On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 3:35:44 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 3:01:51 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 9:37:21 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
In my view, putting immense complexity into a sealed black box
does not make a system "simple."

From a user standpoint, Di2 is very simple -- more simple than cables.
No tension adjustment or lubrication, and no sticking after riding in
muck. You have to charge it now and then -- and you can get fussy with
programming (on bike, no computer necessary for certain settings).
Electronic shifting is not an imperative, and it's expensive, but its a
reasonable choice.

Well, sure, everything is a reasonable choice for someone in some situations.

But "no tension adjustment or lubrication"? I can't remember the last time I
did a so-called tension adjustment on anything but the folding bike; and for
whatever reason, that one seemed to settle down early this year. I think all
my shift cables are lined with plastic, but for whatever reason, I don't ever
seem to have to lubricate them. Well, except for where they pass through that
open plastic channel under the bottom bracket of one bike, and that's only
very rarely. Other lubrication? A Di2 derailleur still has mechanical pivoting
joints, doesn't it?

It's OK if someone wants to buy e-shifting. And given basic early adopter
psychology, plus normal pride of ownership, it's a given that most who spend
many hundreds of dollars for its tiny benefits will say it's worth it.

But it seems obvious that 99.9999% of the world's cyclists - and even cycling
enthusiasts - get along just fine with mechanical systems. This choice proves
that, at best, bike technology is now way, way deep into diminishing returns.

And I really do think there's an important difference between "simple to use
because of incredible complexity built into a tiny box" and just plain "simple."
That difference shows up when something goes wrong.

- Frank Krygowski


Face it Frank. The technology stack associated with every part of modern
life is so deep that nobody can really claim to be a neo-Luddite. So go
ahead and use friction shifters, but be aware that there’s 10 million lines
of code that run when you flush your toilet or flip a light switch. You
can’t escape it.

At least you can't get junk texts on your Di2, and it doesn't talk to you or suggest gears that you might like. It doesn't make decisions for you, except the damned prohibition on cross-chaining, but I think I can program that out -- maybe.

-- Jay Beattie.