On Thu, 10 May 2018 06:28:48 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 7:39:42 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 9 May 2018 21:52:32 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 1:35:50 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-05-09 10:08, jbeattie wrote:

I'm sure Joerg has an anecdote where thousands of unlit persons were
killed by left turning cars. All the dyno using people in NL and
elsewhere are in horrible danger


Danger, sometimes yes. I've had close calls but not terribly close.
However, like many other risks that can be reduced with lights so I use
lights. Never had a close call with the MagicShine clones. They see me
much better.

And I've never had that close call with even a 2.4 Watt halogen light powered
by a standard dynamo. I don't need them to see me better. They see me fine,
according to my decades of riding experience.

Again, riding home after teaching a night class, I had motorists up ahead of
me wait over 20 seconds for me to pass before they either turned left or pulled
out of a side street. I _never_ had any indication a motorist did not see
my headlight.

I realize I live in an area so safe there aren't even any mountain lions. And
I never heard of a death around here caused by a lack of sunglasses. But I
still don't believe Joerg's area is the death pit he pretends.

- Frank Krygowski

I believe from my own experiences that a flashing light does attract
attention better then a steady light, and tests by various highway
agencies seems to show the same thing. I believe I've told the story
about the guy with the bright orange knee socks who passed me on a
straight section of road and nearly a kilometer away you could still
see those orange legs going up and down, up and down :-)

I agree flashing lights are more conspicuous than equivalent steady lights.
I also agree the uniquely human left-right-left-right motion is very
noticeable. To carry this further, so are flipping flags on six-foot-tall
poles, as were once fashionable. (Vermont Bicycle Tours required them on every
bike on their guided tours of country roads.)

Why don't we have lots of flippy flag fanatics posting here? Only Scharf has
done that, and his flag wasn't even vertical.

I just don't think all those devices are necessary. Joerg talks with horror
about his near misses, and about hearing from friends who heard from friends
about other friends who nearly died. I ride prominently in the lane and I
have none of those horror experiences. None.

As a further benefit, I have no door zone worries, I dissuade right hooks,
I have more room to maneuver around potholes, etc.

- Frank Krygowski

I suspect that you, like I, are what might be called a sensible rider.
RE, door zones, just slow down a bit so you have time to dodge the
door if necessary. Re right hooks, just look behind you before you
reach the intersection...

I've never actually seen an auto lurking in terror because I have a
flashing light but I'm not adverse to using one as it might make some
notice me a bit sooner but on the other hand I wouldn't argue that
with out one the rider was in great danger.

I also wear bright colored jerseys as I assume it makes a rider more
visible.

I suspect that wearing a black jersey on a dark night with no lights
is not the best approach... although I've it here, done while riding
the wrong way, too :-)


The waving flag was and I think still is mandatory for motor vehicles
operating on military air fields.



--
Cheers,

John B.