's success to **** from a height upon it, because I still don't believe pro cycling is much more professional than pro wrestling.

To put it another way, pro cycling is a fun hobby, but it should give you pause to consider how quickly pro peloton salaries converge with Europe-league basketball player salaries.

Again, focused on the wrong point. *DeClerq is only relevant as a
counter-example to the Yugo driving, pb&j eating, and often doping no-
hopers. *For those guys, they should accept that if they are not being
sought out at a relatively young age, it is not in the cards. *Not
saying to quit racing, just face reality.

**** reality. *What's it to you that another person's life choices
bother you? *Big fookin' deal - the guy likes to ride his bike and has
a dream. *I'm really at a loss to understand what you're suggesting as
the alternative. *Continuing that line of thought....
"No, Johnny, baseball is not a realistic profession, so put down the
glove and go into your room and study the economics textbook I gave
you for your birthday. *It's chartered accountancy for you, just like
your old man."

You do things while you can. *A roofer won't be going up on a roof in
his sixties, etc., etc. *Bike racing is a largely self-correcting
phenomenon. *If a person isn't harming anyone and they enjoy doing
whatever it is, I don't give a rat's ass whether they're facing what
someone else considers reality or not.

R

So, today you're defending the 12k dreamers?

FWIW, as I said before, I'm not suggesting folks don't race. Just
suggesting that for many, a reality check is a good idea. A way to
determine if you're really gonna make it, take a look at the DeClerq
example. If you're good, someone will find you.

so you want to be a pro?
 

On May 18, 7:43*pm, Scott wrote:
On May 18, 5:23*pm, RicodJour wrote:









On May 18, 3:29*pm, Scott wrote:

On May 18, 10:36*am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

On Tuesday, 17 May 2011 13:47:49 UTC-7, Scott *wrote:
On May 17, 10:02*am, "Steve Freides" wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
"Steve Freides" wrote:

Scott wrote:
I'm always amazed by the folks who plug away their entire 20's,
chasing that elusive pro contract, thinking that if they just get
that one opportunity they'll make it big. *
Here's a case of what happens when you actually have the goods:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...-stage-winner-...

Discuss amongst yourselves.
You guys are focused on the wrong aspect of the story. It's not that
he won, but rather someone noticed his obvious talent and brought him
up through a development system. *He didn' spend years sleeping in his
Yugo and eating pb&j waiting for the big break that was never going to
come.

Are we supposed to be happy for him??

De Clerq, by winning a stage at the Giro, has all but guaranteed himself a good five years of serious, FIVE-figure employment (in Euros!) that will prepare him for such exciting and lucrative careers as...bike mechanic! Or...cycling coach! He's so cool.

It's good that he's living the dream. It's better that he didn't interrupt his studies to do so. I am just taking this moment of young(ish) Bart's success to **** from a height upon it, because I still don't believe pro cycling is much more professional than pro wrestling.

To put it another way, pro cycling is a fun hobby, but it should give you pause to consider how quickly pro peloton salaries converge with Europe-league basketball player salaries.

Again, focused on the wrong point. *DeClerq is only relevant as a
counter-example to the Yugo driving, pb&j eating, and often doping no-
hopers. *For those guys, they should accept that if they are not being
sought out at a relatively young age, it is not in the cards. *Not
saying to quit racing, just face reality.

**** reality. *What's it to you that another person's life choices
bother you? *Big fookin' deal - the guy likes to ride his bike and has
a dream. *I'm really at a loss to understand what you're suggesting as
the alternative. *Continuing that line of thought....
"No, Johnny, baseball is not a realistic profession, so put down the
glove and go into your room and study the economics textbook I gave
you for your birthday. *It's chartered accountancy for you, just like
your old man."

You do things while you can. *A roofer won't be going up on a roof in
his sixties, etc., etc. *Bike racing is a largely self-correcting
phenomenon. *If a person isn't harming anyone and they enjoy doing
whatever it is, I don't give a rat's ass whether they're facing what
someone else considers reality or not.

R

So, today you're defending the 12k dreamers?

FWIW, as I said before, I'm not suggesting folks don't race. *Just
suggesting that for many, a reality check is a good idea. *A way to
determine if you're really gonna make it, take a look at the DeClerq
example. *If you're good, someone will find you.

Please allow me to rephrase myself...

**** reality. And yes, I am 'defending' dreamers, though most are
wise enough to ignore such words trying to make them face reality,
whatever the **** that means.

Answer me this, how many guys who 'wasted' their 20's following a
dream, looked back in later life and said, "I really wish I had sat at
a desk all those years."...hmmm? I'm guessing an amazingly low
percentage that hovers around zero.

It's the same thing as dying - nobody lies on their death bed and
regrets they didn't spend more time in the office. They regret that
they didn't spend more time with the family, didn't travel more,
didn't take a chance. These young guys are taking a chance, having
fun, suffering enough to know they're alive, and taking risks. I
would imagine, money not withstanding, that most of them would look at
your lifestyle and feel sorry for what you have to put up with.
They'd probably feel that way about mine as well.

I envy the young, and old, that can say **** reality and make it
stick. There's way too much reality in the world already and it makes
it a lesser place.

R

so you want to be a pro?
 

On 5/19/2011 12:32 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On May 18, 7:43 pm, wrote:
On May 18, 5:23 pm, wrote:









On May 18, 3:29 pm, wrote:

On May 18, 10:36 am, Ryan wrote:

On Tuesday, 17 May 2011 13:47:49 UTC-7, Scott wrote:
On May 17, 10:02 am, "Steve wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
In ,
"Steve wrote:

Scott wrote:
I'm always amazed by the folks who plug away their entire 20's,
chasing that elusive pro contract, thinking that if they just get
that one opportunity they'll make it big.
Here's a case of what happens when you actually have the goods:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...-stage-winner-...

Discuss amongst yourselves.
You guys are focused on the wrong aspect of the story. It's not that
he won, but rather someone noticed his obvious talent and brought him
up through a development system. He didn' spend years sleeping in his
Yugo and eating pb&j waiting for the big break that was never going to
come.

Are we supposed to be happy for him??

De Clerq, by winning a stage at the Giro, has all but guaranteed himself a good five years of serious, FIVE-figure employment (in Euros!) that will prepare him for such exciting and lucrative careers as...bike mechanic! Or...cycling coach! He's so cool.

It's good that he's living the dream. It's better that he didn't interrupt his studies to do so. I am just taking this moment of young(ish) Bart's success to **** from a height upon it, because I still don't believe pro cycling is much more professional than pro wrestling.

To put it another way, pro cycling is a fun hobby, but it should give you pause to consider how quickly pro peloton salaries converge with Europe-league basketball player salaries.

Again, focused on the wrong point. DeClerq is only relevant as a
counter-example to the Yugo driving, pb&j eating, and often doping no-
hopers. For those guys, they should accept that if they are not being
sought out at a relatively young age, it is not in the cards. Not
saying to quit racing, just face reality.

**** reality. What's it to you that another person's life choices
bother you? Big fookin' deal - the guy likes to ride his bike and has
a dream. I'm really at a loss to understand what you're suggesting as
the alternative. Continuing that line of thought....
"No, Johnny, baseball is not a realistic profession, so put down the
glove and go into your room and study the economics textbook I gave
you for your birthday. It's chartered accountancy for you, just like
your old man."

You do things while you can. A roofer won't be going up on a roof in
his sixties, etc., etc. Bike racing is a largely self-correcting
phenomenon. If a person isn't harming anyone and they enjoy doing
whatever it is, I don't give a rat's ass whether they're facing what
someone else considers reality or not.

R

So, today you're defending the 12k dreamers?

FWIW, as I said before, I'm not suggesting folks don't race. Just
suggesting that for many, a reality check is a good idea. A way to
determine if you're really gonna make it, take a look at the DeClerq
example. If you're good, someone will find you.

Please allow me to rephrase myself...

**** reality. And yes, I am 'defending' dreamers, though most are
wise enough to ignore such words trying to make them face reality,
whatever the **** that means.

Answer me this, how many guys who 'wasted' their 20's following a
dream, looked back in later life and said, "I really wish I had sat at
a desk all those years."...hmmm? I'm guessing an amazingly low
percentage that hovers around zero.

It's the same thing as dying - nobody lies on their death bed and
regrets they didn't spend more time in the office. They regret that
they didn't spend more time with the family, didn't travel more,
didn't take a chance. These young guys are taking a chance, having
fun, suffering enough to know they're alive, and taking risks. I
would imagine, money not withstanding, that most of them would look at
your lifestyle and feel sorry for what you have to put up with.
They'd probably feel that way about mine as well.

I envy the young, and old, that can say **** reality and make it
stick. There's way too much reality in the world already and it makes
it a lesser place.

R

What if the dream you are chasing is a stupid ass dream?

And you are raising a false comparison. There are many ways to
waste one's youth that don't involve cube farms. I believe all
Scott is asking is that if you are going to chase a dream the
pursuit should also involve the possibility of that dream coming
true.

Fred Flintstein

so you want to be a pro?
 

On 19/05/2011 06:32, RicodJour wrote:

SNIP

I envy the young, and old, that can say **** reality and make it
stick. There's way too much reality in the world already and it makes
it a lesser place.


APPLAUSE

so you want to be a pro?
 

On May 19, 4:35*pm, atriage wrote:
On 19/05/2011 06:32, RicodJour wrote:

SNIP

* I envy the young, and old, that can say **** reality and make it
* stick. *There's way too much reality in the world already and it makes
* it a lesser place.
*

APPLAUSE

On the other hand, the primal reality of being a mammal is your
ability to fight or flee. A sport like MMA demonstrates your ability
to fight and sports like running, swimming or cycling demonstrate your
ability to flee. If other mammals could comprehend sport, I predict
that they would admire these sports the most and would have difficulty
appreciating the more sublimated ones. They would say, `Who cares if
Nadal can beat Federer at tennis? Which guy can stomp the other to
death?`

If `reality`is the rat race, then I would agree. There`s nothing
glorious or essential about it. Kids don`t dream about becoming a
paper pusher. They are naturally attracted to the higher life -
honor, glory, fear, blood, group cohesion, etc. - but are mostly
discouraged along the way.

so you want to be a pro?
 

On May 19, 1:35*pm, atriage wrote:
On 19/05/2011 06:32, RicodJour wrote:

SNIP

* I envy the young, and old, that can say **** reality and make it
* stick. *There's way too much reality in the world already and it makes
* it a lesser place.
*

APPLAUSE

Dumbasses,

There is living your dream of freedom and telling the
rat race to go hang itself, and then there is dying in a
hunting-shelter in Alaska because you can't get back
across the river and didn't bring a map to find the
nearest road.

One's laudable and the other's stupid. It's not always
as easy to draw the line. Be a 12K dreamer, sure, but
recognize that you are a 12K dreamer and that by the
time you've raced for a few years, if you had the talent
to make it to the big leagues, someone would have noticed
by now. I think that's what Scott was pointing out.

It's like college athletes, who have a tiny chance of making
it to the majors and getting the glory and money. There,
the forces encouraging that dream and exploiting the
athletes are large selfish institutions of higher learning
(and TV networks, etc). If there's one good thing about
US cycling's 12K dreamer system, it's that US cycling
is half-assed enough that no analogous institution or
person is making vast amounts of coin on the vain hopes
of the 12K dreamers.

Fredmaster Ben

so you want to be a pro?
 

In article
,
Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:

On May 19, 1:35Â*pm, atriage wrote:
On 19/05/2011 06:32, RicodJour wrote:

SNIP

Â* I envy the young, and old, that can say **** reality and make it
Â* stick. Â*There's way too much reality in the world already and it makes
Â* it a lesser place.
Â*

APPLAUSE

Dumbasses,

There is living your dream of freedom and telling the
rat race to go hang itself, and then there is dying in a
hunting-shelter in Alaska because you can't get back
across the river and didn't bring a map to find the
nearest road.

One's laudable and the other's stupid. It's not always
as easy to draw the line. Be a 12K dreamer, sure, but
recognize that you are a 12K dreamer and that by the
time you've raced for a few years, if you had the talent
to make it to the big leagues, someone would have noticed
by now. I think that's what Scott was pointing out.

It's like college athletes, who have a tiny chance of making
it to the majors and getting the glory and money. There,
the forces encouraging that dream and exploiting the
athletes are large selfish institutions of higher learning
(and TV networks, etc). If there's one good thing about
US cycling's 12K dreamer system, it's that US cycling
is half-assed enough that no analogous institution or
person is making vast amounts of coin on the vain hopes
of the 12K dreamers.

But think. If such an infrastructure existed
we would not have these unseemly, doping witch hunts.

--
Old Fritz