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-   -   Cyclists triggering red light cameras (http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?t=257322)

Frank Krygowski[_4_] April 12th 19 04:06 PM

Cyclists triggering red light cameras
 
On 4/12/2019 2:21 AM, AK wrote:

I think you are forgetting some things.

If a cyclist blows thru a red light and is struck by a car, don't you think the driver will be at least a tad bit traumatized?


Give me a break. "Traumatized" is used mostly as a "let my client off
the hook" excuse for guilty motorists.

There is no valid excuse for cyclists to run lights and stop signs.


The troll alert is beginning to sound...

And while I am at it....

Cyclists should ride close to the curb while in bike lanes.


Bull**** alert plus flashing troll alert!

(Or is it just flaming, inexcusable ignorance?)

Whenever there is a contest between car and bike, the outcome is ALWAYS the same. The cyclist loses. It don't matter if you had the right of way, etc.


Fine. Whether you, Andy, are a cyclist or a motorist, just stay off the
roads. Your attitudes demonstrate critical ignorance and incompetence.


--
- Frank Krygowski

JBeattie April 12th 19 04:43 PM

Cyclists triggering red light cameras
 
On Friday, April 12, 2019 at 8:06:49 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2019 2:21 AM, AK wrote:

I think you are forgetting some things.

If a cyclist blows thru a red light and is struck by a car, don't you think the driver will be at least a tad bit traumatized?


Give me a break. "Traumatized" is used mostly as a "let my client off
the hook" excuse for guilty motorists.


WTF? Seems like an easy question. There is no "hook" to be let off of when a cyclist blows a light and gets hit by a car. Since when is a motorist guilty for proceeding through a green light?

Not that I agree with Andy's sentiment, but cyclists -- including me -- blow signs and lights at their own risk. If I get hit by a car, that's on me. And yes, I've now defended two cases where the motorist sued for emotional distress, although both involved pedestrians and suicide by truck. That seems to be popular these days -- park by the side of the road and step in front of a giant truck. Not my first choice for offing myself. One guy got cut in half, which makes for a messy clean-up, and I hate making a mess.


-- Jay Beattie.





Frank Krygowski[_4_] April 12th 19 06:45 PM

Cyclists triggering red light cameras
 
On 4/12/2019 11:43 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 12, 2019 at 8:06:49 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2019 2:21 AM, AK wrote:

I think you are forgetting some things.

If a cyclist blows thru a red light and is struck by a car, don't you think the driver will be at least a tad bit traumatized?


Give me a break. "Traumatized" is used mostly as a "let my client off
the hook" excuse for guilty motorists.


WTF? Seems like an easy question. There is no "hook" to be let off of when a cyclist blows a light and gets hit by a car. Since when is a motorist guilty for proceeding through a green light?

Not that I agree with Andy's sentiment, but cyclists -- including me -- blow signs and lights at their own risk. If I get hit by a car, that's on me.


I'm not excusing running lights or stop signs. Yes, that's on the
cyclist - or on the motorists who do it much, much more frequently.

But it bothers me when people wring hands about "trauma" to the most
over-privileged group of road users. Motorists routinely traumatize each
other as well as non-motorists. But that "trauma" seems to come up only
in hypothetical bicycling cases like the one AK presents.

And yes, I've now defended two cases where the motorist sued for emotional distress, although both involved pedestrians and suicide by truck. That seems to be popular these days -- park by the side of the road and step in front of a giant truck. Not my first choice for offing myself. One guy got cut in half, which makes for a messy clean-up, and I hate making a mess.


Agreed. If you're going to suicide, don't involve others.

--
- Frank Krygowski

jOHN b. April 12th 19 10:34 PM

Cyclists triggering red light cameras
 
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 17:49:05 +1000, James
wrote:

On 12/4/19 4:21 pm, AK wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 9:25:43 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
On 12/4/19 9:07 am, AK wrote:
I was looking up whether a cyclist can get a ticket.

And found this

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...391955121.html

I see a lot of cyclists running stop signs.

That sets a bad example.


Many motorists complain about cyclists running red lights, so
researchers did some researching.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/...an-drivers-do/

Bad examples aside, it is also worth remembering that someone on a
bicycle who disobeys a red light really only puts themselves at risk.
I'm yet to read of a car v bike crash where the car driver suffers
injuries other than perhaps psychological.

However when a motorist disobeys a red light they endanger all other
road users and themselves.

There is a distinct difference in the level of risk.

--
JS


I think you are forgetting some things.

If a cyclist blows thru a red light and is struck by a car, don't you think the driver will be at least a tad bit traumatized?


Read again what I wrote.


There is no valid excuse for cyclists to run lights and stop signs.


Yes there is. There are many places I've encountered where the buried
vehicle sensors do not reliably detect bicycles, and as a consequence it
is necessary to ignore the lights and proceed with caution.


Andy

And while I am at it....

Cyclists should ride close to the curb while in bike lanes.

I have seen some who ride close to the car lane and have been clipped by a cars side mirror.

Whenever there is a contest between car and bike, the outcome is ALWAYS the same. The cyclist loses. It don't matter if you had the right of way, etc.



Oh dear. You probably won't be very popular with a number of people who
chat on this news group with opinions like that.


James, are you saying that in a bicycle/auto collision the car comes
off worse? Or if the bicycle has the right of way in a collision the
bicycle won't get damaged more than the auto?
--
cheers,

John B.


jOHN b. April 12th 19 11:01 PM

Cyclists triggering red light cameras
 
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 11:50:23 +0200, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

James wrote:
On 12/4/19 4:21 pm, AK wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 9:25:43 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
On 12/4/19 9:07 am, AK wrote:
I was looking up whether a cyclist can get a ticket.

And found this

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...391955121.html

I see a lot of cyclists running stop signs.

That sets a bad example.

Many motorists complain about cyclists running red lights, so
researchers did some researching.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/...an-drivers-do/

Bad examples aside, it is also worth remembering that someone on a
bicycle who disobeys a red light really only puts themselves at
risk. I'm yet to read of a car v bike crash where the car driver
suffers injuries other than perhaps psychological.

However when a motorist disobeys a red light they endanger all other
road users and themselves.

There is a distinct difference in the level of risk.

I think you are forgetting some things.

If a cyclist blows thru a red light and is struck by a car, don't you
think the driver will be at least a tad bit traumatized?


Read again what I wrote.


Yeah, but why doesn't anybody ever think of the children or the dog in the back?

There is no valid excuse for cyclists to run lights and stop signs.


Yes there is. There are many places I've encountered where the buried
vehicle sensors do not reliably detect bicycles, and as a consequence it
is necessary to ignore the lights and proceed with caution.


A former life insurance CEO, trained mathematician, just got killed by a
drunk motorist, wife badly injured, obediently waiting at a stoplight with
their pedelecs. They should have kept moving. Great against muggers, too.

http://www.tellerreport.com/news/--hit-by-drunk--w%C3%BCstenrot-board-heinen-dies-after-a-traffic-accident-.SyxCy3XcYE.html

And while I am at it....

Cyclists should ride close to the curb while in bike lanes.


"Daddy, look, another clueless gutter bunny!"

I have seen some who ride close to the car lane and have been clipped
by a cars side mirror.


Ride squarely in the "car lane" if the "bike" lane is unsafely narrow or
blocked.


Hmm... I habitually ride on highways that do not have a reserved
bicycle lane and where the majority of the traffic is traveling at
speeds greater then 100 kph. Are you suggesting that I ride squarely
in the "car lane"?

Whenever there is a contest between car and bike, the outcome is ALWAYS
the same. The cyclist loses. It don't matter if you had the right of
way, etc.


Oh dear. You probably won't be very popular with a number of people who
chat on this news group with opinions like that.


AK scientist had already triggered some troll alert lamps.


Ah, you are saying that when a car and bicycle contest the way that
the bicycle comes off best? If so than there are a whole lot of folks
who have had horrible bad luck as in every bicycle crash recounted on
this site, over the years, the bicycle has always come off the worst.
--
cheers,

John B.


jOHN b. April 12th 19 11:05 PM

Cyclists triggering red light cameras
 
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 11:06:43 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/12/2019 2:21 AM, AK wrote:

I think you are forgetting some things.

If a cyclist blows thru a red light and is struck by a car, don't you think the driver will be at least a tad bit traumatized?


Give me a break. "Traumatized" is used mostly as a "let my client off
the hook" excuse for guilty motorists.

There is no valid excuse for cyclists to run lights and stop signs.


The troll alert is beginning to sound...

And while I am at it....

Cyclists should ride close to the curb while in bike lanes.


Bull**** alert plus flashing troll alert!

(Or is it just flaming, inexcusable ignorance?)

Whenever there is a contest between car and bike, the outcome is ALWAYS the same. The cyclist loses. It don't matter if you had the right of way, etc.


Fine. Whether you, Andy, are a cyclist or a motorist, just stay off the
roads. Your attitudes demonstrate critical ignorance and incompetence.


I see Frank. You are arguing that when a bicycle/motor vehicle crash
occurs that the bicycle does not come off worse?
--
cheers,

John B.


James[_8_] April 12th 19 11:09 PM

Cyclists triggering red light cameras
 
On 13/4/19 7:34 am, John B. wrote:


James, are you saying that in a bicycle/auto collision the car comes
off worse?


No.

Or if the bicycle has the right of way in a collision the
bicycle won't get damaged more than the auto?


No.

--
JS

[email protected] April 12th 19 11:58 PM

Cyclists triggering red light cameras
 
On Friday, April 12, 2019 at 2:49:19 AM UTC-5, James wrote:
On 12/4/19 4:21 pm, AK wrote:


There is no valid excuse for cyclists to run lights and stop signs.


Yes there is. There are many places I've encountered where the buried
vehicle sensors do not reliably detect bicycles, and as a consequence it
is necessary to ignore the lights and proceed with caution.


Guess I am making a distinction between "run" ning lights and stop signs and not officially obeying the law down to the last letter. I think of "run" ning a light or sign as not stopping at all and just blowing right through them. That is wrong. But I consider it OK to not officially obey the letter of the law by a bicycle if they slow down and almost come to a stop but don't at a stop sign. Rolling stop I think its called. And for red lights, stop and look to see if anyone is coming and then cross illegally while the light is red if its safe and not wait for the light to change, if it will ever change if there are those magnets buried in the pavement that cannot detect bikes, only steel cars.

AMuzi April 12th 19 11:59 PM

Cyclists triggering red light cameras
 
On 4/12/2019 5:01 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 11:50:23 +0200, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

James wrote:
On 12/4/19 4:21 pm, AK wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 9:25:43 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
On 12/4/19 9:07 am, AK wrote:
I was looking up whether a cyclist can get a ticket.

And found this

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...391955121.html

I see a lot of cyclists running stop signs.

That sets a bad example.

Many motorists complain about cyclists running red lights, so
researchers did some researching.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/...an-drivers-do/

Bad examples aside, it is also worth remembering that someone on a
bicycle who disobeys a red light really only puts themselves at
risk. I'm yet to read of a car v bike crash where the car driver
suffers injuries other than perhaps psychological.

However when a motorist disobeys a red light they endanger all other
road users and themselves.

There is a distinct difference in the level of risk.

I think you are forgetting some things.

If a cyclist blows thru a red light and is struck by a car, don't you
think the driver will be at least a tad bit traumatized?

Read again what I wrote.


Yeah, but why doesn't anybody ever think of the children or the dog in the back?

There is no valid excuse for cyclists to run lights and stop signs.

Yes there is. There are many places I've encountered where the buried
vehicle sensors do not reliably detect bicycles, and as a consequence it
is necessary to ignore the lights and proceed with caution.


A former life insurance CEO, trained mathematician, just got killed by a
drunk motorist, wife badly injured, obediently waiting at a stoplight with
their pedelecs. They should have kept moving. Great against muggers, too.

http://www.tellerreport.com/news/--hit-by-drunk--w%C3%BCstenrot-board-heinen-dies-after-a-traffic-accident-.SyxCy3XcYE.html

And while I am at it....

Cyclists should ride close to the curb while in bike lanes.


"Daddy, look, another clueless gutter bunny!"

I have seen some who ride close to the car lane and have been clipped
by a cars side mirror.


Ride squarely in the "car lane" if the "bike" lane is unsafely narrow or
blocked.


Hmm... I habitually ride on highways that do not have a reserved
bicycle lane and where the majority of the traffic is traveling at
speeds greater then 100 kph. Are you suggesting that I ride squarely
in the "car lane"?

Whenever there is a contest between car and bike, the outcome is ALWAYS
the same. The cyclist loses. It don't matter if you had the right of
way, etc.

Oh dear. You probably won't be very popular with a number of people who
chat on this news group with opinions like that.


AK scientist had already triggered some troll alert lamps.


Ah, you are saying that when a car and bicycle contest the way that
the bicycle comes off best? If so than there are a whole lot of folks
who have had horrible bad luck as in every bicycle crash recounted on
this site, over the years, the bicycle has always come off the worst.


One of our customers, a very fit woman in her 50s, was hit
in an intersection, rolled through the windshield and
instinctively punched the driver square in his face. She
was fine but for bruises.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971



jOHN b. April 13th 19 12:23 AM

Cyclists triggering red light cameras
 
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 17:59:11 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/12/2019 5:01 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 11:50:23 +0200, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

James wrote:
On 12/4/19 4:21 pm, AK wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2019 at 9:25:43 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
On 12/4/19 9:07 am, AK wrote:
I was looking up whether a cyclist can get a ticket.

And found this

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...391955121.html

I see a lot of cyclists running stop signs.

That sets a bad example.

Many motorists complain about cyclists running red lights, so
researchers did some researching.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/...an-drivers-do/

Bad examples aside, it is also worth remembering that someone on a
bicycle who disobeys a red light really only puts themselves at
risk. I'm yet to read of a car v bike crash where the car driver
suffers injuries other than perhaps psychological.

However when a motorist disobeys a red light they endanger all other
road users and themselves.

There is a distinct difference in the level of risk.

I think you are forgetting some things.

If a cyclist blows thru a red light and is struck by a car, don't you
think the driver will be at least a tad bit traumatized?

Read again what I wrote.

Yeah, but why doesn't anybody ever think of the children or the dog in the back?

There is no valid excuse for cyclists to run lights and stop signs.

Yes there is. There are many places I've encountered where the buried
vehicle sensors do not reliably detect bicycles, and as a consequence it
is necessary to ignore the lights and proceed with caution.

A former life insurance CEO, trained mathematician, just got killed by a
drunk motorist, wife badly injured, obediently waiting at a stoplight with
their pedelecs. They should have kept moving. Great against muggers, too.

http://www.tellerreport.com/news/--hit-by-drunk--w%C3%BCstenrot-board-heinen-dies-after-a-traffic-accident-.SyxCy3XcYE.html

And while I am at it....

Cyclists should ride close to the curb while in bike lanes.

"Daddy, look, another clueless gutter bunny!"

I have seen some who ride close to the car lane and have been clipped
by a cars side mirror.

Ride squarely in the "car lane" if the "bike" lane is unsafely narrow or
blocked.


Hmm... I habitually ride on highways that do not have a reserved
bicycle lane and where the majority of the traffic is traveling at
speeds greater then 100 kph. Are you suggesting that I ride squarely
in the "car lane"?

Whenever there is a contest between car and bike, the outcome is ALWAYS
the same. The cyclist loses. It don't matter if you had the right of
way, etc.

Oh dear. You probably won't be very popular with a number of people who
chat on this news group with opinions like that.

AK scientist had already triggered some troll alert lamps.


Ah, you are saying that when a car and bicycle contest the way that
the bicycle comes off best? If so than there are a whole lot of folks
who have had horrible bad luck as in every bicycle crash recounted on
this site, over the years, the bicycle has always come off the worst.


One of our customers, a very fit woman in her 50s, was hit
in an intersection, rolled through the windshield and
instinctively punched the driver square in his face. She
was fine but for bruises.


It also proves the superiority of the tempered window glass in autos
that shatters into small, dull pieces rather than large sharp edges
:-)
--
cheers,

John B.



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