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On 3/15/2017 11:12 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/15/2017 11:05 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 19:46:28 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

On 3/15/2017 7:39 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 14:08:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/14/2017 11:15 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:09:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
But the point I was discussing was whether too brief
or too dim
standlights really kill or seriously injure
_stationary_ bicyclists.
I've never heard of such a case. I think it's yet
another exaggerated
danger.

Bicycle lighting seems to be divided into "see where
your going" and
"be seen" parts. Standlights are in the "be seen"
part. If so, then
using a relatively narrow forward facing headlight is
inadequate and a
poor substitute for all around "be seen" type lighting.

So far, no driver has tried to kill me while I'm
stationary, but it's
possible. To help prevent such a threat, I would need
all around
illumination because I don't know from what direction
the driver might
approach and I do NOT need to see where I'm going
(because I'm not
going anywhere). Some kind of flashing headband,
flashing arm bands,
or maybe downward facing flood lights to illuminate an
area. Maybe an
LED illuminated vest, which is now popular among
highway workers:
https://www.amazon.com/HIGH-VISIBILITY-VEST-COMPLIANT-REFLECTIVE/dp/B01L2US0EY

https://www.amazon.com/SE-EP08L-Illuminated-Flashing-Feature/dp/B008WAE2XQ

https://www.amazon.com/SE-EP07L-Flashing-Illuminated-Safety/dp/B004J663A2

I don't know which type of "be seen" lighting might be
most effective,
but any of the aformentioned would be better than a
dim forward facing
standlight.

Thing is, nobody's demonstrated any need for so much
stationary "be
seen" light, beyond the usual "well, it _could_ happen"
safety inflation
mentality.

We're facing the same mentality regarding our local
forest preserve.
Some people want to cut down every dead or dying tree
within 100 feet of
any trail because, well, it _could_ fall on somebody
and kill them. Sheesh.

I have worked in area where it is probable that no one
has ever cut
down a tree until we arrived and there never was a
problem with dead
or diseased trees falling down.

One problem with cutting down trees that "could" fall
down is that in
a hurricane many perfectly healthy trees get blown down.
Perhaps the
cutting of all trees taller than the average human
"could" lives.

And, of course, banning the ownership of bicycles
"could" save ~900
lives a year.


A bicycle ban?
How's that 100-year worldwide Heroin ban working?

Works great! Allows a considerable number of common
ordinary people to
make a "decent" living.

True the demand does seems to be decreasing but the
widening the
demand for amphetamines, which can be made at home rather
than waiting
for a crop to ripen and getting all bound up with buying
futures and
warehousing raw materials.

As an aside, do you think anyone wants the "war on drugs"
to be won?

Examples:

U.S. Coastguard budget (numbers adjusted to 2013 dollars):
1950 - $1,439,312,446
2013 - $ 7,051,054,000

The total DEA budget is difficult to ascertain but:
The total budget of the DEA from 1972 to 2014, according
to the
agency website, was $50.6 billion. The agency had 11,055
employees in
2014. For the year 2014 the average cost per arrest made
was $97,325.

An estimate by The Cato Institute, in 2010, states that
the legalizing
of drugs would save roughly $41.3 billion per year in
government
expenditure. Or to put it a different way, The War on
Drugs is costing
the U.S. an estimated $41.3 billion dollars a year.

Do you think that anyone wants all that lovely lolly to
disappear?

To make a sort of meta-point:

People often claim that the discussions here are worthless.
In particular, because nobody here ever changes their mind.

But it's partly because of information I've gotten here
(corroborated elsewhere) that I now believe most drugs
should be legalized. I think the U.S. should more or less
follow the Portugal strategy, with perhaps some minor
modifications.


No one analyzed this subject better than the genius Ludwig
von Mises:

“Opium and morphine are certainly dangerous, habit-forming
drugs. But once the principle is admitted that it is the
duty of government to protect the individual against his own
foolishness, no serious objections can be advanced against
further encroachments... Why limit the government’s
benevolent providence to the protection of the individual’s
body only?” Mises asks. “Is not the harm a man can inflict
on his mind and soul even more disastrous than any bodily
evils? Why not prevent him from reading bad books and seeing
bad plays, from looking at bad paintings and statues and
from hearing bad music?”

and further:
“He who wants to reform his countrymen must take recourse to
persuasion. This alone is the democratic way of bringing
about changes. If a man fails in his endeavors to convince
other people of the soundness of his ideas,” Mises
concludes, “he should blame his own disabilities. He should
not ask for a law, that is, for compulsion and coercion by
the police.”

Which of course brings us right down to 2017.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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On 2017-03-14 19:43, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:54:26 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-03-13 20:00, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 12:38:07 -0700, Joerg
wrote:
55V at 500mA. This is encouraging.

That's 27.5 watts out of a 3 watt dynamo. I was impressed, until I
converted 136 km/hr and found that it was 84.5 mph. With a rocket
assisted bicycle, I might be able to do that.

Well, yeah, they just wanted to see where the limit is. I guess the
enameled copper wire inside would smoke out if you kept that speed for long.

Only the resistive part dissipates power in the wi
P = I^2 * R = 0.5^2 * 2 = 0.5 watts
So, it won't be the wire that gets hot. However, the cores in
saturation are going to get warm. Offhand, I don't know how to
calculate how hot.


The lowest resistance I measured is on my largest bottle dynamo, 6.2
ohms. That added to the cores also becoming hot and not being able to
sink away much heat sets it up for a burn-out.


However, this means I should be comfortably able to milk 10W or more out
of such a dynamo on a long downhill stretch and maybe north of 5W during
regular rides on flat terrain. IOW there seems to be nothing that
inherently limits things to the usual measly 3-4W.

Maybe. Let's pretend that the test demonstrates that the dynamo can
deliver 28 watts for perhaps 60 minutes before blowing up. Assuming
constant energy (Joules or watt-seconds) at any speed.


Not any speed but the usual cruise speed of a rider in decent shape.
Also assuming MPPT because it really won't be possible without that. At
least a poor man's MPPT where the input voltage is set to a fixed higher
level such as 12V.


... That would be
10 watts for 168 minutes. Assuming 10 watts output is a comfortable
ride for you,


I think I can muster a little more than 10W :-)

10W wouldn't even show up in the noise for a regular rider.


... you would have about 3 hrs of bright light before the
dynamo self-destructed. Actually, it would probably be more like 4 or
5 hrs since the system is not adiabatic and the heat radiation
efficiency of the dynamo case is time dependent.


10W should be fine considering that the dynamo will then also be cooled
by air streaming past. On hot days I have to ratchet down the front
light anyhow when riding at low speed because else the overtemp shut-off
comes on. Then the net energy draw of the power bus becomes lower and
the charge controller reduced the dynamo draw to 4-5W.


The author is mostly correct about hubs not going into saturation as
easily and bottle dynamos. However, they do go into staturation, just
at a higher RPM.

If that happens above 84mph I shall be happy :-)

Dream on. If you look at the dynamo speed vs power curves at:
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html
They all begin to go into saturation at 15 to 20 km/hr. At 136 km/hr,
the dynamo will produce 27.5 watts, but the rest of the input energy
will be wasted in core saturation heating. If you paint flames on the
fenders, maybe other riders will think the burning dynamo is normal.


There is no need for 27.5W but there is for 8-10W. That should be
reasonably possible, else the dynamo would have smoked out during their
testing.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/122373782338
(Yet another project that I'll never finish).

That is a neat little instrument.

Yep. I don't have one yet, but it's a real temptation to install one
on all my various unmetered power supplies and battery packs. However,
there's a catch. The common ground is positive (+), not negative.
You can see that in the schematic:
https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i3/121163002/TB2NoBogpXXXXahXpXXXXXXXXXX_!!121163002.jpg
where the + leads of both the "DC in" and the load are connected
together. The only ways I could make it work in a negative ground
system was either an isolated power source, isolated load, separate
isolated power supply to run the meter, or a DC-DC inverter.


That would be a show stopper in most applications. Got to have high-side
current sensing. From a dynamo it's still feasible after things have
been turned to DC because the hub versions usually have two ground-free
terminals. Bottle dynamos unfortunately not. However, when doing MPPT
there already is a micro controller which can then also perform the job
of energy metering. I would not need that though, maybe just an
indicator of whether the dynamo is able to feed enough for a given light
setting. Even that is expendable if you have a voltmeter riding along
with the Li-Ion battery. In my case I'd just have to make sure it won't
get close to 7V where the electronics will eventually shut things off.


Anyhow, I don't
think a dynamo can easily be simulated until you start with a mechanical
model of it and that gets into COMSOL and other really expensive
modeling software. Maybe possible with MathCad which I have but rarely
use so I became rusty there.

Yep. That was pretty much my conclusion. Jim Thomson posted this
Pspice component model:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.electronics.design/yPVvclIIirQ
which I have been unable to convert to LTSpice. He seems to just put
a sharp knee where the dynamo starts to go into saturation. That's
probably good enough to get started. The rest is mechanical and
rather messy if I add nonlinearities, friction, and air resistance. I
do have one advantage with a hub dynamo. I can characterize it as a
motor on the bench and then simply invert the derived functions to
produce a generator. That might be a worthy shortcut.


Nothing beats trying it on the bench, using a variable speed drill or
similar. I haven't observed a sharp knee effect on any of them so far.
Which probably explains the large number of bulbs I blew out in the 80's
when I had to get somewhere fast.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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On 2017-03-15 12:39, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 12:19:18 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 10:20:10 AM UTC-7, Doug Landau
wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 9:45:34 AM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 7:53:52 AM UTC-7, David Scheidt
wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:

:I remember burning out bulbs with my bottle dynamo if I rode
really :fast. I also remember the slipping problems when the
wheels were wet even :when I used the rubber boot sold to go
on the bottle dynamo roller. Hub :dynamos today really seem
to fall down at slow speeds.

Mine work fine from walking speeds. They produce more light
at higher speeds, but at slow speeds you don't need it,
because you're not moving fast.


I sometimes need light most at slow speeds, when I'm creeping
up hills and trying not to fall into giant pot holes.

-- Jay Beattie.

Where are you on Strava

No Strava. No Garmin. My cyclometer is broken. I might as well be
back in the stoneage.

-- Jay Beattie.

Strava's just for fun. I don't use a cyclometer any more. I just
count rear tires and multiply by 1500 now.



1500mi? Is that really all you get out of a rear tire? I routinely got
2500mi out of Gatorskins. The CST Conquistare I put on there now doesn't
look like it'll give me that many miles though.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 12:12:58 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-15 12:39, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 12:19:18 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 10:20:10 AM UTC-7, Doug Landau
wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 9:45:34 AM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 7:53:52 AM UTC-7, David Scheidt
wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:

:I remember burning out bulbs with my bottle dynamo if I rode
really :fast. I also remember the slipping problems when the
wheels were wet even :when I used the rubber boot sold to go
on the bottle dynamo roller. Hub :dynamos today really seem
to fall down at slow speeds.

Mine work fine from walking speeds. They produce more light
at higher speeds, but at slow speeds you don't need it,
because you're not moving fast.


I sometimes need light most at slow speeds, when I'm creeping
up hills and trying not to fall into giant pot holes.

-- Jay Beattie.

Where are you on Strava

No Strava. No Garmin. My cyclometer is broken. I might as well be
back in the stoneage.

-- Jay Beattie.

Strava's just for fun. I don't use a cyclometer any more. I just
count rear tires and multiply by 1500 now.



1500mi? Is that really all you get out of a rear tire? I routinely got
2500mi out of Gatorskins. The CST Conquistare I put on there now doesn't
look like it'll give me that many miles though.

I used to get 2K when I weighed 50 Lbs less
I routinely get 2500-3K from a Gatorskin. I count em as 2 when figuring the mileage on my bike
I -think- I've been getting slightly over 1500 from the basic conti - the 2000 or ultrasport or whatever its called these days
I -think- I get slightly under 1500 from SRAM 9 speed chains. I used to get 2K from those, too, when they were Sachs 8speed. Now it seems like 1200-1400

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On 2017-03-16 13:00, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 12:12:58 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-15 12:39, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 12:19:18 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 10:20:10 AM UTC-7, Doug Landau
wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 9:45:34 AM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 7:53:52 AM UTC-7, David Scheidt
wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:

:I remember burning out bulbs with my bottle dynamo if I rode
really :fast. I also remember the slipping problems when the
wheels were wet even :when I used the rubber boot sold to go
on the bottle dynamo roller. Hub :dynamos today really seem
to fall down at slow speeds.

Mine work fine from walking speeds. They produce more light
at higher speeds, but at slow speeds you don't need it,
because you're not moving fast.


I sometimes need light most at slow speeds, when I'm creeping
up hills and trying not to fall into giant pot holes.

-- Jay Beattie.

Where are you on Strava

No Strava. No Garmin. My cyclometer is broken. I might as well be
back in the stoneage.

-- Jay Beattie.

Strava's just for fun. I don't use a cyclometer any more. I just
count rear tires and multiply by 1500 now.



1500mi? Is that really all you get out of a rear tire? I routinely got
2500mi out of Gatorskins. The CST Conquistare I put on there now doesn't
look like it'll give me that many miles though.

I used to get 2K when I weighed 50 Lbs less
I routinely get 2500-3K from a Gatorskin. I count em as 2 when figuring the mileage on my bike
I -think- I've been getting slightly over 1500 from the basic conti - the 2000 or ultrasport or whatever its called these days
I -think- I get slightly under 1500 from SRAM 9 speed chains. I used to get 2K from those, too, when they were Sachs 8speed. Now it seems like 1200-1400


I've got a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my trusty old road bike. A
friend had one left over and it still had the old $6 price tag on it. It
is almost unbelievable, that chain is now on there for more than 4000mi
and it's only at 0.5% stretch. It does not want to die. I am very picky
WRT chain maintenance though. Clean and lube latest every 250mi, and
every 50mi on the MTB.

It'll survive the cassette which is technically close to EOL and I
installed it at about the same time. Although since I dremeled away the
excess on the odd splines I can flip all the sprockets around and get
another round out of them. Which I'll probably do since slightly more
recalcitrant shifting won't bother me, having grown up in the UG days.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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On 16/03/17 16:44, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:40:55 PM UTC-4, James wrote:


At creeping speeds (less than 10km/h), I could see holes with a
candle light.


Must be nice to be blessed with such perfect vision! many of us find
that we need a prety bright light in order to see where we're going
and the obstacles to avoid at night. that's not to mention that it's
nice to be able to see critters on theroads or trails in time to slow
or stop to avoid running over them. Personally, I like a supplemental
High beam light so that ican see a longer way down an unlit very dark
road on a moonless night so I can see the skunks at the side of the
road or on the road well BEFORE I startle them. YMMV


If you need a high beam light to see enough not to bump in to things at
night while you are moving at less than 10km/h ( 6 miles/h), you have
really poor eyesight. Do you walk with a white cane?

--
JS

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On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 2:13:53 PM UTC-7, James wrote:

If you need a high beam light to see enough not to bump in to things at
night while you are moving at less than 10km/h ( 6 miles/h), you have
really poor eyesight. Do you walk with a white cane?

This is close to the mark. But even Frank has to admit that this subject has been beaten to death since this is the 170th posting on this string.

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On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:20:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

There is no need for 27.5W but there is for 8-10W. That should be
reasonably possible, else the dynamo would have smoked out during their
testing.

If all you're powering are head and tail lights, 10 watts should be
sufficient. However, if you're powering other devices (GPS,
smartphone, rear view camera, electric shifter, fog horn, etc), then
more power is better.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/122373782338
(Yet another project that I'll never finish).

That is a neat little instrument.

Yep. I don't have one yet, but it's a real temptation to install one
on all my various unmetered power supplies and battery packs. However,
there's a catch. The common ground is positive (+), not negative.
You can see that in the schematic:
https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i3/121163002/TB2NoBogpXXXXahXpXXXXXXXXXX_!!121163002.jpg
where the + leads of both the "DC in" and the load are connected
together. The only ways I could make it work in a negative ground
system was either an isolated power source, isolated load, separate
isolated power supply to run the meter, or a DC-DC inverter.

That would be a show stopper in most applications. Got to have high-side
current sensing.

Impediment, not show stopper. What most users have done after turning
the + wire into an impromptu fuse, is to install a small isolated DC
to DC inverter. The problem is that the current measuring part of the
circuit needs to have some source of power to run the devices used. If
one part of that power source happens to be grounded to either the +
or - input of the voltage measuring part, it won't work. So, the
vendor recommends either floating the input or output grounds, using
independent volt and amp meters, or using an isolated power supply to
power the conglomerated meter. I know that one can get such DC to DC
inverters quite cheaply, but I haven't bothered to search for them.
I'll post something if I find one as I think it might be useful for
your battery pack and dynamo.

From a dynamo it's still feasible after things have
been turned to DC because the hub versions usually have two ground-free
terminals. Bottle dynamos unfortunately not. However, when doing MPPT
there already is a micro controller which can then also perform the job
of energy metering.

Yep. I've setup some cheap MPPT solar charge controllers (from eBay).
The better one's have extensive monitoring capabilities, usually on an
LCD or OLED display. If you're counting and budgeting coulombs, it's
a good way to do it.

I would not need that though, maybe just an
indicator of whether the dynamo is able to feed enough for a given light
setting.

Easy enough. The power output of the dynamo is directly proportional
to the RPM and unaffected by the load. The load might change
radically, but the dynamo will only deliver XX watts at XX RPM. You
could just measure the RPM, build a lookup table in some kind of
NVRAM, and display the output power.

Or, you could get fancy, measure the load voltage and current, and
calculate the power needed to run the lights or whatever. Then
compare the input power available, with the average output power
needed. If there's not enough input power available, you need to shed
some load, or pedal harder.

Even that is expendable if you have a voltmeter riding along
with the Li-Ion battery. In my case I'd just have to make sure it won't
get close to 7V where the electronics will eventually shut things off.

If you do go over, you might want to shed the load slowly or you might
lurch forward as pedaling suddenly becomes easier.

Nothing beats trying it on the bench, using a variable speed drill or
similar. I haven't observed a sharp knee effect on any of them so far.
Which probably explains the large number of bulbs I blew out in the 80's
when I had to get somewhere fast.

Yeah, I should do that. However, as I previously mumbled, I'm
overloaded, busy, lazy, and uninspired right now.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 3:08:00 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:20:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

There is no need for 27.5W but there is for 8-10W. That should be
reasonably possible, else the dynamo would have smoked out during their
testing.

If all you're powering are head and tail lights, 10 watts should be
sufficient. However, if you're powering other devices (GPS,
smartphone, rear view camera, electric shifter, fog horn, etc), then
more power is better.

How about if you just wanna go uphill at 20mph?
How many watts are required?
https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+...zJ244tlGbRmAM:

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On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 2:13:53 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 16/03/17 16:44, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:40:55 PM UTC-4, James wrote:


At creeping speeds (less than 10km/h), I could see holes with a
candle light.


Must be nice to be blessed with such perfect vision! many of us find
that we need a prety bright light in order to see where we're going
and the obstacles to avoid at night. that's not to mention that it's
nice to be able to see critters on theroads or trails in time to slow
or stop to avoid running over them. Personally, I like a supplemental
High beam light so that ican see a longer way down an unlit very dark
road on a moonless night so I can see the skunks at the side of the
road or on the road well BEFORE I startle them. YMMV


If you need a high beam light to see enough not to bump in to things at
night while you are moving at less than 10km/h ( 6 miles/h), you have
really poor eyesight. Do you walk with a white cane?

What do you mean by a high beam light? Personally, I need more than a candle to see holes in wet pavement, blow-down and gravel even when creeping along at less than 10km. YMMV.

-- Jay Beattie.

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On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:48:28 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


---A whole bunch deleted ---
No one analyzed this subject better than the genius Ludwig
von Mises:

“Opium and morphine are certainly dangerous, habit-forming
drugs. But once the principle is admitted that it is the
duty of government to protect the individual against his own
foolishness, no serious objections can be advanced against
further encroachments... Why limit the government’s
benevolent providence to the protection of the individual’s
body only?” Mises asks. “Is not the harm a man can inflict
on his mind and soul even more disastrous than any bodily
evils? Why not prevent him from reading bad books and seeing
bad plays, from looking at bad paintings and statues and
from hearing bad music?”

and further:
“He who wants to reform his countrymen must take recourse to
persuasion. This alone is the democratic way of bringing
about changes. If a man fails in his endeavors to convince
other people of the soundness of his ideas,” Mises
concludes, “he should blame his own disabilities. He should
not ask for a law, that is, for compulsion and coercion by
the police.”

Which of course brings us right down to 2017.

This insane urge to protect the ignorant, or just stupid, from their
own folly seems to be a legacy of the "Middle East" religions and the
is largely missing from the "Far East" religions, and would seem to
fly in the face of the Darwin theory, which might be termed "survival
of the fittest".

But something I've always wondered about. We have all these groups
striving to protect the poor ignorant purchaser from those spiteful
manufacturers who fail to tell them that "not tightening this nut may
cause the wheel to fall off". Why isn't there a law to protect the
poor maligned manufacturer from the totally inept users who, for
example, order a cup of hot coffee and than proceed to spill it in
their own lap and than argue that it was the vendor's fault that they
got burned.

Or to use a bit more recent theory, "It is the bank's fault that I am
in debt since if they hadn't loaned me the money I couldn't have spent
it" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

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On 3/16/2017 7:38 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:48:28 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


---A whole bunch deleted ---
No one analyzed this subject better than the genius Ludwig
von Mises:

“Opium and morphine are certainly dangerous, habit-forming
drugs. But once the principle is admitted that it is the
duty of government to protect the individual against his own
foolishness, no serious objections can be advanced against
further encroachments... Why limit the government’s
benevolent providence to the protection of the individual’s
body only?” Mises asks. “Is not the harm a man can inflict
on his mind and soul even more disastrous than any bodily
evils? Why not prevent him from reading bad books and seeing
bad plays, from looking at bad paintings and statues and
from hearing bad music?”

and further:
“He who wants to reform his countrymen must take recourse to
persuasion. This alone is the democratic way of bringing
about changes. If a man fails in his endeavors to convince
other people of the soundness of his ideas,” Mises
concludes, “he should blame his own disabilities. He should
not ask for a law, that is, for compulsion and coercion by
the police.”

Which of course brings us right down to 2017.

This insane urge to protect the ignorant, or just stupid, from their
own folly seems to be a legacy of the "Middle East" religions and the
is largely missing from the "Far East" religions, and would seem to
fly in the face of the Darwin theory, which might be termed "survival
of the fittest".

But something I've always wondered about. We have all these groups
striving to protect the poor ignorant purchaser from those spiteful
manufacturers who fail to tell them that "not tightening this nut may
cause the wheel to fall off". Why isn't there a law to protect the
poor maligned manufacturer from the totally inept users who, for
example, order a cup of hot coffee and than proceed to spill it in
their own lap and than argue that it was the vendor's fault that they
got burned.

Or to use a bit more recent theory, "It is the bank's fault that I am
in debt since if they hadn't loaned me the money I couldn't have spent
it" :-)



That's just crazy talk. Removing impediments like that from
American industry would make comparable goods cost the same
to make here as in Thailand! No one who gets to decide wants
any part of that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

More About Lights
 

On 3/16/2017 8:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 2:13:53 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 16/03/17 16:44, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:40:55 PM UTC-4, James wrote:


At creeping speeds (less than 10km/h), I could see holes with a
candle light.


Must be nice to be blessed with such perfect vision! many of us find
that we need a prety bright light in order to see where we're going
and the obstacles to avoid at night. that's not to mention that it's
nice to be able to see critters on theroads or trails in time to slow
or stop to avoid running over them. Personally, I like a supplemental
High beam light so that ican see a longer way down an unlit very dark
road on a moonless night so I can see the skunks at the side of the
road or on the road well BEFORE I startle them. YMMV


If you need a high beam light to see enough not to bump in to things at
night while you are moving at less than 10km/h ( 6 miles/h), you have
really poor eyesight. Do you walk with a white cane?

What do you mean by a high beam light? Personally, I need more than a candle to see holes in wet pavement, blow-down and gravel even when creeping along at less than 10km. YMMV.

Seriously, if your headlight looks like a candle at 10kph, something is
wrong with your system. There is no speed low enough to make my light
so dim that I can't see potholes and road debris.

Have you put a meter on it yet?

--
- Frank Krygowski

More About Lights
 

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:19:30 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/16/2017 8:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 2:13:53 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 16/03/17 16:44, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:40:55 PM UTC-4, James wrote:


At creeping speeds (less than 10km/h), I could see holes with a
candle light.


Must be nice to be blessed with such perfect vision! many of us find
that we need a prety bright light in order to see where we're going
and the obstacles to avoid at night. that's not to mention that it's
nice to be able to see critters on theroads or trails in time to slow
or stop to avoid running over them. Personally, I like a supplemental
High beam light so that ican see a longer way down an unlit very dark
road on a moonless night so I can see the skunks at the side of the
road or on the road well BEFORE I startle them. YMMV


If you need a high beam light to see enough not to bump in to things at
night while you are moving at less than 10km/h ( 6 miles/h), you have
really poor eyesight. Do you walk with a white cane?

What do you mean by a high beam light? Personally, I need more than a candle to see holes in wet pavement, blow-down and gravel even when creeping along at less than 10km. YMMV.

Seriously, if your headlight looks like a candle at 10kph, something is
wrong with your system. There is no speed low enough to make my light
so dim that I can't see potholes and road debris.

Have you put a meter on it yet?

Not yet, but I'm not really talking about my headlight. I'm responding to James' statement that a candle should produce enough light to ride a bike at under 10kph.

-- Jay Beattie.

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On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 20:37:22 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

even more deleted


Or to use a bit more recent theory, "It is the bank's fault that I am
in debt since if they hadn't loaned me the money I couldn't have spent
it" :-)



That's just crazy talk. Removing impediments like that from
American industry would make comparable goods cost the same
to make here as in Thailand! No one who gets to decide wants
any part of that.

I recently read an statement by one of the Thai ministers that the
very recent increase in the U.S. prime rate, which effectively causes
the value of the U.S. dollar to increase relative to other currencies,
will benefit Thailand as they expect that trade with the U.S. will
increase due to the effective decrease in the cost (in dollars) of
Thai goods.

And, of course, an increase in interest rates also increases the cost
of doing business which in turn increases the cost of U.S. made goods,
which makes the spread between U.S. and foreign goods even greater..
--
Cheers,

John B.

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On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 5:13:53 PM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 16/03/17 16:44, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:40:55 PM UTC-4, James wrote:


At creeping speeds (less than 10km/h), I could see holes with a
candle light.


Must be nice to be blessed with such perfect vision! many of us find
that we need a prety bright light in order to see where we're going
and the obstacles to avoid at night. that's not to mention that it's
nice to be able to see critters on theroads or trails in time to slow
or stop to avoid running over them. Personally, I like a supplemental
High beam light so that ican see a longer way down an unlit very dark
road on a moonless night so I can see the skunks at the side of the
road or on the road well BEFORE I startle them. YMMV


If you need a high beam light to see enough not to bump in to things at
night while you are moving at less than 10km/h ( 6 miles/h), you have
really poor eyesight. Do you walk with a white cane?

--
JS
No, I use sonar. LOL

We're talking about two different things now. There are times when I DO NEED a bright light at slow speeds and there are times one I want a bright light that illuminates the roasd a long way in front of me. A dynamo hub light for ME just doesn't meet MY needs. I like to be able to see critters and debris on the road BEFORE I hit them or in the case of critters like skunks startle them. I also like to be able o tell the difference between a small branch on the road or trail at night and a snake again BEFORE I hit it .YMMV

Cheers

More About Lights
 

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 20:26:57 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

Not yet, but I'm not really talking about my headlight.
I'm responding to James' statement that a candle should
produce enough light to ride a bike at under 10kph.
-- Jay Beattie.

Nobody seemed to like my acetylene lantern alternative, so now we're
doing candles. Sigh.

One candlepower = 0.981 candelas = 12.57 lumens.
However, this is tricky because candlepower and candelas are a measure
of light at the source, not light at the object illuminated. This
might help (or add to the confusion):
http://www.theledlight.com/lumens.html

My eyesight is slowly deteriorating. When riding, I don't wear
corrective glasses. The result is that I can see fairly well past
about 7 meters, but anything closer is otto focus. Potholes are
usually closer, so all I see is a blur on the roadway. More light is
a big help, especially if there's a shadow available to highlight the
edge of the pothole. At night, potholes just merge into the road
debris. My solution is to avoid riding at night, or ride very slowly
and carefully.

I think these are for a bicycle but I'm not certain.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/b0/bf/b1/b0bfb19778bfa3f85b8849983bc0d2f3.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6e/23/fd/6e23fd668b4e57681b8bcbdff7ec71f6.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

More About Lights
 

On 3/16/2017 2:13 PM, James wrote:
On 16/03/17 16:44, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 5:40:55 PM UTC-4, James wrote:


At creeping speeds (less than 10km/h), I could see holes with a
candle light.


Must be nice to be blessed with such perfect vision! many of us find
that we need a prety bright light in order to see where we're going
and the obstacles to avoid at night. that's not to mention that it's
nice to be able to see critters on theroads or trails in time to slow
or stop to avoid running over them. Personally, I like a supplemental
High beam light so that ican see a longer way down an unlit very dark
road on a moonless night so I can see the skunks at the side of the
road or on the road well BEFORE I startle them. YMMV


If you need a high beam light to see enough not to bump in to things at
night while you are moving at less than 10km/h ( 6 miles/h), you have
really poor eyesight. Do you walk with a white cane?

On MUPs you often have to go slow, both because there's a speed limit
and because they tend to have a lot of sharp turns as they go over and
under roads, railroad tracks, and streams. They often have no lighting.
Plus, as you age your night-vision gets worse.

In short, when you're riding on well-lit roads, or well-lit bicycle
infrastructure, you may not need much of a light on your bike, but there
are definitely situations where you do need a lot of light.

Hybrid lights would be the best solution. The necessary brightness
wouldn't be determined solely by how fast you're riding, it'd be
determined by where you're riding.

More About Lights
 

On 3/13/2017 12:28 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

You could stick in a Murata LXDC55FAAA-203
http://power.murata.com/data/power/LXDC55FAAA-203_data_sheet_E.pdf
instead of the zener and do a USB version also with only three parts.
But I know that you love designing your own switchers.


$3.50? Mon Dieu! :-)

I got some of the Murata LXDC55FAAA-203 units from Digikey for use at
work. I guess I didn't realize from the picture on the data sheet just
how tiny these things are. Maybe I'll buy some more and try building
some dynamo to USB adapters.

More About Lights
 

On 2017-03-17 12:11, sms wrote:
On 3/13/2017 12:28 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

You could stick in a Murata LXDC55FAAA-203
http://power.murata.com/data/power/LXDC55FAAA-203_data_sheet_E.pdf
instead of the zener and do a USB version also with only three parts.
But I know that you love designing your own switchers.


$3.50? Mon Dieu! :-)

I got some of the Murata LXDC55FAAA-203 units from Digikey for use at
work. I guess I didn't realize from the picture on the data sheet just
how tiny these things are. Maybe I'll buy some more and try building
some dynamo to USB adapters.


Be carful with that 16V abs max input limit. When the load current drops
this can easily be exceeded by a dynamo, big time. You could burn off
the excess with a zener diode or TVS (though _not_ MOV) but these have
large tolerances and could burn out if not well heat sinked.

I think you need somthing automotive here, some circuit that can stomach
50V or more.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

More About Lights
 

On 2017-03-16 15:07, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:20:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

There is no need for 27.5W but there is for 8-10W. That should be
reasonably possible, else the dynamo would have smoked out during their
testing.

If all you're powering are head and tail lights, 10 watts should be
sufficient. However, if you're powering other devices (GPS,
smartphone, rear view camera, electric shifter, fog horn, etc), then
more power is better.


I also have to power an MP3 player. No smart phone since I won't likely
buy one until they can function as good as a GPS devise even while off-grid.

Still, 10W suffices because I can ratchet down or turn off the light on
many trails and MUP. It's mostly needed on roads which I try to avoid
where I can.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/122373782338
(Yet another project that I'll never finish).

That is a neat little instrument.

Yep. I don't have one yet, but it's a real temptation to install one
on all my various unmetered power supplies and battery packs. However,
there's a catch. The common ground is positive (+), not negative.
You can see that in the schematic:
https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i3/121163002/TB2NoBogpXXXXahXpXXXXXXXXXX_!!121163002.jpg
where the + leads of both the "DC in" and the load are connected
together. The only ways I could make it work in a negative ground
system was either an isolated power source, isolated load, separate
isolated power supply to run the meter, or a DC-DC inverter.

That would be a show stopper in most applications. Got to have high-side
current sensing.

Impediment, not show stopper. What most users have done after turning
the + wire into an impromptu fuse, is to install a small isolated DC
to DC inverter. The problem is that the current measuring part of the
circuit needs to have some source of power to run the devices used. If
one part of that power source happens to be grounded to either the +
or - input of the voltage measuring part, it won't work. So, the
vendor recommends either floating the input or output grounds, using
independent volt and amp meters, or using an isolated power supply to
power the conglomerated meter. I know that one can get such DC to DC
inverters quite cheaply, but I haven't bothered to search for them.
I'll post something if I find one as I think it might be useful for
your battery pack and dynamo.


Digikey has lots of those. But when such extra measures are needed this
all gets old. Why can't they do high-side sensing? It ain't rocket science.


From a dynamo it's still feasible after things have
been turned to DC because the hub versions usually have two ground-free
terminals. Bottle dynamos unfortunately not. However, when doing MPPT
there already is a micro controller which can then also perform the job
of energy metering.

Yep. I've setup some cheap MPPT solar charge controllers (from eBay).
The better one's have extensive monitoring capabilities, usually on an
LCD or OLED display. If you're counting and budgeting coulombs, it's
a good way to do it.

I would not need that though, maybe just an
indicator of whether the dynamo is able to feed enough for a given light
setting.

Easy enough. The power output of the dynamo is directly proportional
to the RPM and unaffected by the load.


No really. Keep in mind the various losses.


... The load might change
radically, but the dynamo will only deliver XX watts at XX RPM. You
could just measure the RPM, build a lookup table in some kind of
NVRAM, and display the output power.


All I need is a sensitive voltmeter. That tells me whether my battery
juice is being consumed or juice is being added. I have seen waterproof
LED meters with two digits after the decimal point for less than $5.
This is what I am going to add some day. It will also let me see the
charge state before heading out on either bike.


Or, you could get fancy, measure the load voltage and current, and
calculate the power needed to run the lights or whatever. Then
compare the input power available, with the average output power
needed. If there's not enough input power available, you need to shed
some load, or pedal harder.


Nah, too fancy :-)


Even that is expendable if you have a voltmeter riding along
with the Li-Ion battery. In my case I'd just have to make sure it won't
get close to 7V where the electronics will eventually shut things off.

If you do go over, you might want to shed the load slowly or you might
lurch forward as pedaling suddenly becomes easier.


With a 10-15W load?


Nothing beats trying it on the bench, using a variable speed drill or
similar. I haven't observed a sharp knee effect on any of them so far.
Which probably explains the large number of bulbs I blew out in the 80's
when I had to get somewhere fast.

Yeah, I should do that. However, as I previously mumbled, I'm
overloaded, busy, lazy, and uninspired right now.


Same here. The MTB still needs to be fixed, taxes to be done, then there
is work, and right now I am busy with a much higher priority. I brewed a
Belgian Tripel this morning and this afternoon a Superior Strong Ale is
in the process.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

More About Lights
 

On 3/17/2017 12:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-17 12:11, sms wrote:
On 3/13/2017 12:28 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

You could stick in a Murata LXDC55FAAA-203
http://power.murata.com/data/power/LXDC55FAAA-203_data_sheet_E.pdf
instead of the zener and do a USB version also with only three parts.
But I know that you love designing your own switchers.


$3.50? Mon Dieu! :-)

I got some of the Murata LXDC55FAAA-203 units from Digikey for use at
work. I guess I didn't realize from the picture on the data sheet just
how tiny these things are. Maybe I'll buy some more and try building
some dynamo to USB adapters.


Be carful with that 16V abs max input limit. When the load current drops
this can easily be exceeded by a dynamo, big time. You could burn off
the excess with a zener diode or TVS (though _not_ MOV) but these have
large tolerances and could burn out if not well heat sinked.

I think you need somthing automotive here, some circuit that can stomach
50V or more.

I'd just stick a 15V 5W zener in there for the rare times that the
dynamo is exceeding 11VAC. If I were going to sell these I'd do
something more robust.

More About Lights
 

On 3/17/2017 1:09 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-16 15:07, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:20:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

There is no need for 27.5W but there is for 8-10W. That should be
reasonably possible, else the dynamo would have smoked out during their
testing.

If all you're powering are head and tail lights, 10 watts should be
sufficient. However, if you're powering other devices (GPS,
smartphone, rear view camera, electric shifter, fog horn, etc), then
more power is better.


I also have to power an MP3 player. No smart phone since I won't likely
buy one until they can function as good as a GPS devise even while
off-grid.

We're already there. Lots of off-grid GPS/mapping apps. No need to use
data or have a data connection. Topos available too. Not free.

Is it as good as a dedicated GPS? Not really because the internal GPS
antenna on a phone is inferior, but for outdoors a phone is good enough.

You really need to get with the program and buy yourself an iPhone 7+,
and iPad Pro with LTE data, a Macbook, a Mac Pro, an Apple watch, and an
Apple TV. Wait a few months and drive down to Cupertino and buy
everything at the new Apple store.

More About Lights
 

On 2017-03-17 13:53, sms wrote:
On 3/17/2017 12:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-17 12:11, sms wrote:
On 3/13/2017 12:28 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

You could stick in a Murata LXDC55FAAA-203
http://power.murata.com/data/power/LXDC55FAAA-203_data_sheet_E.pdf
instead of the zener and do a USB version also with only three parts.
But I know that you love designing your own switchers.


$3.50? Mon Dieu! :-)

I got some of the Murata LXDC55FAAA-203 units from Digikey for use at
work. I guess I didn't realize from the picture on the data sheet just
how tiny these things are. Maybe I'll buy some more and try building
some dynamo to USB adapters.


Be carful with that 16V abs max input limit. When the load current drops
this can easily be exceeded by a dynamo, big time. You could burn off
the excess with a zener diode or TVS (though _not_ MOV) but these have
large tolerances and could burn out if not well heat sinked.

I think you need somthing automotive here, some circuit that can stomach
50V or more.

I'd just stick a 15V 5W zener in there for the rare times that the
dynamo is exceeding 11VAC. If I were going to sell these I'd do
something more robust.


And then you have to cool that zener. And hand-pick one because of
tolerance. Also, those things are soft. Better to build an "active
zener" with a TL431 and a transistor. However, I'd prefer a switch mode
regulator that can handle north of 50V because then you can capture all
the juice generated on that long downhill section. I have a few of those
when riding into towns west of here. On the way back, of course, it's
sweating and suppressed cussing because those 1000+ feet have to be
gained back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

More About Lights
 

On 2017-03-17 13:59, sms wrote:
On 3/17/2017 1:09 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-16 15:07, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 10:20:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

There is no need for 27.5W but there is for 8-10W. That should be
reasonably possible, else the dynamo would have smoked out during their
testing.

If all you're powering are head and tail lights, 10 watts should be
sufficient. However, if you're powering other devices (GPS,
smartphone, rear view camera, electric shifter, fog horn, etc), then
more power is better.


I also have to power an MP3 player. No smart phone since I won't likely
buy one until they can function as good as a GPS devise even while
off-grid.

We're already there. Lots of off-grid GPS/mapping apps. No need to use
data or have a data connection. Topos available too. Not free.


If it's reasonably priced it is ok. However, every time I asked dirt
bikers who venture out into the sticks in Nevada they said that they
tried their smart phones but that it really doesn't work well without a
Garmin or other native GPS device.


Is it as good as a dedicated GPS? Not really because the internal GPS
antenna on a phone is inferior, but for outdoors a phone is good enough.


It is quite mountainous out here and that might be the problem.


You really need to get with the program and buy yourself an iPhone 7+,
and iPad Pro with LTE data, a Macbook, a Mac Pro, an Apple watch, and an
Apple TV. Wait a few months and drive down to Cupertino and buy
everything at the new Apple store.


Only over my dead body :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

More About Lights
 

On 3/17/2017 8:00 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-17 13:53, sms wrote:
On 3/17/2017 12:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-17 12:11, sms wrote:
On 3/13/2017 12:28 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

You could stick in a Murata LXDC55FAAA-203
http://power.murata.com/data/power/LXDC55FAAA-203_data_sheet_E.pdf
instead of the zener and do a USB version also with only three parts.
But I know that you love designing your own switchers.


$3.50? Mon Dieu! :-)

I got some of the Murata LXDC55FAAA-203 units from Digikey for use at
work. I guess I didn't realize from the picture on the data sheet just
how tiny these things are. Maybe I'll buy some more and try building
some dynamo to USB adapters.


Be carful with that 16V abs max input limit. When the load current drops
this can easily be exceeded by a dynamo, big time. You could burn off
the excess with a zener diode or TVS (though _not_ MOV) but these have
large tolerances and could burn out if not well heat sinked.

I think you need somthing automotive here, some circuit that can stomach
50V or more.

I'd just stick a 15V 5W zener in there for the rare times that the
dynamo is exceeding 11VAC. If I were going to sell these I'd do
something more robust.


And then you have to cool that zener. And hand-pick one because of
tolerance. Also, those things are soft. Better to build an "active
zener" with a TL431 and a transistor. However, I'd prefer a switch mode
regulator that can handle north of 50V because then you can capture all
the juice generated on that long downhill section. I have a few of those
when riding into towns west of here. On the way back, of course, it's
sweating and suppressed cussing because those 1000+ feet have to be
gained back.

If you're trying to charge USB devices, you should at least look at this
design:

http://fahrradzukunft.de/12/minimal-lader/

It seems to be much simpler than what you're considering.


--
- Frank Krygowski

More About Lights
 

On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 7:00:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/17/2017 8:00 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-17 13:53, sms wrote:
On 3/17/2017 12:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-17 12:11, sms wrote:
On 3/13/2017 12:28 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

You could stick in a Murata LXDC55FAAA-203
http://power.murata.com/data/power/LXDC55FAAA-203_data_sheet_E.pdf
instead of the zener and do a USB version also with only three parts.
But I know that you love designing your own switchers.


$3.50? Mon Dieu! :-)

I got some of the Murata LXDC55FAAA-203 units from Digikey for use at
work. I guess I didn't realize from the picture on the data sheet just
how tiny these things are. Maybe I'll buy some more and try building
some dynamo to USB adapters.


Be carful with that 16V abs max input limit. When the load current drops
this can easily be exceeded by a dynamo, big time. You could burn off
the excess with a zener diode or TVS (though _not_ MOV) but these have
large tolerances and could burn out if not well heat sinked.

I think you need somthing automotive here, some circuit that can stomach
50V or more.

I'd just stick a 15V 5W zener in there for the rare times that the
dynamo is exceeding 11VAC. If I were going to sell these I'd do
something more robust.


And then you have to cool that zener. And hand-pick one because of
tolerance. Also, those things are soft. Better to build an "active
zener" with a TL431 and a transistor. However, I'd prefer a switch mode
regulator that can handle north of 50V because then you can capture all
the juice generated on that long downhill section. I have a few of those
when riding into towns west of here. On the way back, of course, it's
sweating and suppressed cussing because those 1000+ feet have to be
gained back.

If you're trying to charge USB devices, you should at least look at this
design:

http://fahrradzukunft.de/12/minimal-lader/

It seems to be much simpler than what you're considering.

I use this device: http://images.wisegeek.com/standard-us-power-outlet.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

More About Lights
 

On 3/17/2017 10:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 7:00:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/17/2017 8:00 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-17 13:53, sms wrote:
On 3/17/2017 12:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-17 12:11, sms wrote:
On 3/13/2017 12:28 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

You could stick in a Murata LXDC55FAAA-203
http://power.murata.com/data/power/LXDC55FAAA-203_data_sheet_E.pdf
instead of the zener and do a USB version also with only three parts.
But I know that you love designing your own switchers.


$3.50? Mon Dieu! :-)

I got some of the Murata LXDC55FAAA-203 units from Digikey for use at
work. I guess I didn't realize from the picture on the data sheet just
how tiny these things are. Maybe I'll buy some more and try building
some dynamo to USB adapters.


Be carful with that 16V abs max input limit. When the load current drops
this can easily be exceeded by a dynamo, big time. You could burn off
the excess with a zener diode or TVS (though _not_ MOV) but these have
large tolerances and could burn out if not well heat sinked.

I think you need somthing automotive here, some circuit that can stomach
50V or more.

I'd just stick a 15V 5W zener in there for the rare times that the
dynamo is exceeding 11VAC. If I were going to sell these I'd do
something more robust.


And then you have to cool that zener. And hand-pick one because of
tolerance. Also, those things are soft. Better to build an "active
zener" with a TL431 and a transistor. However, I'd prefer a switch mode
regulator that can handle north of 50V because then you can capture all
the juice generated on that long downhill section. I have a few of those
when riding into towns west of here. On the way back, of course, it's
sweating and suppressed cussing because those 1000+ feet have to be
gained back.

If you're trying to charge USB devices, you should at least look at this
design:

http://fahrradzukunft.de/12/minimal-lader/

It seems to be much simpler than what you're considering.

I use this device: http://images.wisegeek.com/standard-us-power-outlet.jpg

It's not very portable.



--
- Frank Krygowski

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On 2017-03-17 20:50, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/17/2017 10:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 7:00:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/17/2017 8:00 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-17 13:53, sms wrote:
On 3/17/2017 12:58 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-17 12:11, sms wrote:
On 3/13/2017 12:28 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

You could stick in a Murata LXDC55FAAA-203
http://power.murata.com/data/power/LXDC55FAAA-203_data_sheet_E.pdf

instead of the zener and do a USB version also with only three
parts.
But I know that you love designing your own switchers.


$3.50? Mon Dieu! :-)

I got some of the Murata LXDC55FAAA-203 units from Digikey for
use at
work. I guess I didn't realize from the picture on the data sheet
just
how tiny these things are. Maybe I'll buy some more and try building
some dynamo to USB adapters.


Be carful with that 16V abs max input limit. When the load current
drops
this can easily be exceeded by a dynamo, big time. You could burn off
the excess with a zener diode or TVS (though _not_ MOV) but these
have
large tolerances and could burn out if not well heat sinked.

I think you need somthing automotive here, some circuit that can
stomach
50V or more.

I'd just stick a 15V 5W zener in there for the rare times that the
dynamo is exceeding 11VAC. If I were going to sell these I'd do
something more robust.


And then you have to cool that zener. And hand-pick one because of
tolerance. Also, those things are soft. Better to build an "active
zener" with a TL431 and a transistor. However, I'd prefer a switch mode
regulator that can handle north of 50V because then you can capture all
the juice generated on that long downhill section. I have a few of
those
when riding into towns west of here. On the way back, of course, it's
sweating and suppressed cussing because those 1000+ feet have to be
gained back.

If you're trying to charge USB devices, you should at least look at this
design:

http://fahrradzukunft.de/12/minimal-lader/

It seems to be much simpler than what you're considering.


A zener diode is not a suitable device to limit USB voltage. The upper
limit in the standard is 5.25V.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB

He should have at least a TL431 with a transistor as a shunt in there.

Anyhow, that is not why I'd invest in a hub dynamo some day. I want it
to be able to supply my 8.2V power bus on the road bike and charge its
Li-Ion battery pack. The MTB has the same but that will unlikely ever
get a hub dynamo. The smart thing is to at least have poor man's MPPT
and for USB provide a decent secondary regulator, preferably switch-mode
as well.


I use this device:
http://images.wisegeek.com/standard-us-power-outlet.jpg

It's not very portable.


I had some on my road bike a couple of weeks ago. Along with other
electrical gear I bought for a rework session.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 17:03:19 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

However, every time I asked dirt
bikers who venture out into the sticks in Nevada they said that they
tried their smart phones but that it really doesn't work well without a
Garmin or other native GPS device.

I've had the same experience when I try to run the GPS in "airplane
mode". The GPS uses location data from the cell sites (AGPS) to
improve its E911 accuracy and shorten acquisition time. Turn off the
cellular part of the phone, or try to use GPS in an area where there
are no cell sites is a problem.

"Using an Android GPS in Airplane Mode"
http://backcountrynavigator.com/using-android-gps-airplane-mode/

There are also issues with the antenna. Size matters and the bigger
patch antennas used in handheld GPS receivers offers much better
sensitivity and view of the sky.

I have a collection of about 10 assorted GPS receivers. Occasionally,
I do a comparison of performance in challenging areas (hills,
mountains, trees, indoors, underground garages, highly reflective
environments, RF polluted environments, etc). If I have a nearby cell
site to use as a starting or reference point, my Moto G smartphone
does quite well. My Samsung S6, not so well but good enough. However,
if I go into "airplane mode" to save battery power, performance sucks.
The main problem is that without the position sanity check provided by
AGPS, the smartphone GPS will produce wildly erratic positions caused
by reflections, often miles away from my actual location. Some of the
handheld mapping GPS receivers do the same thing, but not as badly.

There is also some mapping trickery involved when using maps and AGPS.
In order to improve (or fake) accuracy for E911, mapping smartphone
apps like to round off positions to coincide with a roadway. It's a
fair assumption that someone using a GPS map program would be on some
kind of road. That's great, until you ride off the road and your GPS
tracker thinks you're still on the roadway. So far, it hasn't been a
problem.

You really need to get with the program and buy yourself an iPhone 7+,

Only over my dead body :-)

I'll resist the temptation to say something clever about your
destructive testing methods.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 14:08:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Thing is, nobody's demonstrated any need for so much stationary "be
seen" light, beyond the usual "well, it _could_ happen" safety inflation
mentality.

True, but you're thinking like engineering, not marketing. Modern
devices and electronics are crammed full of useless features. For
example, my smartphone has hidden features that I don't know exist,
much less know how to use them. Same with my fancy scientific
calculator, where 99% of my use is simple arithmetic. If you could
customize a product to do only what you need, only what's necessary,
or only what is useful, it wouldn't sell. People buy products based
on features, even if they're useless, not needed, and un-necessary. In
some market sectors, marketing a product is an exercise in feature
pollution. In the trade press, products are compared with tables of
features. Failure to check the a box because some useless feature is
missing will produce an inferior reviewer rating.

A standlight, flashing light, blinding intensity, programmable
settings, battery indicator, laser bug zapper, etc are all useless
features that nobody needs. Yet, they sell products, so they are
included. If you read the Oculus patent (BarryBeams):
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8662697B2/en
you'll find that he threw in a horn and siren, items which are of
dubious value. Why? Because they provided the necessary product
differentiation that makes his light different from the competitors.

If there is a feature of dubious value, it won't be the safety
statistics that determine whether it gets included or trashed. It
will be the sales statistics. If it sells, it's good, no matter how
dumb or useless. It appears that the Pet Rock of bicycling may
eventually be the bicycle lighting system. I can't wait.

We're facing the same mentality regarding our local forest preserve.
Some people want to cut down every dead or dying tree within 100 feet of
any trail because, well, it _could_ fall on somebody and kill them. Sheesh.

Yep. We had a popular local river park closed because it was deemed
hazardous even though the only injury was a drunk transient who tried
to cross the river by doing a balancing act on the very narrow steel
dam.

It's not the falling tree that does the damage. It's the subsequent
litigation.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:45:13 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Sure. Safety inflation is a real thing. Ten years ago, walking on a
sidewalk did not trigger a need for a luminous vest. Now I see people
wearing those things even on sidewalks.

So why the change?

I blame the internet. One of the benefits of the internet is the
sheer volume of news available. Before the internet, people would get
their news from newspapers, magazines, radio, and TV. There was quite
a bit there, but nothing compared to the volume and detail provided by
the internet. News items that would have been relegated to the back
pages of a newspaper and delays sufficient to make an item irrelivent
were common. Now, we get it all, including the trivia, instantly.

In the past, if someone got hit while walking in the dark, it would
never even make the back pages. It was a non-event that nobody was
interested in reading. Today, it's front page news, along with an
associated conspiracy theory, a call for safer streets, quotes from
unknown experts, and Google Ads for various safety products. In other
words, even minor news sells products. Vest, festooned with
reflectors and flashing LEDs are selling nicely because the GUM (great
unwashed masses) are not aware that walking in the dark is risky.
While the vests are unlikely to solve the problem, they do help and
are cheap enough.

Is it because it's really gotten so much more
dangerous? I doubt it. Pedestrian fatalities did jump up a bit in the
last year for which I find NHTSA data (2014) but they jumped up to a
number less than the one for 2004.

This is older but it looks like the trend is toward fewer pedestrian
fatalities:
https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/pssp/background/psafety.cfm
"About two-thirds (67 percent) of pedestrian fatalities
occurred at night."
Probably dropping because more people are driving these days than
walking.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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On 3/18/2017 2:29 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 14:08:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Thing is, nobody's demonstrated any need for so much stationary "be
seen" light, beyond the usual "well, it _could_ happen" safety inflation
mentality.

True, but you're thinking like engineering, not marketing.

I do have too strong of a tendency to do that.

See http://dilbert.com/strip/2014-12-18

That has a place of honor on our refrigerator door.

--
- Frank Krygowski

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On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 3:12:02 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/18/2017 2:29 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 14:08:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Thing is, nobody's demonstrated any need for so much stationary "be
seen" light, beyond the usual "well, it _could_ happen" safety inflation
mentality.

True, but you're thinking like engineering, not marketing.

I do have too strong of a tendency to do that.

See http://dilbert.com/strip/2014-12-18

That has a place of honor on our refrigerator door.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Many many years ago I read an article and also books on bicycling that stated thatthe two most dangerous p;aces to ride a bicycle was #1 a parking lot and #2 an intersection. So, you guys are saying that having a bright standlight right where a lot of bicycling accidents happen (at an intersection) is a bad thing? I don't know about you but I like to know that a driver coming towards me at night whilst I'm stopped at an intersection can at least see my bicycle light.
YMMV Why not paint your bike flat black and wear flat black clothing or camouflage clothing if being visible to other road users is of so little consequence even when you're stopped and they are moving?

Cheers

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On 3/18/2017 11:46 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

While the vests are unlikely to solve the problem, they do help and
are cheap enough.

Will they 100% solve the problem? Of course not. Will they help?
Definitely. We've had fatalities in Silicon Valley of pedestrians
walking at night on roads with drivers that have not been charged
because they legitimately claimed that they just did not see the
pedestrians.

There's this false narrative out there of "if there's not been a
double-blind study done, then we should ignore common sense, because no
one has conclusively proven XYZ."

There's no study that proves that making yourself more conspicuous at
night (or in the daytime for that matter) makes it less likely that
someone will inadvertently run you over, though in this case you might
want to accept the empirical evidence, extrapolate data from related
relevant studies, and use some common sense. Or not--if you have an
agenda that you're pushing.

In fact there has been at least one study on DRLs for bicycles,
https://www.bikelight.ca/pages/safety-first-study.

If someone is expecting a graph of lumens or lux versus bicycle crashes,
then they will be waiting a long time.

The bottom line is what this article states: "You Have No Excuse Not to
Bike with a Light, Day or Night."
https://www.outsideonline.com/2064501/you-have-no-excuse-not-bike-light-day-or-night.

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On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 3:57:34 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
Snipped
The bottom line is what this article states: "You Have No Excuse Not to
Bike with a Light, Day or Night."
https://www.outsideonline.com/2064501/you-have-no-excuse-not-bike-light-day-or-night.

Except that on a sunny day most nearly every bicycle DRL is TOTALLY INVISIBLE compared to the bicycle + the rider. Heck at night I've seen bicycle bright red rear lights vanish from viwen in a queue of car lights. DRL for a bicycle might be useful on a dull or overcast day or in other dim light but they are NOT all that useful in bright or full daylight light. What's worse is that many who do use a DRL have a very false sense of security because they think a driver will see their light when in fact most lights are not bright enough to be seen easily in daylight and are only seen well AFTER the driver has seen the rider on the bicycle.

Do you get a kickback for selling DRL for bicycles?

Cheers

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On 3/18/2017 2:02 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 3:57:34 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
Snipped
The bottom line is what this article states: "You Have No Excuse Not to
Bike with a Light, Day or Night."
https://www.outsideonline.com/2064501/you-have-no-excuse-not-bike-light-day-or-night.

Except that on a sunny day most nearly every bicycle DRL is TOTALLY INVISIBLE compared to the bicycle + the rider.

That is demonstrably untrue.

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On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 5:21:00 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 3/18/2017 2:02 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 3:57:34 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
Snipped
The bottom line is what this article states: "You Have No Excuse Not to
Bike with a Light, Day or Night."
https://www.outsideonline.com/2064501/you-have-no-excuse-not-bike-light-day-or-night.

Except that on a sunny day most nearly every bicycle DRL is TOTALLY INVISIBLE compared to the bicycle + the rider.

That is demonstrably untrue.

HAH! I've seen many a bicycle DLR in use in the daytime and I've ONLY noticed the light AFTER I saw the bicycle and the rider. Thus, your assertion is demonstrably FALSE.

Cheers

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On 3/18/2017 2:25 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 5:21:00 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 3/18/2017 2:02 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 3:57:34 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
Snipped
The bottom line is what this article states: "You Have No Excuse Not to
Bike with a Light, Day or Night."
https://www.outsideonline.com/2064501/you-have-no-excuse-not-bike-light-day-or-night.

Except that on a sunny day most nearly every bicycle DRL is TOTALLY INVISIBLE compared to the bicycle + the rider.

That is demonstrably untrue.

HAH! I've seen many a bicycle DLR in use in the daytime and I've ONLY noticed the light AFTER I saw the bicycle and the rider. Thus, your assertion is demonstrably FALSE.

LOL, the world does not revolve around what YOU have noticed personally.

In the Odense study, cyclists with daytime bicycle lights had 32% fewer
accidents than the control group. The effect was particularly noticeable
during the summer season when the reduction is up to 40%. So it's when
the sun is brighter that there is even more of an advantage to DRLs.

You can see the same thing in your own town. It's especially noticeable
when cyclists are in a bicycle lane, closer to the curb than in a
traffic lane. They tend to blend in with the other stuff on the right
side of the road, such as parked cars.

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On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 5:38:36 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 3/18/2017 2:25 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 5:21:00 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 3/18/2017 2:02 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 3:57:34 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
Snipped
The bottom line is what this article states: "You Have No Excuse Not to
Bike with a Light, Day or Night."
https://www.outsideonline.com/2064501/you-have-no-excuse-not-bike-light-day-or-night.

Except that on a sunny day most nearly every bicycle DRL is TOTALLY INVISIBLE compared to the bicycle + the rider.

That is demonstrably untrue.

HAH! I've seen many a bicycle DLR in use in the daytime and I've ONLY noticed the light AFTER I saw the bicycle and the rider. Thus, your assertion is demonstrably FALSE.

LOL, the world does not revolve around what YOU have noticed personally.

In the Odense study, cyclists with daytime bicycle lights had 32% fewer
accidents than the control group. The effect was particularly noticeable
during the summer season when the reduction is up to 40%. So it's when
the sun is brighter that there is even more of an advantage to DRLs.

You can see the same thing in your own town. It's especially noticeable
when cyclists are in a bicycle lane, closer to the curb than in a
traffic lane. They tend to blend in with the other stuff on the right
side of the road, such as parked cars.

BUNK!