Tubeless Tires
 

A couple of months ago I was struck by a car that decided four way stop intersections were not what they meant. I had come to a complete stop and allowed ALL of the traffic to pass and started across. I got 2/3eds of the way across and the woman who had been behind a pickup I let pass rolled the stop sign and accelerated directly into me. She was obviously distracted but the old bat might have been having her first clear shot at a bike for all I know.

In any case perhaps I should start from the beginning - back around 2008 I bought a new Time VX Elite carbon fiber bike. With the normal 120 psi 23 mm tires it was completely un-ridable. It was so stiff it would hammer your balls through your skull on the first bump. So it went up on the shelf. I removed the components and used them elsewhere and that frame just sat there. Anyway I decided to put it back together and since the latest fad is fat tires I put 28 mm Michelin Krylon Endurance on them. What an F-ING difference! With the fat tires it is one of the best rides I've ever had.

My Pinarello Stelvio was the one I was riding when I was hit and while the frame and fork came though OK every component on the bike was broken.

I had Campy Scirroco CX wheels on it and I discovered that I HATE aero wheels with a passion. Since her insurance company was paying for it I bought a set of Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels that were last year's and on clearance. When they arrived they were already set up for Tubeless. Well, I had been wanting to try that as well.


The older steel bikes won't fit fat tires so the largest that would fit are 25's. I installed the tires on the wheels. I had bought 4 ounce bottle of Orange sealant which was the best in the tests I read.


Now the tires will not go onto the rims because they are a bit tight. So first I put the filler at the bottom and using a Park Valve Tool I removed the valve head. Pumped in 2 ounces of Orange then turned the wheel perhaps 1/8th of a turn so that when you release the squeeze bottle it doesn't suck the sealant back in. Then I hit it with a CO2 cartridge. POP!!! it was on and I rotated the wheel while laying it on one side and then the other since initial leaks are from the tire and rim not being a perfect fit.


Every morning I had to pump the tires up until I finally took it for a ride and that fit the tires well onto the rim and the bumps packed sealant into any voids.


Now the tires with tubes would normally run around 110 lbs and be not very easy riding. But now I ride between 60 and 80 psi (letting the pressure go down over a week before refilling).

The ride is exceptional. With the higher pressure they are sort of bouncy so fast downhills can be scary. With the lower pressure the rolling resistance doesn't seem to increase detectably. Riding with guys with the high pressure tube tires I find myself coasting while they are pedaling.

Not to mention they cannot get a pinch flat and with the sealant they cannot get flats. So I can leave that damn 2 lb flat kit at home and just take a multitool and a CO2 cartridge and filler just in case I get a large enough hole that the tire gets too soft before sealing. And I doubt I'll ever need that.

So if you've had any questions about how tubeless works I am quite satisfied with it after a couple of months.

Now I ride sport bikes and I don't know that this would be a good idea for 32 mm commuter tires. Though probably, because they talk about using them for CX tires which have a lot of pinch flat problems. But these normally run higher pressures than you would with a tube in it. There's always the possibility of it blowing the tire off of the rim unless you're using Mavic tires and rims specifically designed to work together tubeless. As far as I know Mavic are the only people to have "systems" designed.

Tubeless Tires
 

On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 17:39:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

A couple of months ago I was struck by a car that decided four way stop intersections were not what they meant. I had come to a complete stop and allowed ALL of the traffic to pass and started across. I got 2/3eds of the way across and the woman who had been behind a pickup I let pass rolled the stop sign and accelerated directly into me. She was obviously distracted but the old bat might have been having her first clear shot at a bike for all I know.

In any case perhaps I should start from the beginning - back around 2008 I bought a new Time VX Elite carbon fiber bike. With the normal 120 psi 23 mm tires it was completely un-ridable. It was so stiff it would hammer your balls through your skull on the first bump. So it went up on the shelf. I removed the components and used them elsewhere and that frame just sat there. Anyway I decided to put it back together and since the latest fad is fat tires I put 28 mm Michelin Krylon Endurance on them. What an F-ING difference! With the fat tires it is one of the best rides I've ever had.

My Pinarello Stelvio was the one I was riding when I was hit and while the frame and fork came though OK every component on the bike was broken.

I had Campy Scirroco CX wheels on it and I discovered that I HATE aero wheels with a passion. Since her insurance company was paying for it I bought a set of Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels that were last year's and on clearance. When they arrived they were already set up for Tubeless. Well, I had been wanting to try that as well.


The older steel bikes won't fit fat tires so the largest that would fit are 25's. I installed the tires on the wheels. I had bought 4 ounce bottle of Orange sealant which was the best in the tests I read.


Now the tires will not go onto the rims because they are a bit tight. So first I put the filler at the bottom and using a Park Valve Tool I removed the valve head. Pumped in 2 ounces of Orange then turned the wheel perhaps 1/8th of a turn so that when you release the squeeze bottle it doesn't suck the sealant back in. Then I hit it with a CO2 cartridge. POP!!! it was on and I rotated the wheel while laying it on one side and then the other since initial leaks are from the tire and rim not being a perfect fit.


Every morning I had to pump the tires up until I finally took it for a ride and that fit the tires well onto the rim and the bumps packed sealant into any voids.


Now the tires with tubes would normally run around 110 lbs and be not very easy riding. But now I ride between 60 and 80 psi (letting the pressure go down over a week before refilling).

The ride is exceptional. With the higher pressure they are sort of bouncy so fast downhills can be scary. With the lower pressure the rolling resistance doesn't seem to increase detectably. Riding with guys with the high pressure tube tires I find myself coasting while they are pedaling.

Not to mention they cannot get a pinch flat and with the sealant they cannot get flats. So I can leave that damn 2 lb flat kit at home and just take a multitool and a CO2 cartridge and filler just in case I get a large enough hole that the tire gets too soft before sealing. And I doubt I'll ever need that.

So if you've had any questions about how tubeless works I am quite satisfied with it after a couple of months.

Now I ride sport bikes and I don't know that this would be a good idea for 32 mm commuter tires. Though probably, because they talk about using them for CX tires which have a lot of pinch flat problems. But these normally run higher pressures than you would with a tube in it. There's always the possibility of it blowing the tire off of the rim unless you're using Mavic tires and rims specifically designed to work together tubeless. As far as I know Mavic are the only people to have "systems" designed.

One, off topic comment. Regardless of what a tire says on the side
there are optimum inflation pressures that are usually lower then the
numbers on the side walls - 110 psi - 120 psi.

Look up one of the numerous weight/pressure tables and try the
recommended pressure. You'd be surprised how comfortable they are.

I'm a little guy, 61 Kg and I usually run ~75 psi for the usual city
streets.

Tubeless Tires
 

wrote:
A couple of months ago I was struck by a car that decided four way stop
intersections were not what they meant. I had come to a complete stop and
allowed ALL of the traffic to pass and started across. I got 2/3eds of
the way across and the woman who had been behind a pickup I let pass
rolled the stop sign and accelerated directly into me. She was obviously
distracted but the old bat might have been having her first clear shot at
a bike for all I know.

In any case perhaps I should start from the beginning - back around 2008
I bought a new Time VX Elite carbon fiber bike. With the normal 120 psi
23 mm tires it was completely un-ridable. It was so stiff it would hammer
your balls through your skull on the first bump. So it went up on the
shelf. I removed the components and used them elsewhere and that frame
just sat there. Anyway I decided to put it back together and since the
latest fad is fat tires I put 28 mm Michelin Krylon Endurance on them.
What an F-ING difference! With the fat tires it is one of the best rides I've ever had.

My Pinarello Stelvio was the one I was riding when I was hit and while
the frame and fork came though OK every component on the bike was broken.

I had Campy Scirroco CX wheels on it and I discovered that I HATE aero
wheels with a passion. Since her insurance company was paying for it I
bought a set of Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels that were last year's and on
clearance. When they arrived they were already set up for Tubeless. Well,
I had been wanting to try that as well.


The older steel bikes won't fit fat tires so the largest that would fit
are 25's. I installed the tires on the wheels. I had bought 4 ounce
bottle of Orange sealant which was the best in the tests I read.


Now the tires will not go onto the rims because they are a bit tight. So
first I put the filler at the bottom and using a Park Valve Tool I
removed the valve head. Pumped in 2 ounces of Orange then turned the
wheel perhaps 1/8th of a turn so that when you release the squeeze bottle
it doesn't suck the sealant back in. Then I hit it with a CO2 cartridge.
POP!!! it was on and I rotated the wheel while laying it on one side and
then the other since initial leaks are from the tire and rim not being a perfect fit.


Every morning I had to pump the tires up until I finally took it for a
ride and that fit the tires well onto the rim and the bumps packed sealant into any voids.


Now the tires with tubes would normally run around 110 lbs and be not
very easy riding. But now I ride between 60 and 80 psi (letting the
pressure go down over a week before refilling).

The ride is exceptional. With the higher pressure they are sort of bouncy
so fast downhills can be scary. With the lower pressure the rolling
resistance doesn't seem to increase detectably. Riding with guys with the
high pressure tube tires I find myself coasting while they are pedaling.

Not to mention they cannot get a pinch flat and with the sealant they
cannot get flats. So I can leave that damn 2 lb flat kit at home and just
take a multitool and a CO2 cartridge and filler just in case I get a
large enough hole that the tire gets too soft before sealing. And I doubt
I'll ever need that.

So if you've had any questions about how tubeless works I am quite
satisfied with it after a couple of months.

Now I ride sport bikes and I don't know that this would be a good idea
for 32 mm commuter tires. Though probably, because they talk about using
them for CX tires which have a lot of pinch flat problems. But these
normally run higher pressures than you would with a tube in it. There's
always the possibility of it blowing the tire off of the rim unless
you're using Mavic tires and rims specifically designed to work together
tubeless. As far as I know Mavic are the only people to have "systems" designed.

I’d agree with other comment that potentially you where running too high
pressures with tubes, my only road bike now is a gravel bike with 32mm
tyres which sweet spot with tubes is 60psi ie soft enough to conform to the
road, with out squirming or dinging the rim, tubeless and on road the risk
of pinch punctures etc is much lower than gravel/bridleway hacking so you
could drop a fair bit lower.

Though lot is personal feel I hate the squirm of low pressure tyres, on the
MTB I don’t drop below 30psi.

For commuting tyres, which tend to be stiff, hard wearing, puncture proof
things. Tubeless doesn’t really offer much.

I did toy with the idea of Tubeless for my new job location as though it’s
parks and segregated bike lanes, it’s also littered with large amounts of
broken glass/bottles etc. Even the Marathon Plus Touring though not
punctured have picked up some impressive war wounds.

Roger Merriman

Tubeless Tires
 

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 10:15:02 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 17:39:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

A couple of months ago I was struck by a car that decided four way stop intersections were not what they meant. I had come to a complete stop and allowed ALL of the traffic to pass and started across. I got 2/3eds of the way across and the woman who had been behind a pickup I let pass rolled the stop sign and accelerated directly into me. She was obviously distracted but the old bat might have been having her first clear shot at a bike for all I know.

In any case perhaps I should start from the beginning - back around 2008 I bought a new Time VX Elite carbon fiber bike. With the normal 120 psi 23 mm tires it was completely un-ridable. It was so stiff it would hammer your balls through your skull on the first bump. So it went up on the shelf. I removed the components and used them elsewhere and that frame just sat there. Anyway I decided to put it back together and since the latest fad is fat tires I put 28 mm Michelin Krylon Endurance on them. What an F-ING difference! With the fat tires it is one of the best rides I've ever had.

My Pinarello Stelvio was the one I was riding when I was hit and while the frame and fork came though OK every component on the bike was broken.

I had Campy Scirroco CX wheels on it and I discovered that I HATE aero wheels with a passion. Since her insurance company was paying for it I bought a set of Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels that were last year's and on clearance. When they arrived they were already set up for Tubeless. Well, I had been wanting to try that as well.


The older steel bikes won't fit fat tires so the largest that would fit are 25's. I installed the tires on the wheels. I had bought 4 ounce bottle of Orange sealant which was the best in the tests I read.


Now the tires will not go onto the rims because they are a bit tight. So first I put the filler at the bottom and using a Park Valve Tool I removed the valve head. Pumped in 2 ounces of Orange then turned the wheel perhaps 1/8th of a turn so that when you release the squeeze bottle it doesn't suck the sealant back in. Then I hit it with a CO2 cartridge. POP!!! it was on and I rotated the wheel while laying it on one side and then the other since initial leaks are from the tire and rim not being a perfect fit.


Every morning I had to pump the tires up until I finally took it for a ride and that fit the tires well onto the rim and the bumps packed sealant into any voids.


Now the tires with tubes would normally run around 110 lbs and be not very easy riding. But now I ride between 60 and 80 psi (letting the pressure go down over a week before refilling).

The ride is exceptional. With the higher pressure they are sort of bouncy so fast downhills can be scary. With the lower pressure the rolling resistance doesn't seem to increase detectably. Riding with guys with the high pressure tube tires I find myself coasting while they are pedaling.

Not to mention they cannot get a pinch flat and with the sealant they cannot get flats. So I can leave that damn 2 lb flat kit at home and just take a multitool and a CO2 cartridge and filler just in case I get a large enough hole that the tire gets too soft before sealing. And I doubt I'll ever need that.

So if you've had any questions about how tubeless works I am quite satisfied with it after a couple of months.

Now I ride sport bikes and I don't know that this would be a good idea for 32 mm commuter tires. Though probably, because they talk about using them for CX tires which have a lot of pinch flat problems. But these normally run higher pressures than you would with a tube in it. There's always the possibility of it blowing the tire off of the rim unless you're using Mavic tires and rims specifically designed to work together tubeless. As far as I know Mavic are the only people to have "systems" designed.

One, off topic comment. Regardless of what a tire says on the side
there are optimum inflation pressures that are usually lower then the
numbers on the side walls - 110 psi - 120 psi.

Look up one of the numerous weight/pressure tables and try the
recommended pressure. You'd be surprised how comfortable they are.

I'm a little guy, 61 Kg and I usually run ~75 psi for the usual city
streets.

1. The tire manufacturer supplies a list of advised pressures for rider weight.
2. The advised pressure for my weight on a 25 mm Michelin is 108-110 psi.
3. And with over 80,000 ft of climbing and over 2,500 miles so far this year despite a couple of prime months lost to weather or medical problems leaves me at over 82 kgs.

I have a problem understanding what sort of riding you people are doing. Joerg and I seem to ride in the same manner as does (or did) Joy. 32 mm tires are for Cross or Gravel bikes. Why would you ride a high rolling resistance tire on a commuter which operates in the speed regime where rolling resistance is the prime source of friction?

Tubeless Tires
 

On 7/27/2018 3:13 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 10:15:02 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 17:39:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

A couple of months ago I was struck by a car that decided four way stop intersections were not what they meant. I had come to a complete stop and allowed ALL of the traffic to pass and started across. I got 2/3eds of the way across and the woman who had been behind a pickup I let pass rolled the stop sign and accelerated directly into me. She was obviously distracted but the old bat might have been having her first clear shot at a bike for all I know.

In any case perhaps I should start from the beginning - back around 2008 I bought a new Time VX Elite carbon fiber bike. With the normal 120 psi 23 mm tires it was completely un-ridable. It was so stiff it would hammer your balls through your skull on the first bump. So it went up on the shelf. I removed the components and used them elsewhere and that frame just sat there. Anyway I decided to put it back together and since the latest fad is fat tires I put 28 mm Michelin Krylon Endurance on them. What an F-ING difference! With the fat tires it is one of the best rides I've ever had.

My Pinarello Stelvio was the one I was riding when I was hit and while the frame and fork came though OK every component on the bike was broken.

I had Campy Scirroco CX wheels on it and I discovered that I HATE aero wheels with a passion. Since her insurance company was paying for it I bought a set of Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels that were last year's and on clearance. When they arrived they were already set up for Tubeless. Well, I had been wanting to try that as well.


The older steel bikes won't fit fat tires so the largest that would fit are 25's. I installed the tires on the wheels. I had bought 4 ounce bottle of Orange sealant which was the best in the tests I read.


Now the tires will not go onto the rims because they are a bit tight. So first I put the filler at the bottom and using a Park Valve Tool I removed the valve head. Pumped in 2 ounces of Orange then turned the wheel perhaps 1/8th of a turn so that when you release the squeeze bottle it doesn't suck the sealant back in. Then I hit it with a CO2 cartridge. POP!!! it was on and I rotated the wheel while laying it on one side and then the other since initial leaks are from the tire and rim not being a perfect fit.


Every morning I had to pump the tires up until I finally took it for a ride and that fit the tires well onto the rim and the bumps packed sealant into any voids.


Now the tires with tubes would normally run around 110 lbs and be not very easy riding. But now I ride between 60 and 80 psi (letting the pressure go down over a week before refilling).

The ride is exceptional. With the higher pressure they are sort of bouncy so fast downhills can be scary. With the lower pressure the rolling resistance doesn't seem to increase detectably. Riding with guys with the high pressure tube tires I find myself coasting while they are pedaling.

Not to mention they cannot get a pinch flat and with the sealant they cannot get flats. So I can leave that damn 2 lb flat kit at home and just take a multitool and a CO2 cartridge and filler just in case I get a large enough hole that the tire gets too soft before sealing. And I doubt I'll ever need that.

So if you've had any questions about how tubeless works I am quite satisfied with it after a couple of months.

Now I ride sport bikes and I don't know that this would be a good idea for 32 mm commuter tires. Though probably, because they talk about using them for CX tires which have a lot of pinch flat problems. But these normally run higher pressures than you would with a tube in it. There's always the possibility of it blowing the tire off of the rim unless you're using Mavic tires and rims specifically designed to work together tubeless. As far as I know Mavic are the only people to have "systems" designed.

One, off topic comment. Regardless of what a tire says on the side
there are optimum inflation pressures that are usually lower then the
numbers on the side walls - 110 psi - 120 psi.

Look up one of the numerous weight/pressure tables and try the
recommended pressure. You'd be surprised how comfortable they are.

I'm a little guy, 61 Kg and I usually run ~75 psi for the usual city
streets.

1. The tire manufacturer supplies a list of advised pressures for rider weight.
2. The advised pressure for my weight on a 25 mm Michelin is 108-110 psi.
3. And with over 80,000 ft of climbing and over 2,500 miles so far this year despite a couple of prime months lost to weather or medical problems leaves me at over 82 kgs.

I have a problem understanding what sort of riding you people are doing. Joerg and I seem to ride in the same manner as does (or did) Joy. 32 mm tires are for Cross or Gravel bikes. Why would you ride a high rolling resistance tire on a commuter which operates in the speed regime where rolling resistance is the prime source of friction?

I'm not certain, but you seem to be implying that 25mm tires must roll
easier than 25mm tires. I don't believe that's the case.

https://road.cc/content/feature/1825...ch-wider-tyres

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/...es-are-slower/

https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_i...ing_resistance


--
- Frank Krygowski

Tubeless Tires
 

On 7/27/2018 7:36 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 3:13 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 10:15:02 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 17:39:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

A couple of months ago I was struck by a car that decided four way
stop intersections were not what they meant. I had come to a
complete stop and allowed ALL of the traffic to pass and started
across. I got 2/3eds of the way across and the woman who had been
behind a pickup I let pass rolled the stop sign and accelerated
directly into me. She was obviously distracted but the old bat might
have been having her first clear shot at a bike for all I know.

In any case perhaps I should start from the beginning - back around
2008 I bought a new Time VX Elite carbon fiber bike. With the normal
120 psi 23 mm tires it was completely un-ridable. It was so stiff it
would hammer your balls through your skull on the first bump. So it
went up on the shelf. I removed the components and used them
elsewhere and that frame just sat there. Anyway I decided to put it
back together and since the latest fad is fat tires I put 28 mm
Michelin Krylon Endurance on them. What an F-ING difference! With
the fat tires it is one of the best rides I've ever had.

My Pinarello Stelvio was the one I was riding when I was hit and
while the frame and fork came though OK every component on the bike
was broken.

I had Campy Scirroco CX wheels on it and I discovered that I HATE
aero wheels with a passion. Since her insurance company was paying
for it I bought a set of Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels that were last
year's and on clearance. When they arrived they were already set up
for Tubeless. Well, I had been wanting to try that as well.


The older steel bikes won't fit fat tires so the largest that would
fit are 25's. I installed the tires on the wheels. I had bought 4
ounce bottle of Orange sealant which was the best in the tests I read.


Now the tires will not go onto the rims because they are a bit
tight. So first I put the filler at the bottom and using a Park
Valve Tool I removed the valve head. Pumped in 2 ounces of Orange
then turned the wheel perhaps 1/8th of a turn so that when you
release the squeeze bottle it doesn't suck the sealant back in. Then
I hit it with a CO2 cartridge. POP!!! it was on and I rotated the
wheel while laying it on one side and then the other since initial
leaks are from the tire and rim not being a perfect fit.


Every morning I had to pump the tires up until I finally took it for
a ride and that fit the tires well onto the rim and the bumps packed
sealant into any voids.


Now the tires with tubes would normally run around 110 lbs and be
not very easy riding. But now I ride between 60 and 80 psi (letting
the pressure go down over a week before refilling).

The ride is exceptional. With the higher pressure they are sort of
bouncy so fast downhills can be scary. With the lower pressure the
rolling resistance doesn't seem to increase detectably. Riding with
guys with the high pressure tube tires I find myself coasting while
they are pedaling.

Not to mention they cannot get a pinch flat and with the sealant
they cannot get flats. So I can leave that damn 2 lb flat kit at
home and just take a multitool and a CO2 cartridge and filler just
in case I get a large enough hole that the tire gets too soft before
sealing. And I doubt I'll ever need that.

So if you've had any questions about how tubeless works I am quite
satisfied with it after a couple of months.

Now I ride sport bikes and I don't know that this would be a good
idea for 32 mm commuter tires. Though probably, because they talk
about using them for CX tires which have a lot of pinch flat
problems. But these normally run higher pressures than you would
with a tube in it. There's always the possibility of it blowing the
tire off of the rim unless you're using Mavic tires and rims
specifically designed to work together tubeless. As far as I know
Mavic are the only people to have "systems" designed.

One, off topic comment. Regardless of what a tire says on the side
there are optimum inflation pressures that are usually lower then the
numbers on the side walls - 110 psi - 120 psi.

Look up one of the numerous weight/pressure tables and try the
recommended pressure. You'd be surprised how comfortable they are.

I'm a little guy, 61 Kg and I usually run ~75 psi for the usual city
streets.

1. The tire manufacturer supplies a list of advised pressures for
rider weight.
2. The advised pressure for my weight on a 25 mm Michelin is 108-110 psi.
3. And with over 80,000 ft of climbing and over 2,500 miles so far
this year despite a couple of prime months lost to weather or medical
problems leaves me at over 82 kgs.

I have a problem understanding what sort of riding you people are
doing. Joerg and I seem to ride in the same manner as does (or did)
Joy. 32 mm tires are for Cross or Gravel bikes. Why would you ride a
high rolling resistance tire on a commuter which operates in the speed
regime where rolling resistance is the prime source of friction?

I'm not certain, but you seem to be implying that 25mm tires must roll
easier than _32mm_ tires. I don't believe that's the case.

https://road.cc/content/feature/1825...ch-wider-tyres


https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/...es-are-slower/


https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_i...ing_resistance

Sorry, I corrected my typo. "you seem to be implying that 25mm tires
must roll easier than _32mm_ tires."


--
- Frank Krygowski

Tubeless Tires
 

On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 5:02:58 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 7:36 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 3:13 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 10:15:02 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 17:39:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

A couple of months ago I was struck by a car that decided four way
stop intersections were not what they meant. I had come to a
complete stop and allowed ALL of the traffic to pass and started
across. I got 2/3eds of the way across and the woman who had been
behind a pickup I let pass rolled the stop sign and accelerated
directly into me. She was obviously distracted but the old bat might
have been having her first clear shot at a bike for all I know.

In any case perhaps I should start from the beginning - back around
2008 I bought a new Time VX Elite carbon fiber bike. With the normal
120 psi 23 mm tires it was completely un-ridable. It was so stiff it
would hammer your balls through your skull on the first bump. So it
went up on the shelf. I removed the components and used them
elsewhere and that frame just sat there. Anyway I decided to put it
back together and since the latest fad is fat tires I put 28 mm
Michelin Krylon Endurance on them. What an F-ING difference! With
the fat tires it is one of the best rides I've ever had.

My Pinarello Stelvio was the one I was riding when I was hit and
while the frame and fork came though OK every component on the bike
was broken.

I had Campy Scirroco CX wheels on it and I discovered that I HATE
aero wheels with a passion. Since her insurance company was paying
for it I bought a set of Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels that were last
year's and on clearance. When they arrived they were already set up
for Tubeless. Well, I had been wanting to try that as well.


The older steel bikes won't fit fat tires so the largest that would
fit are 25's. I installed the tires on the wheels. I had bought 4
ounce bottle of Orange sealant which was the best in the tests I read.


Now the tires will not go onto the rims because they are a bit
tight. So first I put the filler at the bottom and using a Park
Valve Tool I removed the valve head. Pumped in 2 ounces of Orange
then turned the wheel perhaps 1/8th of a turn so that when you
release the squeeze bottle it doesn't suck the sealant back in. Then
I hit it with a CO2 cartridge. POP!!! it was on and I rotated the
wheel while laying it on one side and then the other since initial
leaks are from the tire and rim not being a perfect fit.


Every morning I had to pump the tires up until I finally took it for
a ride and that fit the tires well onto the rim and the bumps packed
sealant into any voids.


Now the tires with tubes would normally run around 110 lbs and be
not very easy riding. But now I ride between 60 and 80 psi (letting
the pressure go down over a week before refilling).

The ride is exceptional. With the higher pressure they are sort of
bouncy so fast downhills can be scary. With the lower pressure the
rolling resistance doesn't seem to increase detectably. Riding with
guys with the high pressure tube tires I find myself coasting while
they are pedaling.

Not to mention they cannot get a pinch flat and with the sealant
they cannot get flats. So I can leave that damn 2 lb flat kit at
home and just take a multitool and a CO2 cartridge and filler just
in case I get a large enough hole that the tire gets too soft before
sealing. And I doubt I'll ever need that.

So if you've had any questions about how tubeless works I am quite
satisfied with it after a couple of months.

Now I ride sport bikes and I don't know that this would be a good
idea for 32 mm commuter tires. Though probably, because they talk
about using them for CX tires which have a lot of pinch flat
problems. But these normally run higher pressures than you would
with a tube in it. There's always the possibility of it blowing the
tire off of the rim unless you're using Mavic tires and rims
specifically designed to work together tubeless. As far as I know
Mavic are the only people to have "systems" designed.

One, off topic comment. Regardless of what a tire says on the side
there are optimum inflation pressures that are usually lower then the
numbers on the side walls - 110 psi - 120 psi.

Look up one of the numerous weight/pressure tables and try the
recommended pressure. You'd be surprised how comfortable they are.

I'm a little guy, 61 Kg and I usually run ~75 psi for the usual city
streets.

1. The tire manufacturer supplies a list of advised pressures for
rider weight.
2. The advised pressure for my weight on a 25 mm Michelin is 108-110 psi.
3. And with over 80,000 ft of climbing and over 2,500 miles so far
this year despite a couple of prime months lost to weather or medical
problems leaves me at over 82 kgs.

I have a problem understanding what sort of riding you people are
doing. Joerg and I seem to ride in the same manner as does (or did)
Joy. 32 mm tires are for Cross or Gravel bikes. Why would you ride a
high rolling resistance tire on a commuter which operates in the speed
regime where rolling resistance is the prime source of friction?

I'm not certain, but you seem to be implying that 25mm tires must roll
easier than _32mm_ tires. I don't believe that's the case.

https://road.cc/content/feature/1825...ch-wider-tyres


https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/...es-are-slower/


https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_i...ing_resistance

Sorry, I corrected my typo. "you seem to be implying that 25mm tires
must roll easier than _32mm_ tires."

Frank - of course there is a point of diminishing returns. The pressure to support a rider gets lower and lower with increasing tire width so at some point the amount of rubber on the road starts to increase the rolling resistance.

Tubeless Tires
 

On 7/31/2018 11:00 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 5:02:58 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 7:36 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 3:13 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 10:15:02 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 17:39:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

A couple of months ago I was struck by a car that decided four way
stop intersections were not what they meant. I had come to a
complete stop and allowed ALL of the traffic to pass and started
across. I got 2/3eds of the way across and the woman who had been
behind a pickup I let pass rolled the stop sign and accelerated
directly into me. She was obviously distracted but the old bat might
have been having her first clear shot at a bike for all I know.

In any case perhaps I should start from the beginning - back around
2008 I bought a new Time VX Elite carbon fiber bike. With the normal
120 psi 23 mm tires it was completely un-ridable. It was so stiff it
would hammer your balls through your skull on the first bump. So it
went up on the shelf. I removed the components and used them
elsewhere and that frame just sat there. Anyway I decided to put it
back together and since the latest fad is fat tires I put 28 mm
Michelin Krylon Endurance on them. What an F-ING difference! With
the fat tires it is one of the best rides I've ever had.

My Pinarello Stelvio was the one I was riding when I was hit and
while the frame and fork came though OK every component on the bike
was broken.

I had Campy Scirroco CX wheels on it and I discovered that I HATE
aero wheels with a passion. Since her insurance company was paying
for it I bought a set of Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels that were last
year's and on clearance. When they arrived they were already set up
for Tubeless. Well, I had been wanting to try that as well.


The older steel bikes won't fit fat tires so the largest that would
fit are 25's. I installed the tires on the wheels. I had bought 4
ounce bottle of Orange sealant which was the best in the tests I read.


Now the tires will not go onto the rims because they are a bit
tight. So first I put the filler at the bottom and using a Park
Valve Tool I removed the valve head. Pumped in 2 ounces of Orange
then turned the wheel perhaps 1/8th of a turn so that when you
release the squeeze bottle it doesn't suck the sealant back in. Then
I hit it with a CO2 cartridge. POP!!! it was on and I rotated the
wheel while laying it on one side and then the other since initial
leaks are from the tire and rim not being a perfect fit.


Every morning I had to pump the tires up until I finally took it for
a ride and that fit the tires well onto the rim and the bumps packed
sealant into any voids.


Now the tires with tubes would normally run around 110 lbs and be
not very easy riding. But now I ride between 60 and 80 psi (letting
the pressure go down over a week before refilling).

The ride is exceptional. With the higher pressure they are sort of
bouncy so fast downhills can be scary. With the lower pressure the
rolling resistance doesn't seem to increase detectably. Riding with
guys with the high pressure tube tires I find myself coasting while
they are pedaling.

Not to mention they cannot get a pinch flat and with the sealant
they cannot get flats. So I can leave that damn 2 lb flat kit at
home and just take a multitool and a CO2 cartridge and filler just
in case I get a large enough hole that the tire gets too soft before
sealing. And I doubt I'll ever need that.

So if you've had any questions about how tubeless works I am quite
satisfied with it after a couple of months.

Now I ride sport bikes and I don't know that this would be a good
idea for 32 mm commuter tires. Though probably, because they talk
about using them for CX tires which have a lot of pinch flat
problems. But these normally run higher pressures than you would
with a tube in it. There's always the possibility of it blowing the
tire off of the rim unless you're using Mavic tires and rims
specifically designed to work together tubeless. As far as I know
Mavic are the only people to have "systems" designed.

One, off topic comment. Regardless of what a tire says on the side
there are optimum inflation pressures that are usually lower then the
numbers on the side walls - 110 psi - 120 psi.

Look up one of the numerous weight/pressure tables and try the
recommended pressure. You'd be surprised how comfortable they are.

I'm a little guy, 61 Kg and I usually run ~75 psi for the usual city
streets.

1. The tire manufacturer supplies a list of advised pressures for
rider weight.
2. The advised pressure for my weight on a 25 mm Michelin is 108-110 psi.
3. And with over 80,000 ft of climbing and over 2,500 miles so far
this year despite a couple of prime months lost to weather or medical
problems leaves me at over 82 kgs.

I have a problem understanding what sort of riding you people are
doing. Joerg and I seem to ride in the same manner as does (or did)
Joy. 32 mm tires are for Cross or Gravel bikes. Why would you ride a
high rolling resistance tire on a commuter which operates in the speed
regime where rolling resistance is the prime source of friction?

I'm not certain, but you seem to be implying that 25mm tires must roll
easier than _32mm_ tires. I don't believe that's the case.

https://road.cc/content/feature/1825...ch-wider-tyres


https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/...es-are-slower/


https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_i...ing_resistance

Sorry, I corrected my typo. "you seem to be implying that 25mm tires
must roll easier than _32mm_ tires."

Frank - of course there is a point of diminishing returns. The pressure to support a rider gets lower and lower with increasing tire width so at some point the amount of rubber on the road starts to increase the rolling resistance.


Here's another Jan Heine article on the topic:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/...ure-take-home/

--
- Frank Krygowski

Tubeless Tires
 

On 01/08/18 12:32, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2018 11:00 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 5:02:58 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 7:36 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/27/2018 3:13 PM, wrote:


I have a problem understanding what sort of riding you people are
doing. Joerg and I seem to ride in the same manner as does (or did)
Joy. 32 mm tires are for Cross or Gravel bikes. Why would you ride a
high rolling resistance tire on a commuter which operates in the speed
regime where rolling resistance is the prime source of friction?

I'm not certain, but you seem to be implying that 25mm tires must roll
easier than _32mm_ tires. I don't believe that's the case.

https://road.cc/content/feature/1825...ch-wider-tyres



https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/...es-are-slower/



https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_i...ing_resistance

Sorry, I corrected my typo. "you seem to be implying that 25mm tires
must roll easier than _32mm_ tires."

Frank - of course there is a point of diminishing returns. The
pressure to support a rider gets lower and lower with increasing tire
width so at some point the amount of rubber on the road starts to
increase the rolling resistance.


Here's another Jan Heine article on the topic:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/...ure-take-home/


A friend rode a fat bike for some distance (70-80km I think) over the
weekend. He found it a real drag to pedal compared to his dual
suspension MTB.

Fatter tyres must be heavier and contribute more aerodynamic drag.

There must be a point at which the lower rolling resistance of wider
tyres is outweighed by the increased weight and aerodynamic drag.

--
JS

Tubeless Tires
 

wrote:
On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 10:15:02 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 17:39:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

A couple of months ago I was struck by a car that decided four way stop
intersections were not what they meant. I had come to a complete stop
and allowed ALL of the traffic to pass and started across. I got 2/3eds
of the way across and the woman who had been behind a pickup I let pass
rolled the stop sign and accelerated directly into me. She was
obviously distracted but the old bat might have been having her first
clear shot at a bike for all I know.

In any case perhaps I should start from the beginning - back around
2008 I bought a new Time VX Elite carbon fiber bike. With the normal
120 psi 23 mm tires it was completely un-ridable. It was so stiff it
would hammer your balls through your skull on the first bump. So it
went up on the shelf. I removed the components and used them elsewhere
and that frame just sat there. Anyway I decided to put it back together
and since the latest fad is fat tires I put 28 mm Michelin Krylon
Endurance on them. What an F-ING difference! With the fat tires it is
one of the best rides I've ever had.

My Pinarello Stelvio was the one I was riding when I was hit and while
the frame and fork came though OK every component on the bike was broken.

I had Campy Scirroco CX wheels on it and I discovered that I HATE aero
wheels with a passion. Since her insurance company was paying for it I
bought a set of Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels that were last year's and on
clearance. When they arrived they were already set up for Tubeless.
Well, I had been wanting to try that as well.


The older steel bikes won't fit fat tires so the largest that would fit
are 25's. I installed the tires on the wheels. I had bought 4 ounce
bottle of Orange sealant which was the best in the tests I read.


Now the tires will not go onto the rims because they are a bit tight.
So first I put the filler at the bottom and using a Park Valve Tool I
removed the valve head. Pumped in 2 ounces of Orange then turned the
wheel perhaps 1/8th of a turn so that when you release the squeeze
bottle it doesn't suck the sealant back in. Then I hit it with a CO2
cartridge. POP!!! it was on and I rotated the wheel while laying it on
one side and then the other since initial leaks are from the tire and
rim not being a perfect fit.


Every morning I had to pump the tires up until I finally took it for a
ride and that fit the tires well onto the rim and the bumps packed
sealant into any voids.


Now the tires with tubes would normally run around 110 lbs and be not
very easy riding. But now I ride between 60 and 80 psi (letting the
pressure go down over a week before refilling).

The ride is exceptional. With the higher pressure they are sort of
bouncy so fast downhills can be scary. With the lower pressure the
rolling resistance doesn't seem to increase detectably. Riding with
guys with the high pressure tube tires I find myself coasting while they are pedaling.

Not to mention they cannot get a pinch flat and with the sealant they
cannot get flats. So I can leave that damn 2 lb flat kit at home and
just take a multitool and a CO2 cartridge and filler just in case I get
a large enough hole that the tire gets too soft before sealing. And I
doubt I'll ever need that.

So if you've had any questions about how tubeless works I am quite
satisfied with it after a couple of months.

Now I ride sport bikes and I don't know that this would be a good idea
for 32 mm commuter tires. Though probably, because they talk about
using them for CX tires which have a lot of pinch flat problems. But
these normally run higher pressures than you would with a tube in it.
There's always the possibility of it blowing the tire off of the rim
unless you're using Mavic tires and rims specifically designed to work
together tubeless. As far as I know Mavic are the only people to have "systems" designed.

One, off topic comment. Regardless of what a tire says on the side
there are optimum inflation pressures that are usually lower then the
numbers on the side walls - 110 psi - 120 psi.

Look up one of the numerous weight/pressure tables and try the
recommended pressure. You'd be surprised how comfortable they are.

I'm a little guy, 61 Kg and I usually run ~75 psi for the usual city
streets.

1. The tire manufacturer supplies a list of advised pressures for rider weight.
2. The advised pressure for my weight on a 25 mm Michelin is 108-110 psi.
3. And with over 80,000 ft of climbing and over 2,500 miles so far this
year despite a couple of prime months lost to weather or medical problems
leaves me at over 82 kgs.

I have a problem understanding what sort of riding you people are doing.
Joerg and I seem to ride in the same manner as does (or did) Joy. 32 mm
tires are for Cross or Gravel bikes. Why would you ride a high rolling
resistance tire on a commuter which operates in the speed regime where
rolling resistance is the prime source of friction?


My commuter bike runs Marathon Plus Touring. They are heavy slow things,
and have mildly reduced grip. But they can cope with 400+ miles per month
over a sea of broken glass and what not, they also have very good wear
rates, the tyres I had before would of worn though quite a few times over
by now.

Objectively using the nr decade of GPS tracking I have Marathon plus or
similar doesn’t make any difference to ones commuting times, not much to
athletic leisure riding either, where they fall down in, is feel and grip.

Roger Merriman