On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 08:10:39 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/12/2017 1:53 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:55:55 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/11/2017 8:23 PM, John B. wrote:


Hey! After the saga about building small wheels and the spokes that
didn't tighten, you never did divulge your secrets of how to built
small wheels with long spokes :-)

It was a very frustrating process. One of my best friends used to own a
bike shop. (BTW, I have other friends who used to own bike shops.
Apparently it's a tough way to make a living.) Anyway, he has a Hozan
spoke threader. Its dies roll the threads onto spokes.

So I borrowed it. (It's still in my basement.) Using extra spokes I had,
I experimenting with extending spoke threads a few millimeters, which I
figured was all I needed. But I failed again and again, probably many
more than 20 tries. I played endlessly with the depth adjustment of the
threads. I tried cutting spokes short and starting on the unthreaded
portion of the spokes. What I found time after time was a nipple would
thread on only about 6 to 8 mm, then bind. I tried several types of
nipples, and starting from either end of the nipples. No dice.

Looking with super-close-up goggles, then with a small microscope, it
seemed that the thread form was not symmetrical, not truly perpendicular
to the axis of the spoke. The threads sort of leaned one way, so to
speak - but I don't really know if that was the problem. My friend lent
me another head for the tool but it did no better. I did trials cranking
the thread roller by hand, and many more using an electric drill to do
the trials more rapidly. I lubricated using ordinary oil, then cutting
fluid. Nothing worked.

So I gave up on the proper solution, and went with a kludge. I
counterbored the original nipples about 2 mm, and also slid thin washers
onto the nipples for a belt and suspenders approach. The wheel tensioned
up fine, straight and true. Since the spoke ends are essentially even
with the "top" surface of the nipple, the original error was probably no
more than a millimeter, whatever caused it. I still suspect a slightly
undersized rim.

I had never seen a Hozan threader although looking on the net it seems
pretty common device. I did some looking on Amazon came across the
cutting head listed separately.
https://tinyurl.com/y8r7sars

Looking at the enlarged view it doesn't look like a very precise
device. Note the angle of the bottom roller versus the angle (as well
as you can see) of the other two.

I had some spokes cut and re-threaded in Singapore a couple of years
ago and I think that "those guys" used a machine that they got from
one of the spoke companies.


My experience with the Cyclo and Hozan is the same as
Frank's - inadequate[1]. Phil Wood rolling heads are better
made[2] and in a massively overbuilt fixture so thread
quality is excellent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDer5HJpbHA

skip to 0:55

Precision setup plates allow 12, 13, 14 or 15 gauge spokes.

[1] I suspect that this design might be OK for plain carbon
steel spokes but moving stainless takes more push than these
tools offer.

[2] And reversible! After about 30 years, just flip them over.

That was the tool that the "guys in Singapore" used when they made my
spokes. It was 18 and 18 rear wheel spokes and one guy was cranking
the machine and the other guy was telling me about how he had just
"rebuilt" the Huffy Super Sport from some rusty bits to something that
looked like it was sitting on the sales shop floor back in
1960-something. Correct color scheme, decals, everything.

The spoke maker finished long before the Huffy story was finished.
--
Cheers,

John B.