On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 1:12:46 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 7:10:54 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 7:13:33 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 8:27:34 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 5:28:47 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/25/2019 7:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 2:21:06 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 5:08:51 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:

You don’t have to be a pro to be competitive. That argument is not only
specious but insulting.

I said "What doesn't make sense is very ordinary riders mimicking every choice
the pro racers make."

That seems insulting to you?

Why?

Because you belittle people for buying light equipment and supposedly "mimicking" pro racers. That is an unmistakable put down. How could that not be insulting?
What is an acceptable Frank bike? A Flying Pigeon?

Well, what I actually said was "mimicking every choice the pro racers
make." That was much more than just buying light equipment.

And of course, I'm not trying to forbid anything. I'm trying to discuss.

I have many riding friends. I've watched them buy custom steel bikes,
super-light aluminum ones, carbon fiber ones, aero ones, recumbents and
more. I've watched them follow every shifter upgrade from 5 cog friction
through 11 cog electronic. (Well, no Rohloffs yet in my crowd.) I've
seen guys go though great lengths to lighten their existing bikes.. A few
now have switched to disc brakes. A couple are experimenting with wider
tires - 32 to 35 mm or so.

I'm sorry, but I just haven't see all that make a difference. The guys
who were faster than me (almost always the ones who put serious time,
effort and pain into training) stayed faster than me. The ones who were
slower stayed slower.

I know there are guys who enjoy hard riding with buddies and sprinting
to the next telephone pole. I've done plenty of that. And if one guy
like that drops a couple thousand bucks on new aero carbon wheels, he'll
win a few more telephone pole trophies. If, that is, there actually were
telephone pole trophies. But should he really feel proud for outspending
his friend? And if the friend retaliates with even pricier equipment,
what's the point?

Nobody I know is retaliating against anyone by buying "pricier" equipment.

I'm not giving anyone a free pass here. There are stupid purchases -- cutting edge junk that falls apart or doesn't work well, things that are too light and break, bizarre designs good for one thing like some of the newer gravel bike designs that really shine in specific conditions and pretty much suck everywhere else. I don't support buying a bike as a display of wealth. Lou's Canyon doesn't fall into any of those categories.

I can understand the appeal of fine equipment, up to a point. One of my
earliest bicycling buddies said "I can't afford the world's best stereo
system or the world's best car. But I can afford the world's best bike."
I could understand his pride even though I don't have whatever gene
makes people covet "the best in the world."

But OTOH, he was talking about an early 1970s Raleigh Professional.
Adjusted for inflation, that would cost less than $2000 today - less
than some sets of aero wheels.

A Raleigh Pro was never the best in the world. BTW, a 1976 Raleigh Pro was $650. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/retrora...76-prices.html Inflation adjusted, that is $2,919.27.

For that money today, you can get this: https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road/ae...road-cf-sl-7-0 Well, O.K., its $2,999. Even Canyon's super-bikes are a great bank for the buck.

BTW, in 1976 I spent close to $1,000 on a custom steel sport touring bike with Phil hubs and BB and some other exotic components like ER Ti spindle pedals (that broke), but not Campy except for some cable clips. It was mostly Dura Ace. My next bike was an all Campy and Phil racing bike. It was gorgeous. I bought it to retaliate against my meager savings account. I spent a huge amount of my college earnings on bike stuff. I bought a used '69 PX10 while in high school. Had I only invested in IBM stock!

-- Jay Beattie.

Jay - I have some of the best stuff available in my mind and I don't believe I've ever gotten even close to $2,000.

Are you saying that you have never spent more than $2K for a new bike with some of the best stuff available? Did you buy used?

-- Jay Beattie.

In general I buy either lightly used or shop demos. The Colnago was bought from a shop two years old and never put together. The new owner partially assembled it and decided it was too large for him and I bought it for a song. The BB had never been installed. The shift components were used and the levers completely rebuilt. The brakes, chain and cassette were new. The stem and bars were new. The wheels were new. The Pinarello Stelvio didn't appear to have been as much used as abused. I did a total rebuild. The Basso is about to get the same rebuild. The Time was bought new. At the time I bought all of the components new since I was working then. Total price at that time (2004?) was under $2,000 though it was not Record.

The Ridley looked new when I got it from Holland. Supposedly it was new but I don't know how that could have been from Holland. All of the components were added new. 105 and other manufacturers at that level.

The Redline is VERY impressive. It looked like a brand-new frame and fork when I bought it. All the components were new and it was set up as a flat bar bike since I wanted disk brakes and drop bar hydraulic levers had just appeared and cost a fortune. To say I was unimpressed with disk brakes is a large understatement. I changed the Ridley over to TRP V-brakes and that is perfect.

My brother had the DuraAce on his Giant fail completely. Now it was being kept in my garage and the dryer blows fine particles into the air that the filter doesn't catch. My Ultegra group was used and looked and worked like new. Within six months it too doesn't work correctly. No lubrication or attempt at cleaning seems to make any difference.

Hmmm. I don't know what problems you're having, but a popular problem for me is the "last chain" syndrome: I change the chains before they elongate, and after the third chain, the cassettes are gone and don't shift well. There is no bad skipping like the old days -- just poor shifting, shifts hanging up and apparent ghost shifting. My son was whining about the shifting on his (formerly my) 10sp CAAD 9, and that was the problem. I threw on a cassette today, and it works flawlessly. That is a great bike -- last of the American produced Cannondales. You can have problems with replaceable internals on the Shimano shifters, too -- the internal plastic cable guides can get worn. If there are problems with non-replaceable parts, then you're stuck, but most issues can be solved with a WD40 flush.

-- Jay Beattie.