"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Freewheeling wrote:

"Jon Meinecke" wrote in message
news:1109771963.e8f6cbc4cac64c5dfbb50a14b323ae92@t eranews...

"Freewheeling" wrote:

"Jon Meinecke" wrote

Consider "argue this" in a broader context encompassing the general
content and ongoing nature of this thread (and others before and
likely to come).


You're some piece of work, Tom. You and Markos "Screw 'em"
Zunida (Daily Kos) share a common ethical tradition, apparently.

I have a hunch this is a valuable comment, but I can't quite make out
what
it means.

What?-- your comment calling Tom "some piece of work" or my
observation concerning the broader context about the following
exchange:

"Tom Sherman" wrote
Why do you want to argue this in a recumbent bicycle forum anyhow?

"Freewheeling" responded:
Oh BS. [Tom] actually brought up ecology


Apparently you're both sufficiently interested in trolling with "this"
bait in ARBR to continue posting.

Pretty much constrained to this thread, and to about 3 participants,
until you joined.

And generally genial, thank you. Interesting tango.

We've spent two years with much less artistic, measured,
respectful, and thoughtful exchanges coming to dominate
the newsgroup. The comparison to Markos seems to
cross the line into ad hominem. One presumes you think
your arguments logically stronger than to need to resort
to fallacious rhetoric. It's a slippery slope.


I find this comment somewhat amusing in context. Zuniga is hardly a
pariah with the anti-Bush crowd. He's fairly mainstream, though a good
deal more raw than, say, Josh Marshall. Mainstream Democrats publish ads
on his blog, for instance. Strictly speaking I have no idea whether Tom
follows Zuniga, but I sure wouldn't be shocked to find that he does. You
may be surprised at the contention that Tom feels some of us our duped,
or remain willfully ignorant, of how "bad things really are," but this is
actually doctrinaire Marxism. It's called "alienation leading to false
consciousness." I don't know where he picked it up, and for all I know
he doesn't know it's Marxism, but there it is.

I came up with it based on my own observations, thank you. I have no need
to behave like an academic and throw out all sorts of names.

It is just like all the academics that try to quantify quality of life,
but have no idea how much of a hell hole [1] many of the workplaces in the
US are, how middle class suburban society isolates people from proper
human relationships, and how the lack of a social safety net causes many
to feel that they are in an enforced economic servitude, with their
existence at the whim of the privileged.

So, we should just forget about trying to actually understand any of these
things from an empirical perspective, and just let our prejudices and
impressions rule? Gosh, it'd be great if work were like a party for
everyone, but not only is that rather unrealistic... it's probably the case
that human happiness isn't as simple as the *Theory of Alienation* makes it
out to be.

The bottom line, however, is that freedom from labor is achieved only
through ownership of capital... which replaces labor. And the left always
seems to stand on both sides of that issue, insisting that we somehow make
labor less objectionable while simultaneously creating more of it for the
sake of full employment. If you look at this carefully (as did F.A. Hayek)
it's the road to serfdom, for who would want to perpetuate such a system if
they knew its implications, other than a group who had decided to become the
"new elite?"


Get out of the damn ivory tower and experience the real world!

[1] I have worked in several of these, and have the long-term repetitive
motion injuries to show for it.

Like you're the only one, huh? I've also done farm work, having grown up on
a farm and cattle ranch, and it ain't no picnic either.


--
Tom Sherman - ****ing Contest Hell