But for the larger sizes, there is some hope. Completely out of the blue,
Trek decided to build a 64cm Madone this year. We sell quite a few of
them.
For years, 62cm was the largest, so those over 6'3 were either difficult
or
impossible to fit. We have now successfully fit someone 6'7 to a
high-quality road bike.

High-quality road bike? I thought the Madone was made out of plastic
and formed in a mold. I know it's expensive for what it is, but taken
all together that would make Madones the equivalent of '80s Oakley
sunglasses-- cooked up like polymer waffles and sold at an umpteen
squillion percent markup.

Plastic? That's like someone telling you that your Nishiki & Fuji &
Cannondale are made from refined dirt.

Oh. Darn. They are. You could make an argument that just about everything
is.

Unless... unless it's made of materials produced in a cyclotron!

I have a 68cm Nishiki road frame, a 68cm Fuji road frame, and a 68cm
Cannondale road frame, and in the past I had a 68cm Schwinn road
frame. I find it a bit puzzling that the "technology" of making
frames for all sizes of adults seems to have been lost. I'm
especially puzzled in light of the fact that plastic Treks have always
been lugged, and thus could have been made in just about any size,
like the lugged frames of yore.

I can't speak for the Fuji and Cannondale, whose designs (primarily tube
diameter and, to a lesser degree, wall thickness) may very well have been
scaled up for the greater stresses incurred with such a large frame size.
But your Nishiki, if it's from the old days, probably was not such a design.
Back in the days when steel was king, manufacturers nearly always used
exactly the same diameters, and quite often even the same wall thicknesses,
throughout their size range. Thankfully, in the largest sizes, butted tubing
often wasn't available so at least you had slightly more robust tubes than
would otherwise be the case.

Because the frames were lugged, tubing diameter was restricted to the same
size for all frames, because oversized production-style (cheap) lugs simply
did not exist. And, assuming your Nishiki was built this way, you're
experiencing a design that works much better for smaller sizes than for what
you ride.

The move to welded aluminum removed many of the cost constraints that
prevented using optimal designs for larger frame sizes, although it remained
rare to see a company actually take advantage of this. But for the most
part, even though it was technically easier to build a better, taller frame
out of aluminum, manufacturers abandoned the concept of building taller
frames in general, in an attempt to economize by optimizing their offerings
for the most-popular sizes and getting rid of those that sold in small
quantities.

Getting back to Trek, the "lugs" used are made differently for
different-sized frames. This adds very little cost, since each lugset is
different for each size frame to begin with, requiring its own mold and
layup schedule. It's not something that can be reshaped or cut & welded into
a different configuration like a steel lug might be. So then, you ask, why
hasn't Trek made the larger sizes available all along? Because the cost of
each set of molds for each size of frame is *very* expensive, and fringe
sizes quite likely won't amortize out the cost of the fittings (because the
volume won't be high enough) before the model runs its course.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA



"Chalo" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Chalo wrote:

| One significant implication is that very large and very small frames
| have mostly vanished from the scene.

Very small sizes have been a consumer "problem" for years. Customers
shorter
than, say, 5'2 or so, may very well benefit from having 650c wheels
instead
of 700c. But such bikes sit & rot on the floor, because they don't look
"normal" or because some ill-advised friend says you don't want 650c
wheels
because you won't be able to get tires & tubes easily.

But for the larger sizes, there is some hope. Completely out of the blue,
Trek decided to build a 64cm Madone this year. We sell quite a few of
them.
For years, 62cm was the largest, so those over 6'3 were either difficult
or
impossible to fit. We have now successfully fit someone 6'7 to a
high-quality road bike.

High-quality road bike? I thought the Madone was made out of plastic
and formed in a mold. I know it's expensive for what it is, but taken
all together that would make Madones the equivalent of '80s Oakley
sunglasses-- cooked up like polymer waffles and sold at an umpteen
squillion percent markup.

I have a 68cm Nishiki road frame, a 68cm Fuji road frame, and a 68cm
Cannondale road frame, and in the past I had a 68cm Schwinn road
frame. I find it a bit puzzling that the "technology" of making
frames for all sizes of adults seems to have been lost. I'm
especially puzzled in light of the fact that plastic Treks have always
been lugged, and thus could have been made in just about any size,
like the lugged frames of yore.

Chalo