On Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:10:25 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:03:25 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On 14/08/18 04:15, wrote:
Can you people explain to me why you would buy innertubes, flat repair kits and various methods of inflating flatted tires when you don't have to flat a tire and only need to inflate it if you happen to get a large enough hole in it release sufficient air to soften the tire before it seals again?

1. Lock-in. For the ignorant, and you have to be ignorant not to have
noticed how manufacturers try to lock customers into their product by
making it incompatible with products from other manufacturers. Heck,
they even make their new products incompatible with their own products.

2. Performance. I always laugh at claims of superior performance when
they relie on results from very narrow test conditions.

3. Reliability; tubeless setup fails once. Tube and tyre need to fail
twice to have you walking.

1. Exactly HOW are manufacturers trying to "lock us in" to their product when virtually every new wheels and every new tire tubeless compatible?

2. If you have ever run tests on mechanical components in your life than you know that it is impossible to test for every condition. What we have seen is testing by at least a half dozen source from tire manufacturers to Cycling News testing the rolling resistance of narrow to wide tires and they all report the same outcome - the rougher the roads the less rolling resistance wider tires at lower pressures have compared to narrower higher pressure tires. That is not "very narrow test conditions". The last video showed rolling resistance of the three different TYPES of tires. This was not meant to give precise measurements but relative differences. And as should come as not surprise to anyone capable of engineering, the tire that has the least intercomponent friction the less the relative rolling resistance. Again, these do nothing more than burst myths that have been surrounding bicycle tires for a long time. Anyone that went from the older 18 mm tires at 160 psi to 23 mm tires
at
110 psi could and did report this.

3. Tubeless tires cannot fail from small goathead thorns or wires left on the road by wearing through steel belted tires that give you a tube tire flat. A dramatic cut in the tire will destroy them BOTH equally.

Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles.

What do you do if a tubeless tire goes belly-up on a ride? Nothing is indestructible. I would still carry a tube and a pump and/or a CO2 cartridge even if I was on tubeless.

-- Jay Beattie.

How does a tubeless tire go "belly up" on a ride under different conditions than it would a tube tire? Explain to us all what you do if you get a massive cut or a broken cord on your tube tire? I really have a hard time dealing with people that don't think out what they are responding with.

Jan Heine, of Bicycle Quarterly, wrote an article a year, or so, ago
that describes problems reported with narrow "road tires" blowing off
the rim. The article describes a "test of a Compass Bon Jon Pass 700C
x 35 mm tire on a wheel that we had measured carefully to make sure
its diameter was exactly to spec." The tire was mounted and pumped up
to various pressures and at approximately 108 psi the tire blew off
the rim.

As a result Compass recommends that "Based on this experience, we
recommend: Do not exceed 60 psi (4 bar) when running Compass tires
tubeless. If you need higher pressures, please use tubes. Since the
problems with running tubeless tires at high pressures are not limited
to Compass tires, I'd recommend this for all tubeless tires, and
especially for high-performance tires that are relatively supple.

His closing comment is that "Tubeless technology holds great promise,
but like everything, it should be applied where it makes sense and
where it is safe. In a future post, we'll talk about tips on how to
set up Compass tires tubeless."

See:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/...road-tubeless/