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Flat repair



 
 
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  #51  
Old August 12th 18, 09:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
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Posts: 1,131
Default Flat repair

On 12/08/18 13:10, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 22:47:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


So I'd prefer a pump over CO2. And I prefer a full sized frame pump over
a mini pump, since the typical mini pump requires hundreds of strokes to
inflate a tire.

But others disagree, of course. YMMV.


I don't believe I've ever pumped a tire with a fill length pump and
always wondered. Can one pump up 100 psi pressures with a full length
pump?


No problem.
Stick to the small bore pumps.
The question is if they could ever reach that on the Mtn bike pumps that
came out. Great for volume, but loausy for pressure.


Ads
  #52  
Old August 12th 18, 03:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Flat repair

On 8/11/2018 11:10 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 22:47:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/11/2018 10:07 PM, Andy wrote:

Most of my flats show up when I am at home where it's easy to fix.

I should care a spare.


Absolutely! A spare tube, plus a patch kit in case of a two-flat
disaster day. And whatever tools are necessary to make the change.

Should I get one of those mini pumps or is one of those CO2 rigs worth it?


I remember one club ride where several CO2 rigs failed or were wasted -
for example, by trying to fill a tube that still had a hole in it. The
victim eventually borrowed my full sized frame pump to get on the road
again.

So I'd prefer a pump over CO2. And I prefer a full sized frame pump over
a mini pump, since the typical mini pump requires hundreds of strokes to
inflate a tire.

But others disagree, of course. YMMV.


I don't believe I've ever pumped a tire with a fill length pump and
always wondered. Can one pump up 100 psi pressures with a full length
pump?

Yes, certainly. At least with a Zefal HP or HPX.

I used to say "Yes, easily." But as I get older, it's not quite as easy.
But I still do it.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #53  
Old August 12th 18, 04:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Flat repair

On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 7:47:38 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2018 10:07 PM, Andy wrote:

Most of my flats show up when I am at home where it's easy to fix.

I should care a spare.


Absolutely! A spare tube, plus a patch kit in case of a two-flat
disaster day. And whatever tools are necessary to make the change.

Should I get one of those mini pumps or is one of those CO2 rigs worth it?


I remember one club ride where several CO2 rigs failed or were wasted -
for example, by trying to fill a tube that still had a hole in it. The
victim eventually borrowed my full sized frame pump to get on the road
again.

So I'd prefer a pump over CO2. And I prefer a full sized frame pump over
a mini pump, since the typical mini pump requires hundreds of strokes to
inflate a tire.

But others disagree, of course. YMMV.


A good C02 inflator with a good tube is very fast and effective. I'm a convert, but I still take a mini-pump as a back-up, and on my commuter I have a Topeak Road Morph which does a better job than my old Zefal and has a built in gauge. Frame shape makes it difficult to use a full sized frame pump on most of my bikes, and I now prefer hoses to pump-end heads.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #54  
Old August 12th 18, 04:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ned Mantei[_2_]
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Posts: 81
Default Flat repair

On 11-08-18 16:48, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I've got a large spray can of brake cleaner, and another of carburetor
cleaner. Since I'll never use them up working on the car, I'd be willing
to try them.


As I mentioned here once some time ago, be very careful if the brake
cleaner uses hexane as the solvent. Hexane binds specifically to a
protein called neurofilament, which is an important component of nerves
(more specifically of the axons which convey the nerve impulses).
Possibly it takes a lot of exposure, such as with mechanics cleaning
disc brakes on trucks, but I would still avoid spraying it.

And one addition to Frank's nice description of fixing flats: When
removing the tire I keep track of what bit was next to the valve hole on
the rim. After removing the tube I inflate it to find the puncture. Then
with valve and valve hole as reference points I know where on the tire
to look for whatever caused the flat. This can be helpful if the cause
was a tiny hard-to-see piece of glass, metal, or whatever. Helpful
although not always necessary: https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn .

Ned
  #55  
Old August 12th 18, 04:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Flat repair

On 8/11/2018 10:10 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 22:47:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/11/2018 10:07 PM, Andy wrote:

Most of my flats show up when I am at home where it's easy to fix.

I should care a spare.


Absolutely! A spare tube, plus a patch kit in case of a two-flat
disaster day. And whatever tools are necessary to make the change.

Should I get one of those mini pumps or is one of those CO2 rigs worth it?


I remember one club ride where several CO2 rigs failed or were wasted -
for example, by trying to fill a tube that still had a hole in it. The
victim eventually borrowed my full sized frame pump to get on the road
again.

So I'd prefer a pump over CO2. And I prefer a full sized frame pump over
a mini pump, since the typical mini pump requires hundreds of strokes to
inflate a tire.

But others disagree, of course. YMMV.


I don't believe I've ever pumped a tire with a fill length pump and
always wondered. Can one pump up 100 psi pressures with a full length
pump?


Sure and with a small diameter[1] design such as the Zéfal
HPX it's not even strenuous. A wide-body Silca Impero takes
a fair amount of muscle but works fine for men with more
arm/shoulder than I.

Crappy pumps bleed almost as fast as one pumps in my
experience; pointless.

[1] 18mm diameter is about 0.4 square inches area.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #56  
Old August 12th 18, 10:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 840
Default Flat repair

On 8/12/2018 8:06 AM, jbeattie wrote:
A good C02 inflator with a good tube is very fast and effective. I'm a convert, but I still take a mini-pump as a back-up, and on my commuter I have a Topeak Road Morph which does a better job than my old Zefal and has a built in gauge. Frame shape makes it difficult to use a full sized frame pump on most of my bikes, and I now prefer hoses to pump-end heads.

-- Jay Beattie.


I also use an inflator for the /first/ flat of a ride, but bring the
mini-pump just in case.

I have to disagree about pump format, though. I know everyone has their
own preferences; for me, my mini-pump is hose-based, and it's OK, but...

Friday I had just put a new "gravel" front tire on our tandem for a
test ride. It was fine in the garage, but 1/2 mile into the ride, the
valve started to part from the tube. The tandem has, ah, STURDY tires,
so I hadn't bothered to pack the inflator, just the trusty Zefal HP
which is semi-permanently mounted on the bottom tube, and which I hadn't
used in years. I was astonished how easy and fast it pumped a 700x32
tire to 85 psi.

Contrast the 2nd flat I had on my single (700x25 tire) a few weeks back.
The Lezyne Road Drive (size large) mini-pump was entirely workable for
95 or 100 psi or more, but thoroughly unpleasant for the last 20 of
those psi. (I really don't flat this much normally).

On a separate note, I was astonished at how much difference the "gravel"
tread on a 700x32 front tire made for handling control in gravel. I
would have thought you'd need 38's or larger (which won't fit on my
tandem). FWIW, this was a Panaracer "Gravel King SK". Disclaimer: I
bought the tire at retail with my own money.

PS - Thanks, Jay, for the straddle cable recommendation.

Mark J.




  #57  
Old August 13th 18, 12:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Flat repair

On Sunday, August 12, 2018 at 2:11:53 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 8/12/2018 8:06 AM, jbeattie wrote:
A good C02 inflator with a good tube is very fast and effective. I'm a convert, but I still take a mini-pump as a back-up, and on my commuter I have a Topeak Road Morph which does a better job than my old Zefal and has a built in gauge. Frame shape makes it difficult to use a full sized frame pump on most of my bikes, and I now prefer hoses to pump-end heads.

-- Jay Beattie.


I also use an inflator for the /first/ flat of a ride, but bring the
mini-pump just in case.

I have to disagree about pump format, though. I know everyone has their
own preferences; for me, my mini-pump is hose-based, and it's OK, but...

Friday I had just put a new "gravel" front tire on our tandem for a
test ride. It was fine in the garage, but 1/2 mile into the ride, the
valve started to part from the tube. The tandem has, ah, STURDY tires,
so I hadn't bothered to pack the inflator, just the trusty Zefal HP
which is semi-permanently mounted on the bottom tube, and which I hadn't
used in years. I was astonished how easy and fast it pumped a 700x32
tire to 85 psi.

Contrast the 2nd flat I had on my single (700x25 tire) a few weeks back.
The Lezyne Road Drive (size large) mini-pump was entirely workable for
95 or 100 psi or more, but thoroughly unpleasant for the last 20 of
those psi. (I really don't flat this much normally).

On a separate note, I was astonished at how much difference the "gravel"
tread on a 700x32 front tire made for handling control in gravel. I
would have thought you'd need 38's or larger (which won't fit on my
tandem). FWIW, this was a Panaracer "Gravel King SK". Disclaimer: I
bought the tire at retail with my own money.

PS - Thanks, Jay, for the straddle cable recommendation.


You're welcome. I was sure one of the historical reenactors had a replacement (Compass, Velo Orange, Rivendell).

I could probably put a Zefal pump on my commuter, but it already has a Road Morph. I don't think a full size pump would fit on any of my CF bikes. I have a boat load of old frame pumps, although the thumb lock on the old Zefal is flaccid.

I got my first CO2 pump from a riding buddy who found a head on the road and gave it to me. I recall the first time I used it -- returning from Larch Mountain, and I was amazed by the speed and convenience. I was throttled and didn't want to play with the clown pump. BTW, I was throttled because it was July 4th 2017, and I wanted to get up and down the mountain before the parade through Corbett started -- which I didn't. I ended up waiving at the crowd and trying to slip by the parade while not getting hit by the guys throwing candy -- and trying not to run over the kids scrambling in the street to get it. https://portlandtribune.com/images/a...3518960500.jpg You gotta be careful shooting that gap. That was the second or third time I got stuck in that parade (going east or west), usually with someone else -- we usually just ham it up at the back, waiving at the crowd. Hey, it's as good as the guy on the motorized tricycle! https://portlandtribune.com/images/a...3518960371.jpg https://tinyurl.com/y9afvtuf

-- Jay Beattie.
  #58  
Old August 13th 18, 01:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Flat repair

On 8/12/2018 6:51 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 12, 2018 at 2:11:53 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 8/12/2018 8:06 AM, jbeattie wrote:
A good C02 inflator with a good tube is very fast and effective. I'm a convert, but I still take a mini-pump as a back-up, and on my commuter I have a Topeak Road Morph which does a better job than my old Zefal and has a built in gauge. Frame shape makes it difficult to use a full sized frame pump on most of my bikes, and I now prefer hoses to pump-end heads.

-- Jay Beattie.


I also use an inflator for the /first/ flat of a ride, but bring the
mini-pump just in case.

I have to disagree about pump format, though. I know everyone has their
own preferences; for me, my mini-pump is hose-based, and it's OK, but...

Friday I had just put a new "gravel" front tire on our tandem for a
test ride. It was fine in the garage, but 1/2 mile into the ride, the
valve started to part from the tube. The tandem has, ah, STURDY tires,
so I hadn't bothered to pack the inflator, just the trusty Zefal HP
which is semi-permanently mounted on the bottom tube, and which I hadn't
used in years. I was astonished how easy and fast it pumped a 700x32
tire to 85 psi.

Contrast the 2nd flat I had on my single (700x25 tire) a few weeks back.
The Lezyne Road Drive (size large) mini-pump was entirely workable for
95 or 100 psi or more, but thoroughly unpleasant for the last 20 of
those psi. (I really don't flat this much normally).

On a separate note, I was astonished at how much difference the "gravel"
tread on a 700x32 front tire made for handling control in gravel. I
would have thought you'd need 38's or larger (which won't fit on my
tandem). FWIW, this was a Panaracer "Gravel King SK". Disclaimer: I
bought the tire at retail with my own money.

PS - Thanks, Jay, for the straddle cable recommendation.


You're welcome. I was sure one of the historical reenactors had a replacement (Compass, Velo Orange, Rivendell).

I could probably put a Zefal pump on my commuter, but it already has a Road Morph. I don't think a full size pump would fit on any of my CF bikes. I have a boat load of old frame pumps, although the thumb lock on the old Zefal is flaccid.

I got my first CO2 pump from a riding buddy who found a head on the road and gave it to me. I recall the first time I used it -- returning from Larch Mountain, and I was amazed by the speed and convenience. I was throttled and didn't want to play with the clown pump. BTW, I was throttled because it was July 4th 2017, and I wanted to get up and down the mountain before the parade through Corbett started -- which I didn't. I ended up waiving at the crowd and trying to slip by the parade while not getting hit by the guys throwing candy -- and trying not to run over the kids scrambling in the street to get it. https://portlandtribune.com/images/a...3518960500.jpg You gotta be careful shooting that gap. That was the second or third time I got stuck in that parade (going east or west), usually with someone else -- we usually just ham it up at the back, waiving at the crowd. Hey, it's as good as the guy on the motorized tricycle! https://portlandtribune.com/images/artimg/0000

3518960371.jpg https://tinyurl.com/y9afvtuf

-- Jay Beattie.


+1

You sure don't want to get between preschoolers and tossed
candy at our parade either:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/parade18.html

I used to think CO2 shooters were dorky until I tried one at
95 degrees with mosquitos 25 years ago. Now I get it. I
still carry a frame pump but /in extremis/ there's a CO2 in
my jersey pocket.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #59  
Old August 13th 18, 02:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Flat repair

On Sunday, August 12, 2018 at 5:11:08 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/12/2018 6:51 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 12, 2018 at 2:11:53 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 8/12/2018 8:06 AM, jbeattie wrote:
A good C02 inflator with a good tube is very fast and effective. I'm a convert, but I still take a mini-pump as a back-up, and on my commuter I have a Topeak Road Morph which does a better job than my old Zefal and has a built in gauge. Frame shape makes it difficult to use a full sized frame pump on most of my bikes, and I now prefer hoses to pump-end heads.

-- Jay Beattie.

I also use an inflator for the /first/ flat of a ride, but bring the
mini-pump just in case.

I have to disagree about pump format, though. I know everyone has their
own preferences; for me, my mini-pump is hose-based, and it's OK, but....

Friday I had just put a new "gravel" front tire on our tandem for a
test ride. It was fine in the garage, but 1/2 mile into the ride, the
valve started to part from the tube. The tandem has, ah, STURDY tires,
so I hadn't bothered to pack the inflator, just the trusty Zefal HP
which is semi-permanently mounted on the bottom tube, and which I hadn't
used in years. I was astonished how easy and fast it pumped a 700x32
tire to 85 psi.

Contrast the 2nd flat I had on my single (700x25 tire) a few weeks back.
The Lezyne Road Drive (size large) mini-pump was entirely workable for
95 or 100 psi or more, but thoroughly unpleasant for the last 20 of
those psi. (I really don't flat this much normally).

On a separate note, I was astonished at how much difference the "gravel"
tread on a 700x32 front tire made for handling control in gravel. I
would have thought you'd need 38's or larger (which won't fit on my
tandem). FWIW, this was a Panaracer "Gravel King SK". Disclaimer: I
bought the tire at retail with my own money.

PS - Thanks, Jay, for the straddle cable recommendation.


You're welcome. I was sure one of the historical reenactors had a replacement (Compass, Velo Orange, Rivendell).

I could probably put a Zefal pump on my commuter, but it already has a Road Morph. I don't think a full size pump would fit on any of my CF bikes.. I have a boat load of old frame pumps, although the thumb lock on the old Zefal is flaccid.

I got my first CO2 pump from a riding buddy who found a head on the road and gave it to me. I recall the first time I used it -- returning from Larch Mountain, and I was amazed by the speed and convenience. I was throttled and didn't want to play with the clown pump. BTW, I was throttled because it was July 4th 2017, and I wanted to get up and down the mountain before the parade through Corbett started -- which I didn't. I ended up waiving at the crowd and trying to slip by the parade while not getting hit by the guys throwing candy -- and trying not to run over the kids scrambling in the street to get it. https://portlandtribune.com/images/a...3518960500.jpg You gotta be careful shooting that gap. That was the second or third time I got stuck in that parade (going east or west), usually with someone else -- we usually just ham it up at the back, waiving at the crowd. Hey, it's as good as the guy on the motorized tricycle! https://portlandtribune.com/images/artimg/0000

3518960371.jpg https://tinyurl.com/y9afvtuf

-- Jay Beattie.


+1

You sure don't want to get between preschoolers and tossed
candy at our parade either:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/parade18.html


Shriners in tiny cars! That is so cool!

The small town parades are the best.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #60  
Old August 13th 18, 03:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Flat repair

On 8/12/2018 11:18 AM, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 11-08-18 16:48, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I've got a large spray can of brake cleaner, and another of carburetor
cleaner. Since I'll never use them up working on the car, I'd be
willing to try them.


As I mentioned here once some time ago, be very careful if the brake
cleaner uses hexane as the solvent. Hexane binds specifically to a
protein called neurofilament, which is an important component of nerves
(more specifically of the axons which convey the nerve impulses).
Possibly it takes a lot of exposure, such as withÂ* mechanics cleaning
disc brakes on trucks, but I would still avoid spraying it.

And one addition to Frank's nice description of fixing flats: When
removing the tire I keep track of what bit was next to the valve hole on
the rim. After removing the tube I inflate it to find the puncture. Then
with valve and valve hole as reference points I know where on the tire
to look for whatever caused the flat. This can be helpful if the cause
was a tiny hard-to-see piece of glass, metal, or whatever. Helpful
although not always necessary: https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn .


Yes, and I do mount my tires so the label is next to the valve stem,
partly to make that check easier.

To get deep into nerd territory: When installing a new tube, I usually
nick the threads of the valve stem on its right side. When fixing a
flat, I use that to make sure I insert the tube in the same orientation.
That's on the theory that if I did miss a micro-shard of glass, the
patch will be in the same place and help to avoid a repeat.

Yes, it's a bit ridiculous, I know...

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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