cyclintom wrote:
I dropped all of the "real" climbers on a recent ride while averaging
12 mph or less than 20 kph.

I shudder to think what speed the unreal climbers were doing.

38 kph is an average speed of 23.5 mph which would look good in a lot of crits,

It would have to be a very hilly or very windy tactical criterium for
38Kph to look remotely good.