On Jan 8, 2:42*am, Howard Kveck wrote:
In article ,
*Bill C wrote:

Sorry can't support those tactics.

* *Who does, especially in this forum?

The Palestinians have major
legitimate complaints that need to be addressed. The Israeli
government, and Israeli extremists have committed their share of
illegal actions and still are, but IMO the history of the Palestinian/
Pan-Arab groups, and they are inseperable and their current tactics,
along with their committment to the extermination of Israel and it's
people make it impossible to support them until they show anything
resembling the behavior of a civilized people and international law.
Calling for the extermination of a nation and it's people, military of
civilian, around the globe is totally unacceptable in any society that
could be called a civilization. The complete and total lack of respect
for human life, be it Palestinian, Arab, Israeli, or American is
indefensible to me.

* *This is the problem: you see things in black and white. Obviously there are
Palestinians doing some seriously ****ed up stuff in this but you won't really look
at the things that Israel does that exacerbates the situation. I've been trying to
get you to take a broader look at it. Henry's comment on the settlements is correct
and it's good that you agree with that (though it's foolish to think that the US will
ever tell Israel that we'll pull the plug on their money flow if they don't stop with
the settlements - Sharon has said in public that Israel controls Congress), but
there's more than that causing the Palestinians to fight. They've been under Israeli
control for more than 40 years. The people are messed with when trying to go to work
outside Gaza and there are few jobs in Gaza. The blockades have cut food supply to a
trickle. Kids are dealing with the effects of long term malnutrition. Even during the
'08 cease fire, the blockade continued. These things are a fraction of the ****
they've been dealing with for 40 years. Negotiating has rarely panned out the way
it's supposed to for the Palestinians and the Israelis have always gained the upper
hand - Sharon and his people have stated that the 2005 withdrawal was done
specifically to freeze the process and halt any movement on the problem. It was never
intended in good faith.

* *There was supposed to have been some sort of Palestinian state made (Gaza, West
Bank, Palestinian East Jerusalem) and 94% of it is still occupied by Israel - the
remaining 6% is Gaza. That 6% isn't exactly "liberated," is it? And the population of
the settlements has more than doubled in the last couple of years, getting more
militant at the same time - the settlers go out of their way to make life as hard as
they can for Palestinians.

* *As for the guerrilla tactics that Hamas uses, well, what do you expect them to do?
It's been shown that Israel will beat an army sent its way so they have to resort to
tactics that work - that's the same thing outgunned people have done since the dawn
of time. Including what became the US (and don't get all hot and think I'm saying
that Washington had people using civilians as shields - I'm not). Regarding the
situation between Hamas and Fatah - Fatah has done some negotiating with Israel but
much of it has been done in ways that the Gazans see as selling them down the river
for a little time in the West Bank.

* *The point I am and have been trying to make is that, while I find the actions of
both sides abhorrent, I see the reasons that the Palestinians might feel that they
must do what they have been doing. Trying to paint this as entirely due to the
"Nazi-like" proclivities of Hamas is missing the mark by a mile. Again, the number of
Palestinians (and even Hamas members) who subscribe to that ideology is quite minimal
but that's what we hear about. Whatever **** tactics that Hamas has been using simply
does not justify the punishment of the other 1.5 million people. The most obvious
reason for not killing and destroying the lives of a lot of Palestinians is the fact
that it makes more enemies around the world (and the US is included in that too).

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * tanx,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Howard

* * * * * * * * * * * * *Caught playing safe
* * * * * * * * * * * * * It's a bored game

* * * * * * * * * * *remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Thanks for the rational, civil comment. I wrote a response earlier but
it seems to have been eaten. I'll redo it later.
Bill C