John Forester Speaks

On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 05:53:22 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 06:48:07 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 10/7/2019 3:59 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Lets be rational and say that in the U.S. there will never be any real
change. Speed limits are not going to be lowered and no significant
bicycle only paths are going to be built. Oh yes, there will be lines
painted on roads and old, unused, railway right of ways renamed
"Bicycle Path" but will over passes or tunnels at intersections to
allow crossing the intersection on city streets without worrying about
stop lights and folks turning be built as they are for cars?

I guess we're spoiled in Silicon Valley, but we have built, and are
building more, infrastructure with tunnels and overpasses. The key is to
eliminate choke points and create connectivity where it has been poor.
One key thing is to not have bicycle routes that are on roads with
freeway entrances and exits.

You are building tunnels and over passes for bicycles?

A few weeks ago we had a City Council meeting where the only agenda item
was whether or not to build a short trail along a creek, opening the
gates, putting down hard-pack or asphalt, and adding some fencing. I had
130 residents sign up to speak on this agenda item and the meeting went
from 6:45 p.m. to 4:35 a.m.. The trail would be what we believe would
be a safer pedestrian and bicycle route to some schools and to our
library. We voted 5-0 to proceed. Those opposed to the trail have houses
that back up to the creek and did not want people walking and cycling
behind their houses. Their concerns about the loss of privacy were
understandable, but it's public land and the water district, who owns
the land, is encouraging more use of their land for trails.

We also are starting a community shuttle system trial later this month.
This is a response to continued cuts in our county's transit system
which has the lowest fare-recovery of any system in the world, and is
operated as a social service rather than as a way to support commuters
going from housing-rich areas to job-rich areas. The shuttle will go
around the city as well as to specific locations in neighboring cities
(medical centers and train stations). The shuttle is subsidized, though
the subsidy per ride is much less than the subsidy that the county
transit agency provides.

We are also putting in protected bike lanes, the first one just opened.
There was basically a realization that the only way to keep vehicles
from driving, parking, stopping, delivering, dropping off/picking up,
etc. in bike lanes was to have a physical barrier, lines and paint just
were not sufficient. Unfortunately, it took the death of high school
student riding to school to spur the city to do something. The latest
thing I saw was real estate agents putting their "Open House" signs in
bike lanes. This was the final straw for me. I had my City Manager
authorize overtime for our Code Enforcement department and on one
Saturday they collected 62 illegally placed "Open House" signs that were
blocking sidewalks, bike lanes, wheelchair ramps, etc..

I remember, years ago in Los Angeles there was an attempt by the city
government to get a bond issue approved to built a public
transportation system and it was voted down two years in a row. "What
for a public transportation system? Just take the car."

Los Angeles is all-in on expanding their transit system.
https://www.fastcompany.com/40490942/los-angeless-120-billion-bet-on-transit-innovation.

Ah yes...Now L.S. is considering a "metro" system. But as I said
"years ago", and it must have been at least 50 years ago the L.A.
voters turned it down flat. Twice :-)

Sorry, I typed "L.S." when I meant "L.A." :-(


Transit is also the only possible solution to the housing issue in
California. You're not going to convince most middle class families to
live in rental housing forever, or to live in a high-rise condo once
they have kids. You have to give them a way to commute sufficiently fast
from areas with enough land for the type of housing they are going to
live in.

Unfortunately, in Silicon Valley, we have no organization that is
lobbying for cyclists. The "Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition" has been
co-opted by development and corporate interests and lobbies for more
money for highway construction, especially the conversion of HOV lanes
to "Express Lanes" where solo drivers can pay to use the HOV lane. A
token amount of money was provided for bicycle infrastructure and
transit in the last tax that was approved by voters.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, 8 October 2019 21:12:24 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 05:53:22 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 06:48:07 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 10/7/2019 3:59 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Lets be rational and say that in the U.S. there will never be any real
change. Speed limits are not going to be lowered and no significant
bicycle only paths are going to be built. Oh yes, there will be lines
painted on roads and old, unused, railway right of ways renamed
"Bicycle Path" but will over passes or tunnels at intersections to
allow crossing the intersection on city streets without worrying about
stop lights and folks turning be built as they are for cars?

I guess we're spoiled in Silicon Valley, but we have built, and are
building more, infrastructure with tunnels and overpasses. The key is to
eliminate choke points and create connectivity where it has been poor.
One key thing is to not have bicycle routes that are on roads with
freeway entrances and exits.

You are building tunnels and over passes for bicycles?

A few weeks ago we had a City Council meeting where the only agenda item
was whether or not to build a short trail along a creek, opening the
gates, putting down hard-pack or asphalt, and adding some fencing. I had
130 residents sign up to speak on this agenda item and the meeting went
from 6:45 p.m. to 4:35 a.m.. The trail would be what we believe would
be a safer pedestrian and bicycle route to some schools and to our
library. We voted 5-0 to proceed. Those opposed to the trail have houses
that back up to the creek and did not want people walking and cycling
behind their houses. Their concerns about the loss of privacy were
understandable, but it's public land and the water district, who owns
the land, is encouraging more use of their land for trails.

We also are starting a community shuttle system trial later this month.
This is a response to continued cuts in our county's transit system
which has the lowest fare-recovery of any system in the world, and is
operated as a social service rather than as a way to support commuters
going from housing-rich areas to job-rich areas. The shuttle will go
around the city as well as to specific locations in neighboring cities
(medical centers and train stations). The shuttle is subsidized, though
the subsidy per ride is much less than the subsidy that the county
transit agency provides.

We are also putting in protected bike lanes, the first one just opened.
There was basically a realization that the only way to keep vehicles
from driving, parking, stopping, delivering, dropping off/picking up,
etc. in bike lanes was to have a physical barrier, lines and paint just
were not sufficient. Unfortunately, it took the death of high school
student riding to school to spur the city to do something. The latest
thing I saw was real estate agents putting their "Open House" signs in
bike lanes. This was the final straw for me. I had my City Manager
authorize overtime for our Code Enforcement department and on one
Saturday they collected 62 illegally placed "Open House" signs that were
blocking sidewalks, bike lanes, wheelchair ramps, etc..

I remember, years ago in Los Angeles there was an attempt by the city
government to get a bond issue approved to built a public
transportation system and it was voted down two years in a row. "What
for a public transportation system? Just take the car."

Los Angeles is all-in on expanding their transit system.
https://www.fastcompany.com/40490942/los-angeless-120-billion-bet-on-transit-innovation.

Ah yes...Now L.S. is considering a "metro" system. But as I said
"years ago", and it must have been at least 50 years ago the L.A.
voters turned it down flat. Twice :-)

Sorry, I typed "L.S." when I meant "L.A." :-(


Transit is also the only possible solution to the housing issue in
California. You're not going to convince most middle class families to
live in rental housing forever, or to live in a high-rise condo once
they have kids. You have to give them a way to commute sufficiently fast
from areas with enough land for the type of housing they are going to
live in.

Unfortunately, in Silicon Valley, we have no organization that is
lobbying for cyclists. The "Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition" has been
co-opted by development and corporate interests and lobbies for more
money for highway construction, especially the conversion of HOV lanes
to "Express Lanes" where solo drivers can pay to use the HOV lane. A
token amount of money was provided for bicycle infrastructure and
transit in the last tax that was approved by voters.
--
cheers,

John B.

I thought L.S. stood for Lost Souls which pretty much describes a lot of L.A.. VBEG LOL

Cheers

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Frank Krygowski wrote:

Creekside trails can be very pleasant, and due to the scarcity of
intersections they can be reasonably safe. (I say that even though over
the decades, our bike club has had far more serious injuries per mile on
MUPs than on roads.)

Creekside trails scare the **** out of me, as here in California there
are people living on them 24/7, and they are a police-free-zone.

As scary as modern-day bike paths are in California, I've heard tales
from my wife of a bike path in Boston in the '90s where kids would hop
out from behind bushes and take riders off their bikes with a baseball bat.

- ---
Lars Lehtonen
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Frank Krygowski wrote:

The route to my brother has roughly ten miles of interstate and 35 miles
of minor highways and country roads. And I have other examples.

Low speeds may be appropriate in dense surroundings, but certainly not
everywhere. To make that practical, you'd have to completely rebuild
America.

I live on a minor highway, and it is terrible. Things are fine during
rush hour when it's locked solid, but otherwise people are aiming for 60
in a 35mph zone. I've had to ferry multiple stray dogs to the pound
after having their spines broken by traffic outside my front door. I've
witnessed multiple roll-over accidents. My building has been hit. My car
has been hit. My wife was hit.

I'll grant one more concession: 20mph inside any city limit, anywhere.

- ---
Lars Lehtonen
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On 10/8/2019 11:51 PM, Lars Lehtonen wrote:

snip

Creekside trails scare the **** out of me, as here in California there
are people living on them 24/7, and they are a police-free-zone.

1. The police do patrol them.
2. Once a trail is open to the public the encampments tend to disappear.

As scary as modern-day bike paths are in California, I've heard tales
from my wife of a bike path in Boston in the '90s where kids would hop
out from behind bushes and take riders off their bikes with a baseball bat.

I've heard about that in L.A. too.

There have been incidents along trails here as well, though none
involving baseball bats. It's more with attacks on pedestrians at night.
These trails are not lighted because of the effect of lights on the
habitat. I would not advise using them on foot alone at night.

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:28:46 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/8/2019 4:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 2:08:12 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:42:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
Yesterday a dumbass pickup truck with snow tires and reverse rims came up behind me in the bike lane pulled around and instead of staying out in a perfectly spacious lane pulled back over into the bike lane. He did this in front of TWO police cars that were facing the opposite direction and had a clear view of what occurred and neither of them did a thing.

This sort of thing would not happen if policemen were on bicycles. Here in Ireland I know some retired policemen who can remember when country policemen (perhaps city policemen too; I didn't ask) patrolled on bicycles. But part of the greater security for cyclists on the roads when I came to live here 40 years ago, after the policemen were long in cars and on foot at least in the village centre, was simply that the roads carried only light internal combustion traffic.

Andre Jute
Belt and braces

As I was getting back from my ride today, a Mustang whatever with an EXTREMELY loud motor came up behind me and passed inches away at 80+ MPH when you could SEE the red light one short block ahead. It is almost entirely young Hispanics that do this. Young blacks are more possessive of their cars and don't want to do things which might lose them. Young whites don't seem to have those sorts of cars.


You saw what you saw, but those sorts of trends are widely
variable by neighborhood and by time of day.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I can only report om what I see. And what I see is Asian women not knowing how to drive and young Hispanic men driving EXTREMELY dangerously.

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 4:09:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 14:02:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 2:08:12 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:42:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
Yesterday a dumbass pickup truck with snow tires and reverse rims came up behind me in the bike lane pulled around and instead of staying out in a perfectly spacious lane pulled back over into the bike lane. He did this in front of TWO police cars that were facing the opposite direction and had a clear view of what occurred and neither of them did a thing.

This sort of thing would not happen if policemen were on bicycles. Here in Ireland I know some retired policemen who can remember when country policemen (perhaps city policemen too; I didn't ask) patrolled on bicycles. But part of the greater security for cyclists on the roads when I came to live here 40 years ago, after the policemen were long in cars and on foot at least in the village centre, was simply that the roads carried only light internal combustion traffic.

Andre Jute
Belt and braces

As I was getting back from my ride today, a Mustang whatever with an EXTREMELY loud motor came up behind me and passed inches away at 80+ MPH when you could SEE the red light one short block ahead. It is almost entirely young Hispanics that do this. Young blacks are more possessive of their cars and don't want to do things which might lose them. Young whites don't seem to have those sorts of cars.

Right Tom, if you could only get rid of them Spics California would be
a nice place.

--
cheers,

John B.

So you're living in another country and think that you can discuss this one huh?

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 12:08:12 AM UTC-7, Lars Lehtonen wrote:
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Frank Krygowski wrote:

The route to my brother has roughly ten miles of interstate and 35 miles
of minor highways and country roads. And I have other examples.

Low speeds may be appropriate in dense surroundings, but certainly not
everywhere. To make that practical, you'd have to completely rebuild
America.

I live on a minor highway, and it is terrible. Things are fine during
rush hour when it's locked solid, but otherwise people are aiming for 60
in a 35mph zone. I've had to ferry multiple stray dogs to the pound
after having their spines broken by traffic outside my front door. I've
witnessed multiple roll-over accidents. My building has been hit. My car
has been hit. My wife was hit.

I went to a public planning meeting and the farmers along a commute route said pretty much the same thing. That they simply cannot get out of their own driveways. All it would take is to close down the curb lane to auto traffic and since that four lane section is only one mile long, keep the speed limit at 35 and ENFORCE IT. But this is California and no one and nothing counts but cars moving as fast as they can.

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 12:08:13 AM UTC-7, Lars Lehtonen wrote:
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Frank Krygowski wrote:

Creekside trails can be very pleasant, and due to the scarcity of
intersections they can be reasonably safe. (I say that even though over
the decades, our bike club has had far more serious injuries per mile on
MUPs than on roads.)

Creekside trails scare the **** out of me, as here in California there
are people living on them 24/7, and they are a police-free-zone.

As scary as modern-day bike paths are in California, I've heard tales
from my wife of a bike path in Boston in the '90s where kids would hop
out from behind bushes and take riders off their bikes with a baseball bat.

On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 16:57:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 3:37:55 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 09:25:29 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 4:09:07 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 14:02:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 2:08:12 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, October 6, 2019 at 6:42:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
Yesterday a dumbass pickup truck with snow tires and reverse rims came up behind me in the bike lane pulled around and instead of staying out in a perfectly spacious lane pulled back over into the bike lane. He did this in front of TWO police cars that were facing the opposite direction and had a clear view of what occurred and neither of them did a thing.

This sort of thing would not happen if policemen were on bicycles. Here in Ireland I know some retired policemen who can remember when country policemen (perhaps city policemen too; I didn't ask) patrolled on bicycles. But part of the greater security for cyclists on the roads when I came to live here 40 years ago, after the policemen were long in cars and on foot at least in the village centre, was simply that the roads carried only light internal combustion traffic.

Andre Jute
Belt and braces

As I was getting back from my ride today, a Mustang whatever with an EXTREMELY loud motor came up behind me and passed inches away at 80+ MPH when you could SEE the red light one short block ahead. It is almost entirely young Hispanics that do this. Young blacks are more possessive of their cars and don't want to do things which might lose them. Young whites don't seem to have those sorts of cars.

Right Tom, if you could only get rid of them Spics California would be
a nice place.

--
cheers,

John B.

So you're living in another country and think that you can discuss this one huh?

Of course I can. I am discussing your often stated racism. You
continually make disparaging statements against those of Hispanic
origins.

Does the word "bigot" come to mind.
--
cheers,

John B.

It is always interesting to know that people like you have been gone so long from the US that you're losing the use of English.

For instance - observing the race of a group of people that do things isn't racism. or perhaps if I say that the majority of people at the local Mexican Restaurant are Hispanic that is your definition of racism.

But Tom, you have never talked about Mexican Restaurants, instead you
gleefully recount the crimes that they committed and even how they
drive.

Neither can you successfully complete a sentence with "bigotry" in it since Frank and you are the major purveyors of bigotry and perhaps you should get yourself a good dictionary since you apparently don't know how to use the Internet to seek definitions. If I insist that the sky is blue on a clear day that is a FACT and not me believing my opinion is correct regardless.

No one completed a sentence with "bigotry" in it. I simply asked if
"bigot" came to mind.

Your original claim of B50s being used as bombers in Vietnam was a good view of your mental conditioning since they were only used for a couple of months and as air tankers only. And though I have no direct knowledge, I can guarantee you that they NEVER refueled B52's since a KC135 was too slow and we would almost stall when being refueled.

Tom, I keep telling you that I was a crew chief on a RB-50 in JAPAN.
JAPAN! Some 2,000 miles from Vietnam. And when I was in Japan there
wasn't any "Vietnam", it was French Indochina.

As for KC-135's being too slow ?? What do you think refueled B-52's?
SR-71's?

Tom, your grasp on reality seems to grow even more tenuous as time
goes by.
--
cheers,

John B.