On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 11:19:58 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 7:47:10 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 2:11:05 AM UTC-4, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 3:49:48 AM UTC+2, bob prohaska wrote:
I found this not-entirely-ancient video,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUEaN9FKGLE
which posits that there's no efficiency gain
using clipless (or traditional toe-clips) in
terms of rider performance.

That's a considerable surprise. It certainly
_felt_ more efficient to use clips/straps,
and then Shimano SPDs, compared to flat pedals.

Am I a victim of self-deception? Or worse yet,
marketing?

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

The question is what is the power loss of flat pedals considering that you feet are positioned correctly? Being able to pull up with clipless doesn't per se mean it is more efficient.

And efficiency isn't necessarily the same thing as power or speed,
especially at less than maximum effort. For non-maximum power, lower
efficiency may mean only that you'll want more snacks to replace more
calories.

I think the benefits of foot retention occur when sprinting at max
effort, and perhaps when grinding up a climb at max effort - the only
time I think it makes sense to consciously pull up in back. It's
perhaps helpful on super-bumpy surfaces, to keep feet from slipping
off pedals.

But people used to claim huge power improvement when they moved from
flat pedals to toe clips. People again claimed huge power improvements
when they went from toe clips to clipless. I do think those claims
are mistaken.

- Frank Krygowski

Efficiency is the ratio of what get out and what you put in, simple. What you pull on the during the up stroke you putting something in and here are claims that this is not efficient. Clipless pedals are intended as a safety benefit over toe clips and to get rid of dead toes (me), Toe clips have safety benefits over platform pedals. You can't slip of your pedals. I was a very early adaptor of clipless pedals and never ever looked back. I don't claim any efficiency benefits, but I like that my feet are always in the same position, my feet don't slip of the pedals and of course it got rid of my dead toes. That's it. All those efficiency claims come from people that don't understand efficiency hence my first question: what makes flat pedals less efficient?

Rubber flat pedals are probably less efficient -- particularly the cheap ones with limber axles.

I certainly pulled up or across the pedal when track racing, and if I pulled out, it could be catastrophic -- and thus double straps and later clipless (some racers used clipless and straps). Foot retention is important when sprinting and climbing out of the saddle. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...0.2020.1769201

JRA, its just personal preference, and like Lou, I like having a fixed foot position, particularly since I have mobile ankles, both repaired with Ti plates. Perhaps using flats would be a good training device for a more fluid pedal stroke, but I'm old and don't care about technique anymore except to the extent it keeps me upright.

And shoes can make a big difference. I remember going from Detto, Vittoria or Italia (they all blended together) bicycling/bowling shoes of yore with little steel stiffeners and nail on cleats to Duegis with wood soles and bolt-on plastic cleats. https://www.classicsteelbikes.com/wp...-1-600x400.jpg That was huge -- like going from Michelin 50s to Vittoria CGs (I never rode silks). That was probably the single biggest component improvement I ever had.

-- Jay Beattie.