On 19:39 4 Jun 2020, Kelly said:

Pamela wrote:

On 19:52 2 Jun 2020, Kelly said:
Pamela wrote:
On 11:11 2 Jun 2020, Kelly said: Pamela wrote:

Hi Pam, I think I have found your problem. You are clearly
prejudiced against people with tattoos (as well as cyclists, of
course). And unfortunately for this gentleman who was kicked off his
bike, he was both a cyclist and had tattoos.

We all know that if you don't recognise your problem then you can't
do anything about it, because, obviously, you don't even know it's
there. I have therefore taken the trouble to just explain the
following for you. Either take note of it or, indeed, disregard it,
as you wish.

It seems to me that you see this gentleman cyclist as deviating from
the mainstream in terms of a physical appearance and you have thus
subject him to rejection and prejudice. You will know that stigma is
the relationship between a socially undesirable characteristic and a
stereotype. It appears that your behaviour over this issue is down
to the preconceived notions you hold. And it's worse with you in
this case because the person you have stigmatised is not only a
cyclist but someone who you additionally see as being 'responsible'
for their lot. That, incidentally, is known as 'controllable
stigma', and it includes tattoos because they arise as a matter of
choice.

As an aside, this is going to be the last of our glorious sunny
days, for a while. A perfect opportunity to nip down to the beach,
making time for some fish and chips with a nice strawberry sundae to
finish - don't miss out, will ya!

I provided the research evidence to support my statement but, even
after it was explained to you, you remain in denial. You hold onto
some strange notions and refuse to change despite the evidence.

I am not in denial, I accepted the evidence supplied. And so I
accepted that the tattooed cyclist is more likely than the average
person to have a diagnosis of mental illness (but not to a degree that
is significantly related to his overall health status.). In fairness
I should also acknowledge that you now also go with this version (even
though you have added embellishments which are, strictly speaking,
still within reason).
Anyway, it is a definite improvement on your initial claim that the
tattooed cyclist is clearly short of a shilling.

On a similar note, I can say people who have extensive body piercings
are also more likely than not to have mental health problems. FLIP!!!
(That's you over-reacting just now to a simple truth.)

That does not make me FLIP!!! What could make me over-react
(possibly) would be someone claiming that another person was clearly
short of a shilling based on nothing more than the fact that they had
a few piercings.

The research indicates that the gentleman is more likely than not to
have mental health problems is based his proclivity to have extensive
tattooing.

Hi, Pam, I don't know how you manage it but where has your opening
sentence come from? The research I've seen (the link you initially gave
and a Daily Mail piece) does, in fact, not indicate that the gentleman
in question is more likely than not to have mental health problems. What
it indicated was that the gentleman is more likely than the average
person to have mental health problems.

Yes you are quite correct. "More likely than the average person" is what I
had in mind but expressed it poorly. Thank you for the correction.

You don't need research as common sense would reach the same conclusion
but I suppose the research gives it a scientific basis. I am sorry you
have had trouble with that.

I suppose it could be because the research (including your initial link)
didn't give any real detail and was pretty vague. I have just looked up
what the chances are of the average person having a mental health
problem, and find it's surprisingly high at nearly 25%. So, someone
with a certain amount of tattoos will have a higher probability than
that. Okay, but we don't know what the figure is, although we do know
it can't be too much higher because we were told it wouldn't
significantly affect the overall health of the tattooed person.

We have already discussed that that is a reference to dermatological health.

Thus a
tattooed person's chances of having a mental health problem could be
anywhere from what? 1% or more than the chances of an average person. I
mean, how do you get from that to making your opening sentence
assertion?

You are inventing facts now.

I do notice news reports today that the incidence of drinking during
the lockdown has gone up and wonder if that underlies your recent
uncontrolled emotional states: you use emotional logic in your Vicky
Pollard thinking and separately you display emotional over-reaction to
comments here.

See how quickly you jump to conclusions? And extreme conclusions at
that. Then run with them?

You recently mentioned you wished you had some recreational drugs and
I wonder which are your favourite. Perhaps you will say and it may
explain things.

Yet more extreme conclusions. I once tried to make a small joke of a
previous extreme drug related conclusion of yours, but it obviously
went over your head and now you are running with this new improved and
enhanced version. I can't be bothered to go back and find all the
relevant message id's - but, of course, could do if necessary).

What you wrote is a tell. Perhaps you inhabit the drug taking ethos
that you can't see what it gives away. Let me reframe it and reverse
the situation. If you had asked me if I'm taking drugs (or alcohol to
excess), I would not reply "I should be so lucky" because I don't
consider people who take recreational drugs to be lucky at all. They on
the other hand don't understand that way of thinking at all.

I didn't take the question you asked to be a serious one, and so
answered it in a lighthearted way. There is nothing more to it than
that, really. Anyway, my recent drug test came back negative... between
you and I, my dealer has some explaining to do.

Your liberal attitude to law breaking is noted.

You talk of my uncontrolled emotional states but do you really think
you hold dispassionate views about cyclists and about people with
tattoos and piercings? If I have over-reacted in interacting with you
it is probably because I have taken some of your more provocative
views too seriously. But that is my fault - I know life is 90% how
you respond, but it's not only about having the knowledge, the wisdom
to use it also needs to be gained.

There are dozens of studies which show extensive tattooing is correlated
with mental health problems. Pick and choose from he

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...+mental+health

You must be kidding? There's no way I'm going to work my way through
that lot. I'm with Mr Nugent on this 'appeal to authority' thing.
Anyone can post a URL to a site which may or may not contain relevant
material. You're making this claim, it would be far better that you
precis what you feel is relevant and, where appropriate, provide a link
that backs it all up.

Do you want me to choose a few for you? I provided a list so you could
pursue those you felt were of most interest. The point is this effect is
established and various studies have looked at various aspects. Extensive
tattooing is associated with high risk behaviour. I don't want to conflate a
group of hardcore tattoo wearers like this cyclists with some teenager who
has a tiny little design on her foot.

Which is why I wrote: "More intriguing is the mindset behind the
gentleman's extensive tattoos" yet it seems to upset you greatly

Well, let's see, it was speculative and it should take something more
substantial than a few tattoos to write off someone's credibility
basically covers it. None of us are mind-readers any more than we are
fortune-tellers. Then on top of that, tattoos are quite in fashion at
the moment - deciding upon where one draw the line (so to speak) on what
is acceptable and what is not, is getting ever more subjective and how
this relates to mental illness can't be that straightforward either, I
would have thought. Apart from that, yeah, not upset at all,
everything's great.

You are switching from the correlation with extensive tattoos to referring to
trivial tattoos, as I mentioned above. I've posted about this and reminded
you once of what I wrote. I have to draw the line at reminding you any more
as we are going round in circles.