On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 10:53:31 -0700, sms
wrote:
On 6/23/2019 8:42 AM, jbeattie wrote:
snip
Yes, like this anecdote. And for a lawsuit counter-anecdote, I've been representing Trek and Specialized in Oregon for over 20 years. It's like being the mythical Maytag repairman. There is not an epidemic of old CF frame failures resulting in lawsuits.
Be careful there..."Among dishwasher owners, 13 percent of Maytag
purchases required repairs, more than Bosch (7 percent), Whirlpool (8
percent), Miele (9 percent) and Kenmore (11 percent). Among
refrigerators, Maytag ranked third, behind Kenmore and Samsung while
among washing machines, it was tied for fourth with Whirlpool, behind
LG, Samsung, and Kenmore."
Your comments seem rather, well "strange", as I researched your
figures and I find that based on 34,687 service calls during 2018
YALE Appliances and Lighting stated that in their experience:
Maytag - Shipped 29, service required 3, service ratio 10.3
Bosch - Shipped 2735, service required 303, service ratio 11.08
Whirlpool - Shipped 1030, service required 44, service ratio 4.27
Miele - Shipped 1078, service required 155, service ratio 14.38
https://blog.yaleappliance.com/most-...shwashers-2019
In short your figures seem to have no basis in reality..
(as do many of your other "facts")
The Maytag repairman isn't so lonely anymore.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/09/business/media/maytag-repairmans-new-job-keeps-him-busy.html.
It is true, though, that CF fails differently than steel and some internal damage is not apparent. When my Supersix was trashed in a roof rack incident, I had it inspected by Ruckus. https://ruckuscomp.com/inspection. They confirmed that it was indeed trashed, and in some areas I had not expected. So I got a new bike. I would have spent a similar amount repairing steel and getting a paint job -- particularly if I went with wet paint. Gads, nice paint is incredibly expensive these days. The moral of the story is that if you're worried about internal frame damage, have the frame inspected.
Someone buying a used CF frame is unlikely to be the kind of person that
will spent several hundred dollars on a proper inspection.
You can get failures in any product, and high volume products have ascertainable defect rates, generally very low with reputable manufacturers. The good news is that most bicycle failures result in warranty claims and not personal injuries. The exception is forks. Reputable manufacturers have spent lots of time and money on getting forks right -- and they police their contractors. CF forks are the standard now, even on steel and aluminum bikes. And note that steel forks are not without their problems. https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2013/Sa...-Bicycle-Forks But if CF forks are too scary, get steel. They're still available. I've been riding on CF forks since about '92 when I got first generation Kestrel forks, and I haven't looked back.
Yes, fork failures have been the most common and most likely to cause
injury. For a while Rivendell was offering a replacement program,
offering their steel forks at a discount when exchanged for a CF fork.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100801102119/http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/carbonoms-fork/50-718
"Our offer:
The fork sells for $200, and we won't have them 'till August 1. Call
800-345-3918 or email to pre-order. Or, if you send us your carbon fork
(write your name on the steerer tube, address below, along with your
contact info), we'll sell you its replacement for $115. We will
permanently remove your fork from circulation. That is the point, after
all. If you sell it on eBay, the problem is still out there."
--
cheers,
John B.