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-   -   Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective (http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?t=228948)

JimmyMac July 2nd 11 07:43 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
I haven't been here in quite a while. With advanced (end state,
metastatic), clinical stage 4 prostate cancer, I've had to reassess my
priorities, put hings in perspective and frankly ARBR was not at the
top of the list. I have bigger fish to fry, so to speak. Regardless,
I see that little has changed here. The forum has lost many of it
members and is no longer about recumbent bicycles. ARBR has become
the sounding board and soap box of the Tibetan Monkey who arguably has
has far too much time on his hands. Even the crotchety Ed Dolan
appears to have had enough and departed for other forums. I've seen
this once useful forum hit the skids, degenerate and eventually rock
bottom. It has gone through a regressive evolution that is
unfortunate. Here are my thoughts in general regarding the Internet
forum life cycle of which ARBR is a prime example...

Like it or not, Internet forums commonly undergo an evolutionary
process regardless of whether they are moderated or unmoderated. The
natural life cycle of an Internet forum, with its various phases,
might be best summed up as follows:

1. Declaration of Enthusiasm - Subscribers introduce themselves and
gush over how wonderful it is to have encountered kindred spirits.

2. Origin of Evangelism - Participants moan about how the forum
consists of far too few members and brainstorming ensues to initiate
recruitment strategies.

3. Expansion of Community - An ever increasing number of interested
parties subscribe and contribute to the forum. Lengthy threads
develop (some more relevant than others).

4. Emergence of Camaraderie - Information and advice is exchanged
(some empirically founded ... some just anecdotal nonsense).
Friendships are forged. Members rib one another, but all in good
fun. New subscribers are welcomed and newbies. Both newcomers and
veterans alike are receptive to asking questions, providing answers,
and sharing experiences.

5. Genesis of Disenchantment - The volume of postings increases
dramatically. Not all threads are of interest to all participants.
Members pitch a bitch about signal-to-noise ratio, off-topic threads,
me too posts, forged and spoofed identities, forwarding of private
emails, and other violations of internet forum netiquette. Member #1
threatens to unsubscribe if things don't change for the better.
Member #2 aligns himself with Member #1. Member #3 disagrees with
both Members #1 and #2. Member #4 suggests that Members #1, #2, and
#3 should lighten up. Flame wars erupt and adversaries emerge.
Bandwidth is sacrificed as an abundance of postings proliferate in an
effort to resolve differences and restore some semblance of order.
During this particular phase, many a delete key gets more than its
share of abuse and filtering and killfiles are implemented.

6. Stagnation of Growth - The purists castigate members who ask an old
question or respond humorously to a serious post. Newcomers are
rebuffed and discouraged. SPAM posts, trolls and stalkers dominate
the forum. Traffic volume subsides considerably and is generally
confined to minor topics. Many relevant issues are communicated via
private emails. Some members turn in their membership cards in a huff
and the remaining members continue to participate in phases #4 and/or
#5 above.

7. Salvation from Destruction - Someone like me pounds away at the
keyboard composing a post such as this one in an effort to stir the
juices of those members who find themselves entrenched in the quagmire
of phase #4 and/or #5 above ... mostly #5 in hopes of resurection ;-)

Well, at least this posting should prove to be a thought provoking
departure from the norm and hopefully sheds some light on the nature
of the beast we have come to love and hate ... the internet forum.
Perhaps I should have added a pahse nuber 8 (Fight of Forum), when
hope is abandoned, forum flight ensues and membership dwindles.

Tºm Shermªn °_° July 3rd 11 08:35 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On 7/2/2011 1:43 PM, JimmyMac wrote:
I haven't been here in quite a while. With advanced (end state,
metastatic), clinical stage 4 prostate cancer, I've had to reassess my
priorities, put hings in perspective and frankly ARBR was not at the
top of the list. I have bigger fish to fry, so to speak. Regardless,
I see that little has changed here. The forum has lost many of it
members and is no longer about recumbent bicycles. ARBR has become
the sounding board and soap box of the Tibetan Monkey who arguably has
has far too much time on his hands. Even the crotchety Ed Dolan
appears to have had enough and departed for other forums. I've seen
this once useful forum hit the skids, degenerate and eventually rock
bottom. It has gone through a regressive evolution that is
unfortunate. Here are my thoughts in general regarding the Internet
forum life cycle of which ARBR is a prime example...

Like it or not, Internet forums commonly undergo an evolutionary
process regardless of whether they are moderated or unmoderated. The
natural life cycle of an Internet forum, with its various phases,
might be best summed up as follows:

1. Declaration of Enthusiasm - Subscribers introduce themselves and
gush over how wonderful it is to have encountered kindred spirits.

2. Origin of Evangelism - Participants moan about how the forum
consists of far too few members and brainstorming ensues to initiate
recruitment strategies.

3. Expansion of Community - An ever increasing number of interested
parties subscribe and contribute to the forum. Lengthy threads
develop (some more relevant than others).

4. Emergence of Camaraderie - Information and advice is exchanged
(some empirically founded ... some just anecdotal nonsense).
Friendships are forged. Members rib one another, but all in good
fun. New subscribers are welcomed and newbies. Both newcomers and
veterans alike are receptive to asking questions, providing answers,
and sharing experiences.

1998 to 2001

5. Genesis of Disenchantment - The volume of postings increases
dramatically. Not all threads are of interest to all participants.
Members pitch a bitch about signal-to-noise ratio, off-topic threads,
me too posts, forged and spoofed identities, forwarding of private
emails, and other violations of internet forum netiquette. Member #1
threatens to unsubscribe if things don't change for the better.
Member #2 aligns himself with Member #1. Member #3 disagrees with
both Members #1 and #2. Member #4 suggests that Members #1, #2, and
#3 should lighten up. Flame wars erupt and adversaries emerge.
Bandwidth is sacrificed as an abundance of postings proliferate in an
effort to resolve differences and restore some semblance of order.
During this particular phase, many a delete key gets more than its
share of abuse and filtering and killfiles are implemented.

The general attitude in the US after the false-flag attacks of Sept. 11,
2001 and the arrival of Ed Dolan [1].

6. Stagnation of Growth - The purists castigate members who ask an old
question or respond humorously to a serious post. Newcomers are
rebuffed and discouraged. SPAM posts, trolls and stalkers dominate
the forum. Traffic volume subsides considerably and is generally
confined to minor topics. Many relevant issues are communicated via
private emails. Some members turn in their membership cards in a huff
and the remaining members continue to participate in phases #4 and/or
#5 above.

Flight to the nanny forum.

7. Salvation from Destruction - Someone like me pounds away at the
keyboard composing a post such as this one in an effort to stir the
juices of those members who find themselves entrenched in the quagmire
of phase #4 and/or #5 above ... mostly #5 in hopes of resurection ;-)

People these days are not satisfied with plain text, despite Usenet
being my better to use than web-based forums.

Less is indeed more.

Well, at least this posting should prove to be a thought provoking
departure from the norm and hopefully sheds some light on the nature
of the beast we have come to love and hate ... the internet forum.
Perhaps I should have added a pahse nuber 8 (Fight of Forum), when
hope is abandoned, forum flight ensues and membership dwindles.


Most of the former posters seem happier in an environment when a
moderator steps in and squelches things at the first sign of spirited
discourse.

One cannot also ignore most ISPs dropping Usenet out of liability
concerns, which limits new participation, and is responsible for much of
the decline in Usenet. This was a foolish decision, as the binary
groups (containing "pr0n" and "warez") could have been dropped, while
retaining the text only groups.

[1] Cross-posted to rec.bicycles.soc, since it seems unfair to talk
about a person behind his back.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

JimmyMac July 5th 11 06:33 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 2, 1:43*pm, JimmyMac wrote:
I haven't been here in quite a while. *With advanced (end state,
metastatic), clinical stage 4 prostate cancer, I've had to reassess my
priorities, put hings in perspective and frankly ARBR was not at the
top of the list. *I have bigger fish to fry, so to speak. *Regardless,
I see that little has changed here. *The forum has lost many of it
members and is no longer about recumbent bicycles. *ARBR has become
the sounding board and soap box of the Tibetan Monkey who arguably has
has far too much time on his hands. *Even the crotchety Ed Dolan
appears to have had enough and departed for other forums. *I've seen
this once useful forum hit the skids, degenerate and eventually rock
bottom. *It has gone through a regressive evolution that is
unfortunate. *Here are my thoughts in general regarding the Internet
forum life cycle of which ARBR is a prime example...

Like it or not, Internet forums commonly undergo an evolutionary
process regardless of whether they are moderated or unmoderated. *The
natural life cycle of an Internet forum, with its various phases,
might be best summed up as follows:

1. Declaration of Enthusiasm - Subscribers introduce themselves and
gush over how wonderful it is to have encountered kindred spirits.

2. Origin of Evangelism - Participants moan about how the forum
consists of far too few members and brainstorming ensues to initiate
recruitment strategies.

3. Expansion of Community - An ever increasing number of interested
parties subscribe and contribute to the forum. *Lengthy threads
develop (some more relevant than others).

4. Emergence of Camaraderie - Information and advice is exchanged
(some empirically founded ... some just anecdotal nonsense).
Friendships are forged. *Members rib one another, but all in good
fun. *New subscribers are welcomed and newbies. *Both newcomers and
veterans alike are receptive to asking questions, providing answers,
and sharing experiences.

5. Genesis of Disenchantment - The volume of postings increases
dramatically. *Not all threads are of interest to all participants.
Members pitch a bitch about signal-to-noise ratio, off-topic *threads,
me too posts, forged and spoofed identities, forwarding of private
emails, and other violations of internet forum netiquette. *Member #1
threatens to unsubscribe if things don't change for the better.
Member #2 aligns himself with Member #1. *Member #3 disagrees with
both Members #1 and #2. *Member #4 suggests that Members #1, #2, and
#3 should lighten up. *Flame wars erupt and adversaries emerge.
Bandwidth is sacrificed as an abundance of postings proliferate in an
effort to resolve differences and restore some semblance of order.
During this particular phase, many a delete key gets more than its
share of abuse and filtering and killfiles are implemented.

6. Stagnation of Growth - The purists castigate members who ask an old
question or respond humorously to a serious post. *Newcomers are
rebuffed and discouraged. *SPAM posts, trolls and stalkers dominate
the forum. *Traffic volume subsides considerably and is generally
confined to minor topics. *Many relevant issues are communicated via
private emails. *Some members turn in their membership cards in a huff
and the remaining members continue to participate in phases #4 and/or
#5 above.

7. Salvation from Destruction - Someone like me pounds away at the
keyboard composing a post such as this one in an effort to stir the
juices of those members who find themselves entrenched in the quagmire
of phase #4 and/or #5 above ... mostly #5 *in hopes of ressurection ;-)

Well, at least this posting should prove to be a thought provoking
departure from the norm and hopefully sheds some light on the nature
of the beast we have come to love and hate ... the internet forum.
Perhaps I should have added a phase number 8 (Flight of Forum), when
hope is abandoned, forum flight ensues and membership dwindles.


Sorry about the typos in the last sentence above now corrected. - Jim
McNamara

JimmyMac July 5th 11 06:55 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 3, 2:35*pm, Tºm Shermªn °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 7/2/2011 1:43 PM, JimmyMac wrote:

I haven't been here in quite a while. *With advanced (end state,
metastatic), clinical stage 4 prostate cancer, I've had to reassess my
priorities, put hings in perspective and frankly ARBR was not at the
top of the list. *I have bigger fish to fry, so to speak. *Regardless,
I see that little has changed here. *The forum has lost many of it
members and is no longer about recumbent bicycles. *ARBR has become
the sounding board and soap box of the Tibetan Monkey who arguably has
has far too much time on his hands. *Even the crotchety Ed Dolan
appears to have had enough and departed for other forums. *I've seen
this once useful forum hit the skids, degenerate and eventually rock
bottom. *It has gone through a regressive evolution that is
unfortunate. *Here are my thoughts in general regarding the Internet
forum life cycle of which ARBR is a prime example...


Like it or not, Internet forums commonly undergo an evolutionary
process regardless of whether they are moderated or unmoderated. *The
natural life cycle of an Internet forum, with its various phases,
might be best summed up as follows:


1. Declaration of Enthusiasm - Subscribers introduce themselves and
gush over how wonderful it is to have encountered kindred spirits.


2. Origin of Evangelism - Participants moan about how the forum
consists of far too few members and brainstorming ensues to initiate
recruitment strategies.


3. Expansion of Community - An ever increasing number of interested
parties subscribe and contribute to the forum. *Lengthy threads
develop (some more relevant than others).


4. Emergence of Camaraderie - Information and advice is exchanged
(some empirically founded ... some just anecdotal nonsense).
Friendships are forged. *Members rib one another, but all in good
fun. *New subscribers are welcomed and newbies. *Both newcomers and
veterans alike are receptive to asking questions, providing answers,
and sharing experiences.


1998 to 2001

5. Genesis of Disenchantment - The volume of postings increases
dramatically. *Not all threads are of interest to all participants.
Members pitch a bitch about signal-to-noise ratio, off-topic *threads,
me too posts, forged and spoofed identities, forwarding of private
emails, and other violations of internet forum netiquette. *Member #1
threatens to unsubscribe if things don't change for the better.
Member #2 aligns himself with Member #1. *Member #3 disagrees with
both Members #1 and #2. *Member #4 suggests that Members #1, #2, and
#3 should lighten up. *Flame wars erupt and adversaries emerge.
Bandwidth is sacrificed as an abundance of postings proliferate in an
effort to resolve differences and restore some semblance of order.
During this particular phase, many a delete key gets more than its
share of abuse and filtering and killfiles are implemented.


The general attitude in the US after the false-flag attacks of Sept. 11,
2001 and the arrival of Ed Dolan [1].

6. Stagnation of Growth - The purists castigate members who ask an old
question or respond humorously to a serious post. *Newcomers are
rebuffed and discouraged. *SPAM posts, trolls and stalkers dominate
the forum. *Traffic volume subsides considerably and is generally
confined to minor topics. *Many relevant issues are communicated via
private emails. *Some members turn in their membership cards in a huff
and the remaining members continue to participate in phases #4 and/or
#5 above.


Flight to the nanny forum.

7. Salvation from Destruction - Someone like me pounds away at the
keyboard composing a post such as this one in an effort to stir the
juices of those members who find themselves entrenched in the quagmire
of phase #4 and/or #5 above ... mostly #5 *in hopes of resurrection ;-)


People these days are not satisfied with plain text, despite Usenet
being my better to use than web-based forums.

Less is indeed more.

Well, at least this posting should prove to be a thought provoking
departure from the norm and hopefully sheds some light on the nature
of the beast we have come to love and hate ... the internet forum.
Perhaps I should have added a phase number 8 (Flight of Forum), when
hope is abandoned, forum flight ensues and membership dwindles.


Most of the former posters seem happier in an environment when a
moderator steps in and squelches things at the first sign of spirited
discourse.

One cannot also ignore most ISPs dropping Usenet out of liability
concerns, which limits new participation, and is responsible for much of
the decline in Usenet. *This was a foolish decision, as the binary
groups (containing "pr0n" and "warez") could have been dropped, while
retaining the text only groups.

[1] Cross-posted to rec.bicycles.soc, since it seems unfair to talk
about a person behind his back.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.


Tom - I'm a bit surprised that only you replied. Typos from my
previous post corrected here. - Jim.


JimmyMac July 5th 11 06:59 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 5, 12:33*pm, JimmyMac wrote:
On Jul 2, 1:43*pm, JimmyMac wrote:



I haven't been here in quite a while. *With advanced (end state,
metastatic), clinical stage 4 prostate cancer, I've had to reassess my
priorities, put hings in perspective and frankly ARBR was not at the
top of the list. *I have bigger fish to fry, so to speak. *Regardless,
I see that little has changed here. *The forum has lost many of it
members and is no longer about recumbent bicycles. *ARBR has become
the sounding board and soap box of the Tibetan Monkey who arguably has
has far too much time on his hands. *Even the crotchety Ed Dolan
appears to have had enough and departed for other forums. *I've seen
this once useful forum hit the skids, degenerate and eventually rock
bottom. *It has gone through a regressive evolution that is
unfortunate. *Here are my thoughts in general regarding the Internet
forum life cycle of which ARBR is a prime example...


Like it or not, Internet forums commonly undergo an evolutionary
process regardless of whether they are moderated or unmoderated. *The
natural life cycle of an Internet forum, with its various phases,
might be best summed up as follows:


1. Declaration of Enthusiasm - Subscribers introduce themselves and
gush over how wonderful it is to have encountered kindred spirits.


2. Origin of Evangelism - Participants moan about how the forum
consists of far too few members and brainstorming ensues to initiate
recruitment strategies.


3. Expansion of Community - An ever increasing number of interested
parties subscribe and contribute to the forum. *Lengthy threads
develop (some more relevant than others).


4. Emergence of Camaraderie - Information and advice is exchanged
(some empirically founded ... some just anecdotal nonsense).
Friendships are forged. *Members rib one another, but all in good
fun. *New subscribers are welcomed and newbies. *Both newcomers and
veterans alike are receptive to asking questions, providing answers,
and sharing experiences.


5. Genesis of Disenchantment - The volume of postings increases
dramatically. *Not all threads are of interest to all participants.
Members pitch a bitch about signal-to-noise ratio, off-topic *threads,
me too posts, forged and spoofed identities, forwarding of private
emails, and other violations of internet forum netiquette. *Member #1
threatens to unsubscribe if things don't change for the better.
Member #2 aligns himself with Member #1. *Member #3 disagrees with
both Members #1 and #2. *Member #4 suggests that Members #1, #2, and
#3 should lighten up. *Flame wars erupt and adversaries emerge.
Bandwidth is sacrificed as an abundance of postings proliferate in an
effort to resolve differences and restore some semblance of order.
During this particular phase, many a delete key gets more than its
share of abuse and filtering and killfiles are implemented.


6. Stagnation of Growth - The purists castigate members who ask an old
question or respond humorously to a serious post. *Newcomers are
rebuffed and discouraged. *SPAM posts, trolls and stalkers dominate
the forum. *Traffic volume subsides considerably and is generally
confined to minor topics. *Many relevant issues are communicated via
private emails. *Some members turn in their membership cards in a huff
and the remaining members continue to participate in phases #4 and/or
#5 above.


7. Salvation from Destruction - Someone like me pounds away at the
keyboard composing a post such as this one in an effort to stir the
juices of those members who find themselves entrenched in the quagmire
of phase #4 and/or #5 above ... mostly #5 *in hopes of resurrection ;-)


Well, at least this posting should prove to be a thought provoking
departure from the norm and hopefully sheds some light on the nature
of the beast we have come to love and hate ... the internet forum.
Perhaps I should have added a phase number 8 (Flight of Forum), when
hope is abandoned, forum flight ensues and membership dwindles.


Sorry about the typos in my initial post, now fully corrected (I hope) . *- Jim McNamara



ATP July 5th 11 11:42 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Jul 3, 2:35 pm, Tºm Shermªn °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 7/2/2011 1:43 PM, JimmyMac wrote:

I haven't been here in quite a while. With advanced (end state,
metastatic), clinical stage 4 prostate cancer, I've had to reassess my
priorities, put hings in perspective and frankly ARBR was not at the
top of the list. I have bigger fish to fry, so to speak. Regardless,
I see that little has changed here. The forum has lost many of it
members and is no longer about recumbent bicycles. ARBR has become
the sounding board and soap box of the Tibetan Monkey who arguably has
has far too much time on his hands. Even the crotchety Ed Dolan
appears to have had enough and departed for other forums. I've seen
this once useful forum hit the skids, degenerate and eventually rock
bottom. It has gone through a regressive evolution that is
unfortunate. Here are my thoughts in general regarding the Internet
forum life cycle of which ARBR is a prime example...


Like it or not, Internet forums commonly undergo an evolutionary
process regardless of whether they are moderated or unmoderated. The
natural life cycle of an Internet forum, with its various phases,
might be best summed up as follows:


1. Declaration of Enthusiasm - Subscribers introduce themselves and
gush over how wonderful it is to have encountered kindred spirits.


2. Origin of Evangelism - Participants moan about how the forum
consists of far too few members and brainstorming ensues to initiate
recruitment strategies.


3. Expansion of Community - An ever increasing number of interested
parties subscribe and contribute to the forum. Lengthy threads
develop (some more relevant than others).


4. Emergence of Camaraderie - Information and advice is exchanged
(some empirically founded ... some just anecdotal nonsense).
Friendships are forged. Members rib one another, but all in good
fun. New subscribers are welcomed and newbies. Both newcomers and
veterans alike are receptive to asking questions, providing answers,
and sharing experiences.


1998 to 2001

5. Genesis of Disenchantment - The volume of postings increases
dramatically. Not all threads are of interest to all participants.
Members pitch a bitch about signal-to-noise ratio, off-topic threads,
me too posts, forged and spoofed identities, forwarding of private
emails, and other violations of internet forum netiquette. Member #1
threatens to unsubscribe if things don't change for the better.
Member #2 aligns himself with Member #1. Member #3 disagrees with
both Members #1 and #2. Member #4 suggests that Members #1, #2, and
#3 should lighten up. Flame wars erupt and adversaries emerge.
Bandwidth is sacrificed as an abundance of postings proliferate in an
effort to resolve differences and restore some semblance of order.
During this particular phase, many a delete key gets more than its
share of abuse and filtering and killfiles are implemented.


The general attitude in the US after the false-flag attacks of Sept. 11,
2001 and the arrival of Ed Dolan [1].

6. Stagnation of Growth - The purists castigate members who ask an old
question or respond humorously to a serious post. Newcomers are
rebuffed and discouraged. SPAM posts, trolls and stalkers dominate
the forum. Traffic volume subsides considerably and is generally
confined to minor topics. Many relevant issues are communicated via
private emails. Some members turn in their membership cards in a huff
and the remaining members continue to participate in phases #4 and/or
#5 above.


Flight to the nanny forum.

7. Salvation from Destruction - Someone like me pounds away at the
keyboard composing a post such as this one in an effort to stir the
juices of those members who find themselves entrenched in the quagmire
of phase #4 and/or #5 above ... mostly #5 in hopes of resurrection ;-)


People these days are not satisfied with plain text, despite Usenet
being my better to use than web-based forums.

Less is indeed more.

Well, at least this posting should prove to be a thought provoking
departure from the norm and hopefully sheds some light on the nature
of the beast we have come to love and hate ... the internet forum.
Perhaps I should have added a phase number 8 (Flight of Forum), when
hope is abandoned, forum flight ensues and membership dwindles.


Most of the former posters seem happier in an environment when a
moderator steps in and squelches things at the first sign of spirited
discourse.

One cannot also ignore most ISPs dropping Usenet out of liability
concerns, which limits new participation, and is responsible for much of
the decline in Usenet. This was a foolish decision, as the binary
groups (containing "pr0n" and "warez") could have been dropped, while
retaining the text only groups.

[1] Cross-posted to rec.bicycles.soc, since it seems unfair to talk
about a person behind his back.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.


Tom - I'm a bit surprised that only you replied. Typos from my
previous post corrected here. - Jim.

I read it, agree with Tom, the same can be said of most Usenet groups. Good
wishes on your health issues.

Mike



Edward Dolan July 6th 11 04:47 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
[...]

Tom - I'm a bit surprised that only you replied. Typos from my

previous post corrected here. - Jim.

I responded at length, but it apparently disappeared into cyber space. The
computer, the Internet and Usenet are all terribly flawed and I can't be
bothered repeating my words of wisdom because of a ****ed-up technology.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Tºm Shermªn °_° July 6th 11 04:53 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On 7/5/2011 10:47 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
[...]

Tom - I'm a bit surprised that only you replied. Typos from my

previous post corrected here. - Jim.

I responded at length, but it apparently disappeared into cyber space. The
computer, the Internet and Usenet are all terribly flawed and I can't be
bothered repeating my words of wisdom because of a ****ed-up technology.

Look in your "Sent" and "Drafts" email folders.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Edward Dolan July 6th 11 01:14 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"Tºm Shermªn °_°" " wrote in message
...
On 7/5/2011 10:47 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
[...]

Tom - I'm a bit surprised that only you replied. Typos from my

previous post corrected here. - Jim.

I responded at length, but it apparently disappeared into cyber space.
The
computer, the Internet and Usenet are all terribly flawed and I can't be
bothered repeating my words of wisdom because of a ****ed-up technology.

Look in your "Sent" and "Drafts" email folders.


It was "Sent", so why did not Jim McNamara see it? If you saw it, why not
say so instead of being so cryptic?

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



JimmyMac July 6th 11 05:25 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 5, 5:42*pm, "ATP" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Jul 3, 2:35 pm, Tºm Shermªn °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI



$southslope.net" wrote:
On 7/2/2011 1:43 PM, JimmyMac wrote:


I haven't been here in quite a while. With advanced (end state,
metastatic), clinical stage 4 prostate cancer, I've had to reassess my
priorities, put hings in perspective and frankly ARBR was not at the
top of the list. I have bigger fish to fry, so to speak. Regardless,
I see that little has changed here. The forum has lost many of it
members and is no longer about recumbent bicycles. ARBR has become
the sounding board and soap box of the Tibetan Monkey who arguably has
has far too much time on his hands. Even the crotchety Ed Dolan
appears to have had enough and departed for other forums. I've seen
this once useful forum hit the skids, degenerate and eventually rock
bottom. It has gone through a regressive evolution that is
unfortunate. Here are my thoughts in general regarding the Internet
forum life cycle of which ARBR is a prime example...


Like it or not, Internet forums commonly undergo an evolutionary
process regardless of whether they are moderated or unmoderated. The
natural life cycle of an Internet forum, with its various phases,
might be best summed up as follows:


1. Declaration of Enthusiasm - Subscribers introduce themselves and
gush over how wonderful it is to have encountered kindred spirits.


2. Origin of Evangelism - Participants moan about how the forum
consists of far too few members and brainstorming ensues to initiate
recruitment strategies.


3. Expansion of Community - An ever increasing number of interested
parties subscribe and contribute to the forum. Lengthy threads
develop (some more relevant than others).


4. Emergence of Camaraderie - Information and advice is exchanged
(some empirically founded ... some just anecdotal nonsense).
Friendships are forged. Members rib one another, but all in good
fun. New subscribers are welcomed and newbies. Both newcomers and
veterans alike are receptive to asking questions, providing answers,
and sharing experiences.


1998 to 2001


5. Genesis of Disenchantment - The volume of postings increases
dramatically. Not all threads are of interest to all participants.
Members pitch a bitch about signal-to-noise ratio, off-topic threads,
me too posts, forged and spoofed identities, forwarding of private
emails, and other violations of internet forum netiquette. Member #1
threatens to unsubscribe if things don't change for the better.
Member #2 aligns himself with Member #1. Member #3 disagrees with
both Members #1 and #2. Member #4 suggests that Members #1, #2, and
#3 should lighten up. Flame wars erupt and adversaries emerge.
Bandwidth is sacrificed as an abundance of postings proliferate in an
effort to resolve differences and restore some semblance of order.
During this particular phase, many a delete key gets more than its
share of abuse and filtering and killfiles are implemented.


The general attitude in the US after the false-flag attacks of Sept. 11,
2001 and the arrival of Ed Dolan [1].


6. Stagnation of Growth - The purists castigate members who ask an old
question or respond humorously to a serious post. Newcomers are
rebuffed and discouraged. SPAM posts, trolls and stalkers dominate
the forum. Traffic volume subsides considerably and is generally
confined to minor topics. Many relevant issues are communicated via
private emails. Some members turn in their membership cards in a huff
and the remaining members continue to participate in phases #4 and/or
#5 above.


Flight to the nanny forum.


7. Salvation from Destruction - Someone like me pounds away at the
keyboard composing a post such as this one in an effort to stir the
juices of those members who find themselves entrenched in the quagmire
of phase #4 and/or #5 above ... mostly #5 in hopes of resurrection ;-)


People these days are not satisfied with plain text, despite Usenet
being my better to use than web-based forums.


Less is indeed more.


Well, at least this posting should prove to be a thought provoking
departure from the norm and hopefully sheds some light on the nature
of the beast we have come to love and hate ... the internet forum.
Perhaps I should have added a phase number 8 (Flight of Forum), when
hope is abandoned, forum flight ensues and membership dwindles.


Most of the former posters seem happier in an environment when a
moderator steps in and squelches things at the first sign of spirited
discourse.


One cannot also ignore most ISPs dropping Usenet out of liability
concerns, which limits new participation, and is responsible for much of
the decline in Usenet. This was a foolish decision, as the binary
groups (containing "pr0n" and "warez") could have been dropped, while
retaining the text only groups.


[1] Cross-posted to rec.bicycles.soc, since it seems unfair to talk
about a person behind his back.


--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.


Tom - I'm a bit surprised that only you replied. *Typos from my
previous post corrected here. - Jim.

I read it, agree with Tom, the same can be said of most Usenet groups. Good
wishes on your health issues.

Mike



Thanks for the well wishing, Mike. I've come a long way since being
diagnosed and I am now in a much better place than I was just a few
months back. Unfortunately, prostate cancer becomes much more likely
as the age. Primates who share 99.9% of our DNA and are vegetarians
don't get prostate cancer. Canines in the wild don't get prostate
cancer. The only mammal known to get a significant amount of prostate
cancer is the dog, and who makes their food and feeds them table
scraps? Japanese men rarely get prostate cancer, but when they move
to places like Hawaii and California and change to consuming a Western
diet, their male born children get the same amount of prostate cancer
as other native born males. OK, this is all anecdotal but the
evidence strongly suggests that there is a correlation between diet
and the disease. If you or anyone else would care to read the details
of my complete story, it can be found posted here...

http://www.prostate.net/2011/survivo...-side-effects/

Jim McNamara

Tºm Shermªn °_° July 6th 11 06:18 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On 7/6/2011 7:14 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
"T�m Sherm�n " wrote in message
...
On 7/5/2011 10:47 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
[...]

Tom - I'm a bit surprised that only you replied. Typos from my
previous post corrected here. - Jim.

I responded at length, but it apparently disappeared into cyber space.
The
computer, the Internet and Usenet are all terribly flawed and I can't be
bothered repeating my words of wisdom because of a ****ed-up technology.

Look in your "Sent" and "Drafts" email folders.


It was "Sent", so why did not Jim McNamara see it? If you saw it, why not
say so instead of being so cryptic?


I did not see the post in question. However, most email program save a
copy of the message in a "Sent" or "Drafts" folder on your hard drive
(accessible through your email program) when you send a message (some
divert the message to "Drafts" if sending fails, others put the copy of
the message in "Sent" in all cases).

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Edward Dolan July 6th 11 06:25 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
[...]
Thanks for the well wishing, Mike. I've come a long way since being

diagnosed and I am now in a much better place than I was just a few
months back. Unfortunately, prostate cancer becomes much more likely
as the age. Primates who share 99.9% of our DNA and are vegetarians
don't get prostate cancer. Canines in the wild don't get prostate
cancer. The only mammal known to get a significant amount of prostate
cancer is the dog, and who makes their food and feeds them table
scraps? Japanese men rarely get prostate cancer, but when they move
to places like Hawaii and California and change to consuming a Western
diet, their male born children get the same amount of prostate cancer
as other native born males. OK, this is all anecdotal but the
evidence strongly suggests that there is a correlation between diet
and the disease. If you or anyone else would care to read the details
of my complete story, it can be found posted here...

http://www.prostate.net/2011/survivo...-side-effects/


Jim McNamara


The Western diet has been a disaster for my entire lifetime and it keeps on
getting worse ever year. Unfortunately, the rest of the world aspires to our
diet if and when they can ever afford it.

Every American male over the age of about 50 should have a PSA test every
year to check for prostate cancer. It is easily cured if caught early,
although there are no good treatments for it without complications.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Edward Dolan July 6th 11 06:45 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"Tºm Shermªn °_°" " wrote in message
...
On 7/2/2011 1:43 PM, JimmyMac wrote:

[...]
Like it or not, Internet forums commonly undergo an evolutionary
process regardless of whether they are moderated or unmoderated. The
natural life cycle of an Internet forum, with its various phases,
might be best summed up as follows:

1. Declaration of Enthusiasm - Subscribers introduce themselves and
gush over how wonderful it is to have encountered kindred spirits.

2. Origin of Evangelism - Participants moan about how the forum
consists of far too few members and brainstorming ensues to initiate
recruitment strategies.

3. Expansion of Community - An ever increasing number of interested
parties subscribe and contribute to the forum. Lengthy threads
develop (some more relevant than others).

4. Emergence of Camaraderie - Information and advice is exchanged
(some empirically founded ... some just anecdotal nonsense).
Friendships are forged. Members rib one another, but all in good
fun. New subscribers are welcomed and newbies. Both newcomers and
veterans alike are receptive to asking questions, providing answers,
and sharing experiences.

1998 to 2001


The above will never occur again on ANY forums. The computer, the Internet
and Usenet are now old and tired and we are all disillusioned and revolted
to say the least.

5. Genesis of Disenchantment - The volume of postings increases
dramatically. Not all threads are of interest to all participants.
Members pitch a bitch about signal-to-noise ratio, off-topic threads,
me too posts, forged and spoofed identities, forwarding of private
emails, and other violations of internet forum netiquette. Member #1
threatens to unsubscribe if things don't change for the better.
Member #2 aligns himself with Member #1. Member #3 disagrees with
both Members #1 and #2. Member #4 suggests that Members #1, #2, and
#3 should lighten up. Flame wars erupt and adversaries emerge.
Bandwidth is sacrificed as an abundance of postings proliferate in an
effort to resolve differences and restore some semblance of order.
During this particular phase, many a delete key gets more than its
share of abuse and filtering and killfiles are implemented.

The general attitude in the US after the false-flag attacks of Sept. 11,
2001 and the arrival of Ed Dolan [1].

6. Stagnation of Growth - The purists castigate members who ask an old
question or respond humorously to a serious post. Newcomers are
rebuffed and discouraged. SPAM posts, trolls and stalkers dominate
the forum. Traffic volume subsides considerably and is generally
confined to minor topics. Many relevant issues are communicated via
private emails. Some members turn in their membership cards in a huff
and the remaining members continue to participate in phases #4 and/or
#5 above.

Flight to the nanny forum.


Phases 5 and 6 is all I have ever known.

7. Salvation from Destruction - Someone like me pounds away at the
keyboard composing a post such as this one in an effort to stir the
juices of those members who find themselves entrenched in the quagmire
of phase #4 and/or #5 above ... mostly #5 in hopes of resurection ;-)


No resurrection is possible since everyone is old and tired, disgusted,
disillusioned and revolted.

People these days are not satisfied with plain text, despite Usenet being
my better to use than web-based forums.

Less is indeed more.

Well, at least this posting should prove to be a thought provoking
departure from the norm and hopefully sheds some light on the nature
of the beast we have come to love and hate ... the internet forum.
Perhaps I should have added a pahse nuber 8 (Fight of Forum), when
hope is abandoned, forum flight ensues and membership dwindles.


Most of the former posters seem happier in an environment when a moderator
steps in and squelches things at the first sign of spirited discourse.

One cannot also ignore most ISPs dropping Usenet out of liability
concerns, which limits new participation, and is responsible for much of
the decline in Usenet. This was a foolish decision, as the binary groups
(containing "pr0n" and "warez") could have been dropped, while retaining
the text only groups.

[1] Cross-posted to rec.bicycles.soc, since it seems unfair to talk about
a person behind his back.


ARBR was always a small group and TM ruined what was left of it with his
nonsense. I only monitor RBS now since Mr. Vandeman posts to this group.
Between the two of us we manage to keep the mountain bikers off balance. Mr.
Sherman is also kind enough to post to RBS which means I continue to have
the pleasure of kicking his dumb ass.

Life is good!

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Edward Dolan July 6th 11 07:08 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"Tºm Shermªn °_°" " wrote in message
...
On 7/2/2011 1:43 PM, JimmyMac wrote:

[...]
5. Genesis of Disenchantment - The volume of postings increases
dramatically. Not all threads are of interest to all participants.
Members pitch a bitch about signal-to-noise ratio, off-topic threads,
me too posts, forged and spoofed identities, forwarding of private
emails, and other violations of internet forum netiquette. Member #1
threatens to unsubscribe if things don't change for the better.
Member #2 aligns himself with Member #1. Member #3 disagrees with
both Members #1 and #2. Member #4 suggests that Members #1, #2, and
#3 should lighten up. Flame wars erupt and adversaries emerge.
Bandwidth is sacrificed as an abundance of postings proliferate in an
effort to resolve differences and restore some semblance of order.
During this particular phase, many a delete key gets more than its
share of abuse and filtering and killfiles are implemented.

The general attitude in the US after the false-flag attacks of Sept. 11,
2001 and the arrival of Ed Dolan [1].


When I first came to ARBR it was a hotbed of liberal political posts which
mainly went unchallenged. Once I challenged those posts, things rapidly went
to Hell. Liberals do not know how to take ****; they only know how to give
****.

Tom Sherman was only half on-topic in those days. He was half off-topic with
his liberal political screeds. But even so, ARBR was destroyed by Ed Gin and
Associates, criminal vandal trolls whom no one had the stomach to fight
except for Jim McNamara and myself. Small newsgroups are easily destroyed by
criminal vandal trolls, most especially when others of the group have no
guts to fight the good fight. When good men do nothing, evil men prevail.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Tºm Shermªn °_° July 7th 11 07:02 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On 7/6/2011 12:25 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
[...]
Thanks for the well wishing, Mike. I've come a long way since being

diagnosed and I am now in a much better place than I was just a few
months back. Unfortunately, prostate cancer becomes much more likely
as the age. Primates who share 99.9% of our DNA and are vegetarians
don't get prostate cancer. Canines in the wild don't get prostate
cancer. The only mammal known to get a significant amount of prostate
cancer is the dog, and who makes their food and feeds them table
scraps? Japanese men rarely get prostate cancer, but when they move
to places like Hawaii and California and change to consuming a Western
diet, their male born children get the same amount of prostate cancer
as other native born males. OK, this is all anecdotal but the
evidence strongly suggests that there is a correlation between diet
and the disease. If you or anyone else would care to read the details
of my complete story, it can be found posted here...

http://www.prostate.net/2011/survivo...-side-effects/


Jim McNamara


The Western diet has been a disaster for my entire lifetime and it keeps on
getting worse ever year. Unfortunately, the rest of the world aspires to our
diet if and when they can ever afford it.

Indeed. I have stopped eating [1] highly processed foods and have
minimized intake of refined carbohydrates, meat [2] and dairy products.
A few months will tell if my cholesterol and blood glucose levels
improve. I also try to consume adequate amounts of dihydrogen monoxide.

There is not enough grain raised in the world for everyone in China
alone, much less 7 billion plus, to eat as much meat per capita as
USians do. In most places meat is more of a condiment than a staple.

The only other primates to eat meat are chimpanzees, and it is only a
small part of their diet, monkeys [3] being hard to catch and kill.
However, it is valued enough that male chimpanzees will give meat to
females in exchange for sex.

[1] Unless social circumstances dictate otherwise.
[2] Free range and fish only.
[3] Chimpanzees have been known to steal and eat human babies [4], which
typically ends up in the chimpanzee being hunted down and killed in
short order.
[4] Or parts of adult humans, in a few cases of morons [5] who keep them
as pets.
[5] Yes, I think I will get an animal that will grow to 150 to 200
pounds, be 3 to 5 times as strong as a human with jaws that can bite
through bone, have near human intelligence, and will be naturally
agressive (and sexually frustrated) as a pet.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

ATP July 7th 11 11:54 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 

"Tºm Shermªn °_°" " wrote in message
...
On 7/6/2011 12:25 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
[...]
Thanks for the well wishing, Mike. I've come a long way since being

diagnosed and I am now in a much better place than I was just a few
months back. Unfortunately, prostate cancer becomes much more likely
as the age. Primates who share 99.9% of our DNA and are vegetarians
don't get prostate cancer. Canines in the wild don't get prostate
cancer. The only mammal known to get a significant amount of prostate
cancer is the dog, and who makes their food and feeds them table
scraps? Japanese men rarely get prostate cancer, but when they move
to places like Hawaii and California and change to consuming a Western
diet, their male born children get the same amount of prostate cancer
as other native born males. OK, this is all anecdotal but the
evidence strongly suggests that there is a correlation between diet
and the disease. If you or anyone else would care to read the details
of my complete story, it can be found posted here...

http://www.prostate.net/2011/survivo...-side-effects/


Jim McNamara


The Western diet has been a disaster for my entire lifetime and it keeps
on
getting worse ever year. Unfortunately, the rest of the world aspires to
our
diet if and when they can ever afford it.

Indeed. I have stopped eating [1] highly processed foods and have
minimized intake of refined carbohydrates, meat [2] and dairy products. A
few months will tell if my cholesterol and blood glucose levels improve.
I also try to consume adequate amounts of dihydrogen monoxide.

There is not enough grain raised in the world for everyone in China alone,
much less 7 billion plus, to eat as much meat per capita as USians do. In
most places meat is more of a condiment than a staple.

The only other primates to eat meat are chimpanzees, and it is only a
small part of their diet, monkeys [3] being hard to catch and kill.
However, it is valued enough that male chimpanzees will give meat to
females in exchange for sex.

[1] Unless social circumstances dictate otherwise.
[2] Free range and fish only.
[3] Chimpanzees have been known to steal and eat human babies [4], which
typically ends up in the chimpanzee being hunted down and killed in short
order.
[4] Or parts of adult humans, in a few cases of morons [5] who keep them
as pets.


Although surgeons recently reattached Charla's face- reportedly with Gorilla
Glue...........



Edward Dolan July 7th 11 03:27 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"Tºm Shermªn °_°" " wrote in message
...
On 7/6/2011 12:25 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
The Western diet has been a disaster for my entire lifetime and it keeps
on
getting worse ever year. Unfortunately, the rest of the world aspires to
our
diet if and when they can ever afford it.

Indeed. I have stopped eating [1] highly processed foods and have
minimized intake of refined carbohydrates, meat [2] and dairy products. A
few months will tell if my cholesterol and blood glucose levels improve.
I also try to consume adequate amounts of dihydrogen monoxide.


The average American will never be able to modify their diet like you have.
Even so, it may not make any difference. It has not been proven that diet
has anything to do with prostate cancer.

There is not enough grain raised in the world for everyone in China alone,
much less 7 billion plus, to eat as much meat per capita as USians do. In
most places meat is more of a condiment than a staple.


I think all humans would like to consume more meat. The only thing that
prevents it is a scarcity of resources.

All early human cultures (before agriculture) were based on hunting and
gathering. I don't think it can be argued that humans were ever like some
other primates who are strictly vegetarians.

The only other primates to eat meat are chimpanzees, and it is only a
small part of their diet, monkeys [3] being hard to catch and kill.
However, it is valued enough that male chimpanzees will give meat to
females in exchange for sex.

[1] Unless social circumstances dictate otherwise.
[2] Free range and fish only.
[3] Chimpanzees have been known to steal and eat human babies [4], which
typically ends up in the chimpanzee being hunted down and killed in short
order.
[4] Or parts of adult humans, in a few cases of morons [5] who keep them
as pets.
[5] Yes, I think I will get an animal that will grow to 150 to 200 pounds,
be 3 to 5 times as strong as a human with jaws that can bite through bone,
have near human intelligence, and will be naturally agressive (and
sexually frustrated) as a pet.


If we want to keep a pet, a dog or cat should do just fine. I suggest
limiting them however to just a few. No one in this world needs as many cats
as I have.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Tºm Shermªn °_° July 8th 11 05:08 AM

OT - Felis Catus
 
On 7/7/2011 9:27 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
If we want to keep a pet, a dog or cat should do just fine. I suggest
limiting them however to just a few. No one in this world needs as many cats
as I have.


Two barely leave me enough space in the bed to sleep.

Here is an excellent example of sleeping with cats:
http://www.thecatshouse.com/sleep/index.html.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Edward Dolan July 8th 11 07:31 PM

OT - Felis Catus
 
"Tºm Shermªn °_°" " wrote in message
...
On 7/7/2011 9:27 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
If we want to keep a pet, a dog or cat should do just fine. I suggest
limiting them however to just a few. No one in this world needs as many
cats
as I have.


Two barely leave me enough space in the bed to sleep.

Here is an excellent example of sleeping with cats:
http://www.thecatshouse.com/sleep/index.html.


My cats are confined to certain areas of the house and do not include my
bedroom!

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



JimmyMac July 8th 11 09:55 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 7, 1:02*am, Tºm Shermªn °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 7/6/2011 12:25 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:

*wrote in message
....
[...]
Thanks for the well wishing, Mike. *I've come a long way since being

diagnosed and I am now in a much better place than I was just a few
months back. *Unfortunately, prostate cancer becomes much more likely
as the age. *Primates who share 99.9% of our DNA and are vegetarians
don't get prostate cancer. *Canines in the wild don't get prostate
cancer. *The only mammal known to get a significant amount of prostate
cancer is the dog, and who makes their food and feeds them table
scraps? *Japanese men rarely get prostate cancer, but when they move
to places like Hawaii and California and change to consuming a Western
diet, their male born children get the same amount of prostate cancer
as other native born males. *OK, this is all anecdotal but the
evidence strongly suggests that there is a correlation between diet
and the disease. *If you or anyone else would care to read the details
of my complete story, it can be found posted here...


http://www.prostate.net/2011/survivo...ara-hormone-th....


Jim McNamara


The Western diet has been a disaster for my entire lifetime and it keeps on
getting worse ever year. Unfortunately, the rest of the world aspires to our
diet if and when they can ever afford it.


Indeed. *I have stopped eating [1] highly processed foods and have
minimized intake of refined carbohydrates, meat [2] and dairy products.
* A few months will tell if my cholesterol and blood glucose levels
improve. *I also try to consume adequate amounts of dihydrogen monoxide..

There is not enough grain raised in the world for everyone in China
alone, much less 7 billion plus, to eat as much meat per capita as
USians do. *In most places meat is more of a condiment than a staple.

The only other primates to eat meat are chimpanzees, and it is only a
small part of their diet, monkeys [3] being hard to catch and kill.
However, it is valued enough that male chimpanzees will give meat to
females in exchange for sex.

[1] Unless social circumstances dictate otherwise.
[2] Free range and fish only.
[3] Chimpanzees have been known to steal and eat human babies [4], which
typically ends up in the chimpanzee being hunted down and killed in
short order.
[4] Or parts of adult humans, in a few cases of morons [5] who keep them
as pets.
[5] Yes, I think I will get an animal that will grow to 150 to 200
pounds, be 3 to 5 times as strong as a human with jaws that can bite
through bone, have near human intelligence, and will be naturally
agressive (and sexually frustrated) as a pet.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.


Tom, if you read my posted link, you will note that you are eating
somewhat along the lines that I do, although I may be a bit more
strict about it. I failed to make note of the meat eating primate ...
the chimp, since they stans out as an exception, but right you are
regarding our observations.

JimmyMac July 8th 11 10:29 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 7, 9:27*am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"T m Sherm n _ " " wrote in ...

On 7/6/2011 12:25 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
The Western diet has been a disaster for my entire lifetime and it keeps
on
getting worse ever year. Unfortunately, the rest of the world aspires to
our
diet if and when they can ever afford it.


Indeed. *I have stopped eating [1] highly processed foods and have
minimized intake of refined carbohydrates, meat [2] and dairy products. A
few months will tell if my cholesterol and blood glucose levels improve..
I also try to consume adequate amounts of dihydrogen monoxide.


The average American will never be able to modify their diet like you have.


I guess I'm not average then as I have.

Even so, it may not make any difference. It has not been proven that diet
has anything to do with prostate cancer.


Has it been disproved? It has been proven that can activate
deactivate genes that cause prostate cancer and the anecdotal and
statistical evidence is overwhelming that diet is certainly a factor
linked to prostate cancer.

There is not enough grain raised in the world for everyone in China alone,
much less 7 billion plus, to eat as much meat per capita as USians do. *In
most places meat is more of a condiment than a staple.


I think all humans would like to consume more meat. The only thing that
prevents it is a scarcity of resources.


Ed, you really should to stop using the emphatically inclusive "ALL"
when not applicable. Surely it is a given that vegetarians and vegans
are humans who have chosen not to consume meat. Your conclusion does
not follow from your premise (logical fallacy - non sequitor).
Scarcity of resource is not the ONLY thing the prevent ALL humans from
consuming more meat. You are disregarding the matter of conscious
choice not to consume meat. Some humans have no such desire.

All early human cultures (before agriculture) were based on hunting and
gathering. I don't think it can be argued that humans were ever like some
other primates who are strictly vegetarians.


I don't believe that either Tom or myself implied that. Since you
brought the topic up though, back then we got exercise hunting game
instead of driving to the butcher and animals roamed freely eating
natural substance rather than genetically modified feed grown in
fields where herbicides and pesticides are employed. Hormones and
antibiotics had yet to be invented that are found in the meat we
consume and these are all reason enough to consider how much meat one
consumes. There are more reasons, but don't even get me started.

The only other primates to eat meat are chimpanzees, and it is only a
small part of their diet, monkeys [3] being hard to catch and kill.
However, it is valued enough that male chimpanzees will give meat to
females in exchange for sex.


[1] Unless social circumstances dictate otherwise.
[2] Free range and fish only.
[3] Chimpanzees have been known to steal and eat human babies [4], which
typically ends up in the chimpanzee being hunted down and killed in short
order.
[4] Or parts of adult humans, in a few cases of morons [5] who keep them
as pets.
[5] Yes, I think I will get an animal that will grow to 150 to 200 pounds,
be 3 to 5 times as strong as a human with jaws that can bite through bone,
have near human intelligence, and will be naturally agressive (and
sexually frustrated) as a pet.


If we want to keep a pet, a dog or cat should do just fine. I suggest
limiting them however to just a few. No one in this world needs as many cats
as I have.


As for dogs, two is a good idea, since they're pack animals. Cats are
not pack animals, so more that one is unnecessary. Multiples qualify
your house as a cat house ;^)

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Edward Dolan July 8th 11 11:42 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Jul 7, 9:27 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

Even so, it may not make any difference. It has not been proven that diet
has anything to do with prostate cancer.


Has it been disproved? It has been proven that can activate

deactivate genes that cause prostate cancer and the anecdotal and
statistical evidence is overwhelming that diet is certainly a factor
linked to prostate cancer.

I never place any confidence in anecdotal 'evidence'. Even statistical
'evidence ' is highly suspect. Either do the science or forget about it.

Tom Sherman wrote:

There is not enough grain raised in the world for everyone in China
alone,
much less 7 billion plus, to eat as much meat per capita as USians do.
In
most places meat is more of a condiment than a staple.


I think all humans would like to consume more meat. The only thing that
prevents it is a scarcity of resources.


Ed, you really should to stop using the emphatically inclusive "ALL"

when not applicable. Surely it is a given that vegetarians and vegans
are humans who have chosen not to consume meat. Your conclusion does
not follow from your premise (logical fallacy - non sequitor).
Scarcity of resource is not the ONLY thing the prevent ALL humans from
consuming more meat. You are disregarding the matter of conscious
choice not to consume meat. Some humans have no such desire.

There are only a few folks in this world who choose not to eat meat. In
fact, it is so rare that it borders on eccentricity.

All early human cultures (before agriculture) were based on hunting and
gathering. I don't think it can be argued that humans were ever like some
other primates who are strictly vegetarians.


I don't believe that either Tom or myself implied that. Since you
brought the topic up though, back then we got exercise hunting game
instead of driving to the butcher and animals roamed freely eating
natural substance rather than genetically modified feed grown in
fields where herbicides and pesticides are employed. Hormones and
antibiotics had yet to be invented that are found in the meat we
consume and these are all reason enough to consider how much meat one
consumes. There are more reasons, but don't even get me started.

Then you are saying human activity (exercise) is another element that must
be considered? All animal organisms are evolved to combat a variety of
situations, especially as regards diet.
[...]

If we want to keep a pet, a dog or cat should do just fine. I suggest
limiting them however to just a few. No one in this world needs as many
cats
as I have.


As for dogs, two is a good idea, since they're pack animals. Cats are

not pack animals, so more that one is unnecessary. Multiples qualify
your house as a cat house ;^)

Cats may not be pack animals, but they are social animals to a limited
extent. It is cruel to keep just one cat.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota




JimmyMac July 10th 11 01:45 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 8, 5:42*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Jul 7, 9:27 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

Even so, it may not make any difference. It has not been proven that diet
has anything to do with prostate cancer.
Has it been disproved? *It has been proven that can activate


deactivate genes that cause prostate cancer and the anecdotal and
statistical evidence is overwhelming that diet is certainly a factor
linked to prostate cancer.

I never place any confidence in anecdotal 'evidence'. Even statistical
'evidence ' is highly suspect. Either do the science or forget about it.


The science is there and if you do the research as I have you will
realize that. More further down.

Tom Sherman wrote:
There is not enough grain raised in the world for everyone in China
alone,
much less 7 billion plus, to eat as much meat per capita as USians do..
In
most places meat is more of a condiment than a staple.


I think all humans would like to consume more meat. The only thing that
prevents it is a scarcity of resources.
Ed, you really should to stop using the emphatically inclusive "ALL"


when not applicable. *Surely it is a given that vegetarians and vegans
are humans who have chosen not to consume meat. *Your conclusion does
not follow from your premise (logical fallacy - non sequitor).
Scarcity of resource is not the ONLY thing the prevent ALL humans from
consuming more meat. *You are disregarding the matter of conscious
choice not to consume meat. *Some humans have no such desire.

There are only a few folks in this world who choose not to eat meat. In
fact, it is so rare that it borders on eccentricity.


The vegan/vegetarian populace is not the rareity it once was.

All early human cultures (before agriculture) were based on hunting and
gathering. I don't think it can be argued that humans were ever like some
other primates who are strictly vegetarians.


I don't believe that either Tom or myself implied that. *Since you
brought the topic up though, back then we got exercise hunting game
instead of driving to the butcher and animals roamed freely eating
natural substance rather than genetically modified feed grown in
fields where herbicides and pesticides are employed. *Hormones and
antibiotics had yet to be invented that are found in the meat we
consume and these are all reason enough to consider how much meat one
consumes. *There are more reasons, but don't even get me started.

Then you are saying human activity (exercise) is another element that must
be considered? All animal organisms are evolved to combat a variety of
situations, especially as regards diet.
[...]


You are somewhat putting words in my mouth here. First off biological
organisms take time to evolve and combat what is thrown at them,
especially at the cellular lever, but evolution is a slow process and
often not fast enough for adaptation ans survival. That is why there
are extinction events. Secondly a biological organism can only fend
of so much before being overcome or diseases would not be as
commonplace as they are. Now getting back on topic, although exercise
is arguably of benefit, what I was saying is that the meat you suggest
that all humans want to eat more of is not as safe as it was back when
mankind were hunter gathers. Furthermore it was never safe to consume
in large quantity quantity. I said not to get me started, but just
knew I'd get sucked into at least explaining the rudimentary basics,
but will nonetheless restrict my commentary and only briefly touch on
things. Here is an example that men who commonly get prostate cancer
should take notice of. Laboratory research focused on the reason why
a diet high in animal fat appears to foster progression in prostate
cancer demonstrated that a fatty acid, arachidonic acid, common in
meat, dairy products, and egg yolks promotes the survival and growth
of human prostate cancer cells. Arachidonic acid is converted to a
hormone, 5-HETE, which appears to foster the spread of prostate
cancer. This is sufficient reason to restrict the consumption of
meat, eggs, and diary products. I'll not elaborate further on this
subject. If you want to verify or learn more in this regard, that's
what Google is for. I just don't have the time to reinvent the wheel
and lay it all out for you. Regardless, suffice it to say that the
scientific research and evidence is there to indicate that diet does
indeed play a role in prostate cancer despite what you have said to
the contrary.

If we want to keep a pet, a dog or cat should do just fine. I suggest
limiting them however to just a few. No one in this world needs as many
cats
as I have.
As for dogs, two is a good idea, since they're pack animals. *Cats are


not pack animals, so more that one is unnecessary. *Multiples qualify
your house as a cat house ;^)

Cats may not be pack animals, but they are social animals to a limited
extent. It is cruel to keep just one cat.


The operative words here are "TO A LIMITED EXTENT". I have had both
cats and dogs, even at the same time. There is no way that a cat is
as social an animal as is the dog. Far more independent, most (but
not all) cats are more attached to their residence than to a
person ... their owner. At least that has been my personal
experience.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Tºm Shermªn °_° July 10th 11 03:05 AM

OT - Felis Catus
 
On 7/8/2011 4:29 PM, JimmyMac wrote:
On Jul 7, 9:27�am, "Edward wrote:
[...]
If we want to keep a pet, a dog or cat should do just fine. I suggest
limiting them however to just a few. No one in this world needs as many cats
as I have.


As for dogs, two is a good idea, since they're pack animals. Cats are
not pack animals, so more that one is unnecessary. Multiples qualify
your house as a cat house ;^)


butbutbut, kitties like each other!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/5203260302/in/set-72157625331406609

Unless one is retired or works at home, a kitty needs at least one other
kitty for companionship.

As for the cat house idea, I need to get to work on interior modifications:
http://www.thecatshouse.com/catshouse/tour.htm.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Tºm Shermªn °_° July 10th 11 06:45 AM

OT - Kitty-Cats
 
On 7/9/2011 7:45 PM, JimmyMac wrote:
On Jul 8, 5:42�pm, "Edward wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jul 7, 9:27 am, "Edward wrote:
[...]

If we want to keep a pet, a dog or cat should do just fine. I suggest
limiting them however to just a few. No one in this world needs as many
cats
as I have.
As for dogs, two is a good idea, since they're pack animals. �Cats are


not pack animals, so more that one is unnecessary. �Multiples qualify
your house as a cat house ;^)

Cats may not be pack animals, but they are social animals to a limited
extent. It is cruel to keep just one cat.


The operative words here are "TO A LIMITED EXTENT". I have had both
cats and dogs, even at the same time. There is no way that a cat is
as social an animal as is the dog. Far more independent, most (but
not all) cats are more attached to their residence than to a
person ... their owner. At least that has been my personal
experience.


My kitties run up to greet me when I come home, and spend most of their
time in the same room I am in.

When my little one was gone for a week (recovery from surgery), my
orange tabby became extremely clingy.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Tºm Shermªn °_° July 10th 11 06:55 AM

OT - Chimpanzee Attacks
 
On 7/7/2011 5:54 AM, ATP wrote:
"T�m Sherm�n " wrote in message
...
[...]
The only other primates to eat meat are chimpanzees, and it is only a
small part of their diet, monkeys [3] being hard to catch and kill.
However, it is valued enough that male chimpanzees will give meat to
females in exchange for sex.

[1] Unless social circumstances dictate otherwise.
[2] Free range and fish only.
[3] Chimpanzees have been known to steal and eat human babies [4], which
typically ends up in the chimpanzee being hunted down and killed in short
order.
[4] Or parts of adult humans, in a few cases of morons [5] who keep them
as pets.


Although surgeons recently reattached Charla's face- reportedly with Gorilla
Glue...........


Before surgery (not for the squeamish):
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/117986/original.jpg.

Another attack: http://www.esquire.com/features/chimpanzee-attack-0409-3.

Thankfully no one has a pet chimpanzee in my neighborhood, but if
someone did, I would adopt a shoot first, ask questions later policy.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Edward Dolan July 10th 11 06:51 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Jul 8, 5:42 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

All early human cultures (before agriculture) were based on hunting and
gathering. I don't think it can be argued that humans were ever like
some
other primates who are strictly vegetarians.


I don't believe that either Tom or myself implied that. Since you
brought the topic up though, back then we got exercise hunting game
instead of driving to the butcher and animals roamed freely eating
natural substance rather than genetically modified feed grown in
fields where herbicides and pesticides are employed. Hormones and
antibiotics had yet to be invented that are found in the meat we
consume and these are all reason enough to consider how much meat one
consumes. There are more reasons, but don't even get me started.

Then you are saying human activity (exercise) is another element that must
be considered? All animal organisms are evolved to combat a variety of
situations, especially as regards diet.
[...]


You are somewhat putting words in my mouth here. First off biological

organisms take time to evolve and combat what is thrown at them,
especially at the cellular lever, but evolution is a slow process and
often not fast enough for adaptation ans survival. That is why there
are extinction events.

Only too true!

Secondly a biological organism can only fend

of so much before being overcome or diseases would not be as
commonplace as they are. Now getting back on topic, although exercise
is arguably of benefit, what I was saying is that the meat you suggest
that all humans want to eat more of is not as safe as it was back when
mankind were hunter gathers. Furthermore it was never safe to consume
in large quantity quantity.

Only too true!

I said not to get me started, but just

knew I'd get sucked into at least explaining the rudimentary basics,
but will nonetheless restrict my commentary and only briefly touch on
things. Here is an example that men who commonly get prostate cancer
should take notice of. Laboratory research focused on the reason why
a diet high in animal fat appears to foster progression in prostate
cancer demonstrated that a fatty acid, arachidonic acid, common in
meat, dairy products, and egg yolks promotes the survival and growth
of human prostate cancer cells. Arachidonic acid is converted to a
hormone, 5-HETE, which appears to foster the spread of prostate
cancer. This is sufficient reason to restrict the consumption of
meat, eggs, and diary products. I'll not elaborate further on this
subject. If you want to verify or learn more in this regard, that's
what Google is for. I just don't have the time to reinvent the wheel
and lay it all out for you. Regardless, suffice it to say that the
scientific research and evidence is there to indicate that diet does
indeed play a role in prostate cancer despite what you have said to
the contrary.

Regarding an animal's ability to adapt in order to survive, some are much
better at this than others. Those who are not good at this do indeed become
extinct. The panda is an example of an animal that is specialized and in
danger of extinction. The human is an example of an animal that is
generalized and not in any danger of extinction. We can survive
environmental assaults whether of nature or of our own creation far better
than most other animals.

I will repeat what I have already hinted at before. The science on what
causes prostate cancer is not solidly grounded. It is mostly speculation
based on very thin slivers of research. I would not base what I eat on those
speculations. Entire cultures based solely on meat and dairy products do
not seem to have particularly high rates of prostate cancer. Eat a variety
of foods in moderation is still the best and most sensible regimen.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota




JimmyMac July 12th 11 05:15 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 10, 12:51*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Jul 8, 5:42 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]



All early human cultures (before agriculture) were based on hunting and
gathering. I don't think it can be argued that humans were ever like
some
other primates who are strictly vegetarians.


I don't believe that either Tom or myself implied that. Since you
brought the topic up though, back then we got exercise hunting game
instead of driving to the butcher and animals roamed freely eating
natural substance rather than genetically modified feed grown in
fields where herbicides and pesticides are employed. Hormones and
antibiotics had yet to be invented that are found in the meat we
consume and these are all reason enough to consider how much meat one
consumes. There are more reasons, but don't even get me started.


Then you are saying human activity (exercise) is another element that must
be considered? All animal organisms are evolved to combat a variety of
situations, especially as regards diet.
[...]
You are somewhat putting words in my mouth here. *First off biological


organisms take time to evolve and combat what is thrown at them,
especially at the cellular lever, but evolution is a slow process and
often not fast enough for adaptation ans survival. *That is why there
are extinction events.

Only too true!

Secondly a biological organism can only fend


of so much before being overcome or diseases would not be as
commonplace as they are. *Now getting back on topic, although exercise
is arguably of benefit, what I was saying is that the meat you suggest
that all humans want to eat more of is not as safe as it was back when
mankind were hunter gathers. *Furthermore it was never safe to consume
in large quantity quantity.

Only too true!

I said not to get me started, but just


knew I'd get sucked into at least explaining the rudimentary basics,
but will nonetheless restrict my commentary and only briefly touch on
things. *Here is an example that men who commonly get prostate cancer
should take notice of. * Laboratory research focused on the reason why
a diet high in animal fat appears to foster progression in prostate
cancer demonstrated that a fatty acid, arachidonic acid, common in
meat, dairy products, and egg yolks promotes the survival and growth
of human prostate cancer cells. *Arachidonic acid is converted to a
hormone, 5-HETE, which appears to foster the spread of prostate
cancer. *This is sufficient reason to restrict the consumption of
meat, eggs, and diary products. *I'll not elaborate further on this
subject. If you want to verify or learn more in this regard, that's
what Google is for. * I just don't have the time to reinvent the wheel
and lay it all out for you. *Regardless, suffice it to say that the
scientific research and evidence is there to indicate that diet does
indeed play a role in prostate cancer despite what you have said to
the contrary.

Regarding an animal's ability to adapt in order to survive, some are much
better at this than others. Those who are not good at this do indeed become
extinct. The panda is an example of an animal that is specialized and in
danger of extinction. The human is an example of an animal that is
generalized and not in any danger of extinction. We can survive
environmental assaults whether of nature or of our own creation far better
than most other animals.

I will repeat what I have already hinted at before. The science on what
causes prostate cancer is not solidly grounded.


On what do you base this assertion? It would be more appropriate to
state that there is there is still much yet to learn about the causes
and even the biology of the disease.

It is mostly speculation
based on very thin slivers of research.


Your statement is itself speculation. Much research has been done,
but progress has been slow due it part to the complexity of the
disease itself.

I would not base what I eat on those
speculations. *Entire cultures based solely on meat and dairy products do
not seem to have particularly high rates of prostate cancer.


Saying something does not make it so. Yours is merely an expression
of an opinion stated as though it were fact and an opinion I might add
for which you offered no substantiation to support your contention.
This is an all too common practice that you employ when debating an
issue. Granted, many complex and interrelated factors contribute to
contracting prostate cancer and a Western diet consisting of
consumption of meat, eggs and dairy products is one of those
contributing factors. I just looked up the mortality incidence data
and wealthier, more developed countries (Northern and Western Europe,
North America, New Zealand and Australia) have the highest rates.
Southern Europe fairs better than Western and Northern Europe. This
is likely due to the heart/cancer healthy Mediterranean diet. Asian
countries fair the best. Their diet is much different that the
typical Western diet.

Eat a variety of foods in moderation is still the best and most sensible regimen.


This is generally a good rule of thumb provide the variety does no
consist of foods know to be causally linked to disease or foods know
to advance a disease one already has.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Edward Dolan July 12th 11 08:17 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Jul 10, 12:51 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
I will repeat what I have already hinted at before. The science on what
causes prostate cancer is not solidly grounded.


On what do you base this assertion? It would be more appropriate to

state that there is there is still much yet to learn about the causes
and even the biology of the disease.

It is mostly speculation
based on very thin slivers of research.


Your statement is itself speculation. Much research has been done,

but progress has been slow due it part to the complexity of the
disease itself.

It is not just the complexity of the disease, but the complexity of the
human organism and his culture. Scientific studies are not able to take into
account all the variables. They are usually controlled for only a few
variables, neglecting hundreds of other variables which may or may not have
a bearing. Junk science reigns supreme in the area of diet and health.

For instance, is wine good for one's health? Is coffee good for one's
health? Who the hell knows? The research studies are all over the place and
contradict themselves. The reason for this is because the science itself is
flawed. That is because it is being done by academic types who are
nincompoops! What I know for sure based on my own experience is that too
much wine and too much coffee make me feel bad. However in small amounts,
they probably do no harm. Most foods are like wine and coffee. I have never
understood gourmets and food faddists.

I would not base what I eat on those
speculations. Entire cultures based solely on meat and dairy products do
not seem to have particularly high rates of prostate cancer.


Saying something does not make it so. Yours is merely an expression

of an opinion stated as though it were fact and an opinion I might add
for which you offered no substantiation to support your contention.
This is an all too common practice that you employ when debating an
issue. Granted, many complex and interrelated factors contribute to
contracting prostate cancer and a Western diet consisting of
consumption of meat, eggs and dairy products is one of those
contributing factors. I just looked up the mortality incidence data
and wealthier, more developed countries (Northern and Western Europe,
North America, New Zealand and Australia) have the highest rates.
Southern Europe fairs better than Western and Northern Europe. This
is likely due to the heart/cancer healthy Mediterranean diet. Asian
countries fair the best. Their diet is much different that the
typical Western diet.

Have you checked the incidence of prostate cancer among Eskimos? Their
traditional diet was almost exclusively based on meat. Various pastoral
peoples of East Africa fall into the same category.

Eat a variety of foods in moderation is still the best and most sensible
regimen.


This is generally a good rule of thumb provide the variety does not

consist of foods known to be causally linked to disease or foods known
to advance a disease one already has.

It is difficult to say what foods do that.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota




JimmyMac July 16th 11 08:33 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 12, 2:17*am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Jul 10, 12:51 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

I will repeat what I have already hinted at before. The science on what
causes prostate cancer is not solidly grounded.
On what do you base this assertion? *It would be more appropriate to


state that there is there is still much yet to learn about the causes
and even the biology of the disease.

It is mostly speculation
based on very thin slivers of research.
Your statement is itself speculation. *Much research has been done,


but progress has been slow due it part to the complexity of the
disease itself.

It is not just the complexity of the disease, but the complexity of the
human organism and his culture.


Well, yes the biological complexity of the host and the cellular
complexity of the disease itself both make research a cuanting
task.

Scientific studies are not able to take into
account all the variables. They are usually controlled for only a few
variables, neglecting hundreds of other variables which may or may not have
a bearing. Junk science reigns supreme in the area of diet and health.

For instance, is wine good for one's health? Is coffee good for one's
health? Who the hell knows? The research studies are all over the place and
contradict themselves. The reason for this is because the science itself is
flawed. That is because it is being done by academic types who are
nincompoops! What I know for sure based on my own experience is that too
much wine and too much coffee make me feel bad. However in small amounts,
they probably do no harm. Most foods are like wine and coffee. I have never
understood gourmets and food faddists.

I would not base what I eat on those
speculations. Entire cultures based solely on meat and dairy products do
not seem to have particularly high rates of prostate cancer.
Saying something does not make it so. *Yours is merely an expression


of an opinion stated as though it were fact and an opinion I might add
for which you offered no substantiation to support your contention.
This is an all too common practice that you employ when debating an
issue. *Granted, many complex and interrelated factors contribute to
contracting prostate cancer and a Western diet consisting of
consumption of meat, eggs and dairy products is one of those
contributing factors. *I just looked up the mortality incidence data
and wealthier, more developed countries (Northern and Western Europe,
North America, New Zealand and Australia) have the highest rates.
Southern Europe fairs better than Western and Northern Europe. *This
is likely due to the heart/cancer healthy Mediterranean diet. *Asian
countries fair the best. *Their diet is much different that the
typical Western diet.

Have you checked the incidence of prostate cancer among Eskimos?


Yes and thi\eir is a rather unique meat diet not to be confused with
consumption of beef and chick the is predominant in Western diets, but
their diets are changins and so is the rates of cancer right along
with it. I'd suggets tyou go back an re-do you research. Begin here,
for starters...

http://www.cancermonthly.com/iNP/view.asp?ID=228
http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-p...ase-and-cancer


Their
traditional diet was almost exclusively based on meat. Various pastoral
peoples of East Africa fall into the same category.

Eat a variety of foods in moderation is still the best and most sensible
regimen.
This is generally a good rule of thumb provide the variety does not


consist of foods known to be causally linked to disease or foods known
to advance a disease one already has.

It is difficult to say what foods do that.


Well know it isn't actually, but I have delved into this much more
deeply than you have. I till have three more books yet to read a DVD
to view regarding this very topic. I don't want to waste too much
more of my time bringing you up to speed when you can do that on your
own.

Jim

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Edward Dolan July 16th 11 11:07 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 2:17 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
Have you checked the incidence of prostate cancer among Eskimos?


Yes and thi\eir is a rather unique meat diet not to be confused with

consumption of beef and chick the is predominant in Western diets, but
their diets are changins and so is the rates of cancer right along
with it. I'd suggets tyou go back an re-do you research. Begin here,
for starters...

Yes, traditional diets are going the way of the Dodo Bird all over the
world. Still, meat is meat.
[...]

It is difficult to say what foods do that.


Well know it isn't actually, but I have delved into this much more

deeply than you have. I till have three more books yet to read a DVD
to view regarding this very topic. I don't want to waste too much
more of my time bringing you up to speed when you can do that on your
own.

I doubt that you will find out anything better than "... eat a variety of
foods in moderation." If it is all the same to you, I will not waste my time
reading anything about what to eat or what not to eat. I leave that sort of
thing to food faddists.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Edward Dolan July 21st 11 05:41 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 5:07 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
Yes, traditional diets are going the way of the Dodo Bird all over the
world. Still, meat is meat.


Well me is meat? Anothtr opinion stated as fact? Did you ever hear

the saying that you are what you eat. There is some truth to it . Is
meat form a vegetarian animal the same as that of a carnivore? Is red
meat the same as white meat? Meat from organic free range grass fed
beef and and meat form genetically modified corn fed beef laced with
hormones, antibiotics, herbicides and pesticides are hardly the same
now are they?

Nope, they are all basically the same. Meat is meat! If food is not safe,
the FDA will not allow it on the market. In the plant world, so called
organic foods are nothing but a rip-off! Some folks apparently just like to
pay a premium for hocus-pocus.
[...]

I doubt that you will find out anything better than "... eat a variety of
foods in moderation." If it is all the same to you, I will not waste my
time
reading anything about what to eat or what not to eat. I leave that sort
of
thing to food faddists.


What is it like knowing all that there is to know about anything and

everything? You really should get up to speed before offering
opinions that contradict what science has learned about the food we
consume. Although eating a variety of foods in moderation is a
generally a good rule of thumb, there are some foods that I will not
eat even in moderation since such foods adversely impact one's health
over time. What I have read thus far contradicts yous assertion that
you doubt I will find out anything better than "... eat a variety of
foods in moderation." People often have to tailor a diet because of a
particular disease that they have be it high cholesterol, high blood
pressure, diabetes, lactose intolerance coeliac disease, cancer. etc.
I have cancer and knowing what to eat and what not eat is essential.
There are a number of good books that secifically address the issue of
foods and diet for the cancer patient like ... Anti Cancer A new Way
of Life, Nature's Cancer Fighting Foods, Food to Fight Cancer, Natural
Strategies for Patients to name a few good ones. I have done lots of
my own research about food and diet.

What foods to eat and what foods not to eat in regard to cancer is based on
voodoo science. It is why doctors don't bother with any of it. Nutrition
stores are another royal rip-off. You will get all the minerals and vitamins
you need by eating a variety of foods in moderation.

Here are just a few links to get

you up to speed:

No thanks! I have better things to do with my time ... like contemplating my
navel for instance.
[...]

FACT: I have wasted entirely too much time on you. You are

uninformed, opinionated and have nothing to base your opinions on and
are not even open to being enlightened. Nor will you invest the time.
Labeling as "food faddists", a person who is concerned for their
health and endeavors to make healthy choices in the foods they consume
is an absurdity. How can you be so ignorant? You can lead a hosre to
water, but...

Eat a variety of foods in moderation and you will live as long and healthy
as Nature and Civilization intended. Until just a hundred years ago, most
folks, even in civilized countries, did not live much past their 60's. Third
world peoples still die in their 40's and 50's. If truth be told, I don't
think any of us would live much past 40 if we had to exist in a pure state
of nature (a hunting and food gathering culture).

Do you know what the average age of those buried in the Roman catacombs from
the 1st and 2nd centuries was? They were in their late 20's! Death was an
every day event until fairly recently. Those of us who make it into our 70's
have achieved some kind of miracle in the light of human history on this
planet.

I am planning to die of cardiovascular disease myself. In fact, I will be
highly chagrined if cancer gets me first.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota





JimmyMac July 22nd 11 04:07 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 20, 11:41*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Jul 16, 5:07 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

Yes, traditional diets are going the way of the Dodo Bird all over the
world. Still, meat is meat.
Well me is meat? Another opinion stated as fact? *Did you ever hear


the saying that you are what you eat? *There is some truth to it . *Is
meat form a vegetarian animal the same as that of a carnivore? *Is red
meat the same as white meat? *Meat from organic free range grass fed
beef and and meat form genetically *modified corn fed beef laced with
hormones, antibiotics, herbicides and pesticides are hardly the same
now are they?

Nope, they are all basically the same.


What we have here is a logical fallacy know as Argumentum ad nauseam
(argument to the point of disgust; i.e., by repetition). This is the
fallacy of trying to prove something by saying it again and again, but
no matter how many times one repeats something, it will not become any
more true than it was with the first utterance. Repetition is no
substitute for argumentation. I gave specific example to substantiate
what I said. You merely repeated your fallacious opinion without
offering any substantiation in support of your position ... typical!!!

Meat is meat! If food is not safe,
the FDA will not allow it on the market.


If you believe that, I've a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.
The FDA has approved many a drug on the market alleged to be
safe.thalidomide being an example. I rest my case..

In the plant world, so called
organic foods are nothing but a rip-off! Some folks apparently just like to
pay a premium for hocus-pocus.
[...]


I think you forgot to precede you opinion stated as fact with ... "In
my opinion". Apparently, you have much to learn about organic food.

I doubt that you will find out anything better than "... eat a variety of
foods in moderation." If it is all the same to you, I will not waste my
time
reading anything about what to eat or what not to eat. I leave that sort
of
thing to food faddists.
What is it like knowing all that there is to know about anything and


everything? *You really should get up to speed before offering
opinions that contradict what science has learned about the food we
consume. *Although eating a variety of foods in moderation is a
generally a good rule of thumb, there are some foods that I will not
eat even in moderation since such foods adversely impact one's health
over time. *What I have read thus far contradicts yous assertion that
you doubt I will find out anything better than *"... eat a variety of
foods in moderation." *People often have to tailor a diet because of a
particular disease that they have be it high cholesterol, high blood
pressure, diabetes, lactose intolerance coeliac disease, cancer. etc.
I have cancer and knowing what to eat and what not eat is essential.
There are a number of good books that specifically address the issue of
foods and diet for the cancer patient like ... Anti Cancer A new Way
of Life, Nature's Cancer Fighting Foods, Food to Fight Cancer, Natural
Strategies for Patients to name a few good ones. *I have done lots of
my own research about food and diet.

What foods to eat and what foods not to eat in regard to cancer is based on
voodoo science.


You are in much need of an education, but you cant educate someone who
thinks he already know all that there is to know.

It is why doctors don't bother with any of it.



What we have her is a logical fallacy know as a Non Sequitur ("It does
not follow"). This is the of stating, as a conclusion, something that
does not strictly follow from a premise. Actually, many doctors don't
bother with nutrition because many doctors know little about it. One
of the unfortunate intellectual vacuums in conventional medical
training is nutrition. The vast majority of doctors don’t know a great
deal about nutrition because most medical schools don’t teach
nutrition.

Nutrition stores are another royal rip-off. You will get all the minerals and vitamins
you need by eating a variety of foods in moderation.


Must all you unsubstantiated opinion be stated as though factual?
Some of our over farmed soils are known to be depleted of
phytonutrients.

Here are just a few links to get


you up to speed:

No thanks! I have better things to do with my time ... like contemplating my
navel for instance.
[...]


Thanks for proving my point that you think you know all that is worth
knowing and are not open to enlightment. You prove that with almost
every post that you make.

FACT: I have wasted entirely too much time on you. *You are


uninformed, opinionated and have nothing to base your opinions on and
are not even open to being enlightened. *Nor will you invest the time.
Labeling *as "food faddists", a person who is concerned for their
health and endeavors to make healthy choices in the foods they consume
is an absurdity. *How can you be so ignorant? *You can lead a horse to
water, but...

Eat a variety of foods in moderation and you will live as long and healthy
as Nature and Civilization intended. Until just a hundred years ago, most
folks, even in civilized countries, did not live much past their 60's. Third
world peoples still die in their 40's and 50's. If truth be told, I don't
think any of us would live much past 40 if we had to exist in a pure state
of nature (a hunting and food gathering culture).


You are entitle to your opinion as long as it is not stated as
unsubstantiated fact.

Do you know what the average age of those buried in the Roman catacombs from
the 1st and 2nd centuries was? They were in their late 20's! Death was an
every day event until fairly recently. Those of us who make it into our 70's
have achieved some kind of miracle in the light of human history on this
planet.


You are entitle to your opinion as long as it is not stated as
unsubstantiated fact.

I am planning to die of cardiovascular disease myself. In fact, I will be
highly chagrined if cancer gets me first.


Whatever.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Edward Dolan July 22nd 11 10:05 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Jul 20, 11:41 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

Meat is meat! If food is not safe,
the FDA will not allow it on the market.


If you believe that, I've a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

The FDA has approved many a drug on the market alleged to be
safe.thalidomide being an example. I rest my case..

Our FDA is the model for every other country in the world to get up to speed
on food and drug safety. Is it perfect? Of course not, but then what or who
is!

In the plant world, so called
organic foods are nothing but a rip-off! Some folks apparently just like
to
pay a premium for hocus-pocus.
[...]


I think you forgot to precede you opinion stated as fact with ... "In

my opinion". Apparently, you have much to learn about organic food.

I know it is more expensive than regular grown food. Billions of people
would starve to death if they had to depend on organic grown food.
[...]

What foods to eat and what foods not to eat in regard to cancer is based
on
voodoo science.


You are in much need of an education, but you cant educate someone who

thinks he already know all that there is to know.

I stopped learning anything new several decades ago. It must be awful to be
a student all of your life!

It is why doctors don't bother with any of it.


What we have her is a logical fallacy know as a Non Sequitur ("It does

not follow"). This is the of stating, as a conclusion, something that
does not strictly follow from a premise. Actually, many doctors don't
bother with nutrition because many doctors know little about it. One
of the unfortunate intellectual vacuums in conventional medical
training is nutrition. The vast majority of doctors don’t know a great
deal about nutrition because most medical schools don’t teach
nutrition.

Nutrition would be taught in medical schools if it was thought it mattered.
Most folks who concern themselves with food overly much seem like screwballs
to me. I note that Tom Sherman thinks what you eat is important too - and it
is well known by everyone in the universe that Tom Sherman is a screwball!

Nutrition stores are another royal rip-off. You will get all the minerals
and vitamins
you need by eating a variety of foods in moderation.


Must all you unsubstantiated opinion be stated as though factual?

Some of our over farmed soils are known to be depleted of
phytonutrients.

Animal organisms, especially hardy humans, are able to overcome whatever
slight nutritional defeciencies may exist here and there. It is why I
recommend eating a variety of foods in moderation.

Here are just a few links to get


you up to speed:

No thanks! I have better things to do with my time ... like contemplating
my
navel for instance.
[...]


Thanks for proving my point that you think you know all that is worth

knowing and are not open to enlightment [enlightenment]. You prove that
with almost
every post that you make.

It is all part of My Greatness! I even amaze Myself at times! Think of me as
the Oracle of Minnesota!
[...]

I am planning to die of cardiovascular disease myself. In fact, I will be
highly chagrined if cancer gets me first.


Whatever.


You also are going to die of something other than prostate cancer. That is
because you have availed yourself of the standard medical treatments, not
because of your pursuit of cancer unfriendly foods. But of course, you know
more than all the experts in the world combined. Maybe you are planning to
open your own cancer clinic one of these days?

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota




JimmyMac July 23rd 11 03:02 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 22, 4:05*am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Jul 20, 11:41 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

Meat is meat! If food is not safe,
the FDA will not allow it on the market.
If you believe that, I've a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.


The FDA has approved many a drug on the market alleged to be
safe.thalidomide being an example. *I rest my case..

Our FDA is the model for every other country in the world to get up to speed
on food and drug safety. Is it perfect? Of course not, but then what or who
is!

In the plant world, so called
organic foods are nothing but a rip-off! Some folks apparently just like
to
pay a premium for hocus-pocus.
[...]
I think you forgot to precede you opinion stated as fact with ... "In


my opinion". *Apparently, you have much to learn about organic food.

I know it is more expensive than regular grown food. Billions of people
would starve to death if they had to depend on organic grown food.
[...]

What foods to eat and what foods not to eat in regard to cancer is based
on
voodoo science.
You are in much need of an education, but you cant educate someone who


thinks he already know all that there is to know.

I stopped learning anything new several decades ago. It must be awful to be
a student all of your life!


Wise men become wise men by continuing the learning process throughout
their entire life. You have opted for academic stagnation ... an
unfortunate choice.
..
It is why doctors don't bother with any of it.
What we have her is a logical fallacy know as a Non Sequitur ("It does


not follow"). This is the *of stating, as a conclusion, something that
does not strictly follow from a premise. *Actually, many doctors don't
bother with nutrition because many doctors know little about it. *One
of the unfortunate intellectual vacuums in conventional medical
training is nutrition. The vast majority of doctors don’t know a great
deal about nutrition because most medical schools don’t teach
nutrition.

Nutrition would be taught in medical schools if it was thought it mattered.


In your opinion your opinion you meant to say.

Most folks who concern themselves with food overly much seem like screwballs
to me. I note that Tom Sherman thinks what you eat is important too - and it
is well known by everyone in the universe that Tom Sherman is a screwball!


Opinion stated as fact.

Nutrition stores are another royal rip-off. You will get all the minerals
and vitamins
you need by eating a variety of foods in moderation.
Must all you unsubstantiated opinion be stated as though factual?


Some of our over farmed soils are known to be depleted of
phytonutrients.

Animal organisms, especially hardy humans, are able to overcome whatever
slight nutritional defeciencies may exist here and there. It is why I
recommend eating a variety of foods in moderation


No matter what you say to the contrary, the biological organism cannot
overcome nutritional deficiency form those nutrients that are required
and are obtained from ingestion.

Here are just a few links to get


you up to speed:


No thanks! I have better things to do with my time ... like contemplating
my
navel for instance.
[...]
Thanks for proving my point that you think you know all that is worth


knowing and are not open to enlightment [enlightenment]. *You prove that
with almost
every post that you make.

It is all part of My Greatness! I even amaze Myself at times! Think of me as
the Oracle of Minnesota!
[...]

I am planning to die of cardiovascular disease myself. In fact, I will be
highly chagrined if cancer gets me first.
Whatever.


You also are going to die of something other than prostate cancer. That is
because you have availed yourself of the standard medical treatments, not
because of your pursuit of cancer unfriendly foods.


You again forgot to state that this is you opinion. I have availed
myself of standard medical treatments, but have not and will not
overlook the importance of healing foods and the importance of foods
that are know to cause or stimulate the spread of cancer.. From where
do you think the majority of medicine are derived? Aspirin comes from
tree bark and penicillin from bread bold, for instance.

But of course, you know
more than all the experts in the world combined. Maybe you are planning to
open your own cancer clinic one of these days?


What we have her is a coping mechanism at work ... projection.
Although I certainly know more than do you in this regard, I haven't
once pretended to "know more than all the experts in the world
combined". I will reserve that accolade for you who chooses to ignore
what the experts in the world have made known and whose advice I rely
upon, but you dismiss. In a nutshell, that's that on that

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



Edward Dolan July 24th 11 01:44 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Jul 22, 4:05 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
I stopped learning anything new several decades ago. It must be awful to
be
a student all of your life!


Wise men become wise men by continuing the learning process throughout

their entire life. You have opted for academic stagnation ... an
unfortunate choice.

I knew an academic type who decided to learn a new language at age 70. Why?
Because he wanted to keep his mind sharp. He died a year later. He would
have been better off contemplating the eternal verities like me instead of
learning a new language which he would never use.
[...]

You also are going to die of something other than prostate cancer. That is
because you have availed yourself of the standard medical treatments, not
because of your pursuit of cancer unfriendly foods.


You again forgot to state that this is you opinion. I have availed

myself of standard medical treatments, but have not and will not
overlook the importance of healing foods and the importance of foods
that are know to cause or stimulate the spread of cancer.. From where
do you think the majority of medicine are derived? Aspirin comes from
tree bark and penicillin from bread bold, for instance.

Your pursuit of alternative treatments will keep you mentally occupied and
who knows, you may even hit on something. But the chances are that it will
be a dead end. That is why they remain forever alternative treatments.

But of course, you know
more than all the experts in the world combined. Maybe you are planning to
open your own cancer clinic one of these days?


What we have her is a coping mechanism at work ... projection.

Although I certainly know more than do you in this regard, I haven't
once pretended to "know more than all the experts in the world
combined". I will reserve that accolade for you who chooses to ignore
what the experts in the world have made known and whose advice I rely
upon, but you dismiss. In a nutshell, that's that on that

You probably know more useless information than I know, but all the
pertinent information relating to prostate cancer can be summed up in a
rather small booklet. Read the small booklet and you will know all you need
to know. Leave everything else to the medical researchers. If what they find
out is any good, it will make its way into the booklet.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota




T°m Sherm@n July 24th 11 07:36 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On 7/20/2011 11:41 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
Nope, they are all basically the same. Meat is meat! If food is not safe,
the FDA will not allow it on the market.[...]


Mr. Ed Dolan's confidence in the FDA is unwarranted by facts.

[...]
I am planning to die of cardiovascular disease myself. In fact, I will be
highly chagrined if cancer gets me first.


Or you could suffer a case of terminal pigheadedness.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.

T°m Sherm@n July 24th 11 07:38 PM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On 7/21/2011 10:07 PM, JimmyMac wrote:
[...]
What we have here is a logical fallacy know as Argumentum ad nauseam
(argument to the point of disgust; i.e., by repetition). This is the
fallacy of trying to prove something by saying it again and again, but
no matter how many times one repeats something, it will not become any
more true than it was with the first utterance. Repetition is no
substitute for argumentation. I gave specific example to substantiate
what I said. You merely repeated your fallacious opinion without
offering any substantiation in support of your position ... typical!!!
[...]


Please recall that Mr. Ed Dolan is a fan of Faux Noos, which uses the
repetitive big lie technique (when it is not spying on and blackmailing
public figures).

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.

JimmyMac July 25th 11 02:23 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 23, 7:44*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Jul 22, 4:05 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

I stopped learning anything new several decades ago. It must be awful to
be
a student all of your life!


Wise men become wise men by continuing the learning process throughout


their entire life. You have opted for academic stagnation ... an
unfortunate choice.

I knew an academic type who decided to learn a new language at age 70. Why?
Because he wanted to keep his mind sharp. He died a year later. He would
have been better off contemplating the eternal verities like me instead of
learning a new language which he would never use.
[...]


What we have here is the logical fallacy know as a red herring ...
introducing irrelevant facts or arguments to distract from the
question at hand.

You also are going to die of something other than prostate cancer. That is
because you have availed yourself of the standard medical treatments, not
because of your pursuit of cancer unfriendly foods.
You again forgot to state that this is you opinion. *I have availed


myself of standard medical treatments, but have not and will not
overlook the importance of healing foods and the importance of foods
that are known to cause or stimulate the spread of cancer.. *From where
do you think the majority of medicine are derived? *Aspirin comes from
tree bark and penicillin from bread bold, for instance.

Your pursuit of alternative treatments will keep you mentally occupied and
who knows, you may even hit on something. But the chances are that it will
be a dead end. That is why they remain forever alternative treatments.


What we have here is a logical fallacy know as a non sequitor or
fallacy of stating, as a conclusion, something that does not strictly
follow from a premises. Many a conventional medical treatment is
literally a "dead end" and that is what gave birth to and popularized
alternatve treatments. Unfortunately, many are quackery that appeal
to the desperate. I am not interested in alternative treatment, but
rather complimentary means in a holistic approach to the treatment of
my disease. I guess the subtlety of the none too subtle difference
escaped your attention.

But of course, you know
more than all the experts in the world combined. Maybe you are planning to
open your own cancer clinic one of these days?
What we have her is a coping mechanism at work ... projection.


Although I certainly know more than do you in this regard, I haven't
once pretended to "know more than all the experts in the world
combined". *I will reserve that accolade for you who chooses to ignore
what the experts in the world have made known and whose advice I rely
upon, but you dismiss. * In a nutshell, that's that on that

You probably know more useless information than I know, but all the
pertinent information relating to prostate cancer can be summed up in a
rather small booklet.


In your jaded, opinion based upon what litlle you know you forgot to
add. I know more useful information than you do regarding prostate
cancer. That much has become abundantly clear.

Read the small booklet and you will know all you need
to know. Leave everything else to the medical researchers. If what they find
out is any good, it will make its way into the booklet.


Saying something is so doesn't make it so, even if you are the ones
saying ... especially if you are the one saying it. What never
ceases to amaze me is your willingness to prove beyond question what
an incredibly close minded block head you are. Little booklets are
merely primers produced for people with your abysmal level of
absorption.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



JimmyMac July 25th 11 02:28 AM

Insight into the phases of the Internet forum life cycle: a perspective
 
On Jul 24, 1:36*pm, "T°m Sherm@n" ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 7/20/2011 11:41 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
Nope, they are all basically the same. Meat is meat! If food is not safe,
the FDA will not allow it on the market.[...]


Mr. Ed Dolan's confidence in the FDA is unwarranted by facts.


You think? ;^) Don't use that word (FACT) around Ed. He despises
facts. Just ask him. He is all bout opinion no matter how errant and
uncoroborated it is. Now thats a FACT!

[...]
I am planning to die of cardiovascular disease myself. In fact, I will be
highly chagrined if cancer gets me first.


Or you could suffer a case of terminal pigheadedness.


I hear you, but unfortunatel the rest of us suffer because of Ed's
terminal pigheadedness.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.




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