wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 9:53:19 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 1:34:51 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 4:56:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 2:59:31 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 4:43:02 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 2:54:54 PM UTC-4, Tom Evans wrote:
On 12/07/2019 18:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:


My concern is that unlike mechanical systems, electronics are a black box. I can
look at a conventional derailleur system and figure out what's wrong with it.
Usually I can fix it with very simple tools, even out on the road.


I normally do all my own bike stuff. However twice this decade I have
had to get shift levers replaced. They seem impossible to me to fix.

So I can't really see that electronic is that big a change from where we
are now.

Sounds like "we" are in different places now. I'm betting that you, like most
"sport" cyclists, are using brifters - STI or similar.

I'm not using brifters for exactly the same reason I'm skeptical of electronics.
Some of my bikes have friction shifters, some have index bar-end levers or
index levers elsewhere on the handlebars. I'm sure I can disassemble any of
those if necessary - but it will probably never be necessary. They are very
simple devices, with little to go wrong.

BTW, my oldest index shifters are on a couple different three speed bikes. I've
had those apart. I don't exactly remember, but I'm guessing there were maybe
three moving parts. Heck, I could fabricate replacements for those!

- Frank Krygowski

Lets see how often did my brifters (ergo and STI) fail on me in the last 25
years...hmm....never. In take my chance for the coming years.

Ah, same as my shifters, then!

No, I take that back. There was a problem with a three speed trigger shifter...

But I have had friends who had STI failures, who called me to come help get them
going. One was on a brand new bike, bought two days before a week long bike tour.
Another was a bike that had been in storage for maybe a year. A third was my
daughter's bike on our longest tour, that consistently missed shifts onto the
largest cog. I was once asked to help with a broken cable, too (inside the mechanism)
but I wasn't able to straighten that out before having to leave for home.

I know they work fine for most people, and I think they've gotten more reliable
over the decades. But your preference is almost always for more technology. Mine
is almost always for more simplicity and repairability. I doubt either of us
will change.

- Frank Krygowski

It is clear that we live in a different cycling universe and I have
little hope that I get you out of the eighties of last the century.
That is OK. What I am trying to say to other people was that
reliability can't be the reason to deny themselves the ease of use of
brifters and even electronic shifting. Fortunately 99.9% of the people
figured that out by themselves.

I _very_ much doubt that 99.9% of bicyclists always use brifters or electronic shifting.

With brifters and/or electronic shifting we are talking about road bikes.
Well in that case on this side of the pond more than 99.9% uses them.



I’d say it’s the same here for road bikesas far as brifters go.
Electronic shifting less so at this point but it’s becoming the norm.

In fact, I doubt that 99.9% of rec.bicycles.tech readers always use
brifters or electronic shifting.

Again I am talking about road bikes but I have to admit that the people
here would make a very odd subset of the road bike users on this side of
the pond. Hell most of the utility bikes users here can shift without
taken their hands from the brake position what is the essence of brifters.


I don’t see anything different from your description of road bikes than
what I see here.

There are many types of bicyclists and many types of bicyclists - AKA many
different cycling universes. That is way better than OK. Don't imagine your
personal riding style and equipment choices are the only legitimate ones, nor
the "best" ones.

Never said there aren't more than one cycling universes and I never said
mine is the only or the best one. I only share my experiences with
new/modern (training)equipment. Unlike you I prepared to 'gamble' once in
a while with the chance to make a mistake and waste some money. My loss
and I blame nobody. By doing that I have experience with all kinds of
frame materials (steel, aluminum, titanium, CF). I have experience with
brifters; Shimano and Campagnolo for many years. I have experience with
an aero bike and wheels. Use training aids like heart rate monitor and
power meters. I have experience with electronic shifting for 5 years now.
Heck I ride a utility bike my whole life. When these subjects come around
I now what I'm talking about and not only from heresay. If Sturmey Archer
3 speed hubs come around I shut up and leave it to the people who still
uses them and I know nothing about touring and touring bikes. For the
record I gave up on ATB's because of the ridiculous technical
developments, GoreTex clothing is bull**** and 1x11/12 drivetrains is
beyond me. Have a nice day.

Lou





--
duane