published helmet research - not troll

TritonRider wrote:
From: Steven Bornfeld


Like I said, one's feelings about these matters probably depend on your
political inclinations.

Steve




What do the statistics that split firearms injuries caused in criminal
applications of the tool from accidental injury have to do with politics?

Nothing at all. What's political is what you view as appropriate
regulation in view of the statistics.

Steve


Either it was a danger inherent in the sport, or it was a choice to injure by
another participant. This in my mind is analogous to crashing people
intentionally.
In that case are you going to convict the manufacturer of the bicycle?
Bill C
Bill C

In article TQJAc.135474$Ly.96010@attbi_s01, "Shayne Wissler"
wrote:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message
...

Now what evidence do you have about helmets protecting against dented
skulls or brain injuries?

I have an idea for an experiment. Go outside and have someone hold a brick
about 2 feet over your bare head and have him drop it. Observe the pain and
damage (assuming you're still conscious). Then try the same experiment on
your friend, but have him wear a cycling helmet. I


Dayum, Shane! No one ever came up with this before!


If you are unable to apply the knowledge gained from this experiment to
real-life, I would submit that it's not more experiments that you're
actually in need of.


Dayum, Shane! No one ever thought of this clever insult before!


Shayne Wissler


I can't believe you left out the part about "If you don't wear a helmet,
you have no brains to protect." How could you resist putting the cherry on
top of your sarcasm sundae?

--
Stella Hackell

She who succeeds in gaining the mastery of the bicycle will gain the
mastery of life.
--Frances E. Willard, _How I Learned to Ride the Bicycle_

"VC" wrote in message
om...
"Shayne Wissler" wrote in message
news:TQJAc.135474$Ly.96010@attbi_s01...

snip of implication that helmets may increase risk of rotational brain
injury

Not everything is what it seems to be. A helmet may indeed not be so
good for your health.

Nice imagination, but do you have any actual reason to believe that helmets
increase the rotational forces involved?

Casual observation would imply the opposite. Helmets are more slippery than
skin, and they have a larger radius than the skull. Also, the helmet is not
as tightly coupled to the head as the skin is, and if the helmet got a large
impulse of rotational force from a localized postion on the helmet, it would
tend to be ripped apart, damping the force.

All of thse would tend to reduce the rotational forces involved. What reason
do you have to think that the opposite would happen?


Shayne Wissler

"Stella Hackell" wrote in message
...

Dayum, Shane! No one ever came up with this before!

snip

Dayum, Shane! No one ever thought of this clever insult before!

snip

Gee, I guess when someone had thought of something before, then it must not
be worth saying, eh?

How could you resist putting the cherry on
top of your sarcasm sundae?

Evidently, your hill-billy expressions above match your metaphorical wit.


Shayne Wissler

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:51:00 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
wrote:


Hey, JT--you're CRC, aren't you? I raced for one season, got seriously
injured (Kissena). I don't know what you consider as a serious injury,
but I know few folks who've raced for several seasons who have not
broken bones. I'm sure there are some.

Racing is not the same as riding on the roads for training or
commuting or pleasure. Racing seems more dangerous. I wasn't aware
you were talking about racing specifically. Were you?

I'm not talking about my 7-year
old daughter scraping her knee? Do you have kids? What would you
recommend for your kids?

I have no kids. If I did, I can't imagine that I'd hold them to a
higher standard than myself. I'd hope they'd learn the most important
thing they can do to protect themselve is to ride safely and be aware
of the dangers cars present.

JT

Shayne Wissler wrote:
"VC" wrote in message
om...

"Shayne Wissler" wrote in message

news:TQJAc.135474$Ly.96010@attbi_s01...

snip of implication that helmets may increase risk of rotational brain
injury

Not everything is what it seems to be. A helmet may indeed not be so
good for your health.


Nice imagination, but do you have any actual reason to believe that helmets
increase the rotational forces involved?

Casual observation would imply the opposite. Helmets are more slippery than
skin, and they have a larger radius than the skull. Also, the helmet is not
as tightly coupled to the head as the skin is, and if the helmet got a large
impulse of rotational force from a localized postion on the helmet, it would
tend to be ripped apart, damping the force.

All of thse would tend to reduce the rotational forces involved. What reason
do you have to think that the opposite would happen?


Shayne Wissler

This is probably harder to demonstrate. That's why the standard is
designed for a direct blow. The problem (inexact as my understanding
may be) is that there need not be rotation of the skull to induce
rotational forces on the brain. A tangential blow might very well do
the same. IMO this is not a reason to discount the efficacy of helmets,
but it does point out the difficulty of predicting real-life
implications for a given traumatic event.

Steve

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:51:00 -0400, Steven Bornfeld
wrote:



Hey, JT--you're CRC, aren't you? I raced for one season, got seriously
injured (Kissena). I don't know what you consider as a serious injury,
but I know few folks who've raced for several seasons who have not
broken bones. I'm sure there are some.


Racing is not the same as riding on the roads for training or
commuting or pleasure. Racing seems more dangerous. I wasn't aware
you were talking about racing specifically. Were you?

Yes I was talking about racing, though I don't think the issues could
necessarily be isolated. Of course the vehicular comparisons look
different in the racing context. I had forgotten that this was a
cross-posted thread, and was viewing it in RBR.



I'm not talking about my 7-year
old daughter scraping her knee? Do you have kids? What would you
recommend for your kids?


I have no kids. If I did, I can't imagine that I'd hold them to a
higher standard than myself. I'd hope they'd learn the most important
thing they can do to protect themselve is to ride safely and be aware
of the dangers cars present.

JT

I can't disagree with that!

Steve

From: "Shayne Wissler"

Evidently, your hill-billy expressions above match your metaphorical wit.


Shayne Wissler


Dumbass
I really don't need to reply, but Stella has more common sense and
understanding of how things work than you and your friends will ever have.
It's not hard to notice that you didn't challenge her on the core of the
discussion, you made a personal attack which is typical of your limp dick, low
integrity, intellectually dishonest philosophy.
Bill C

Steven Bornfeld wrote:
S o r n i wrote:
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS wrote:

JT, I'm really flattered that you consider me a master of

anything--that's high praise indeed!


Hard to consider your positions when you can't even fix your user
name.

Bill "multiple personalities? OK then" S.

Name's Steve Bornfeld. I sometimes post from my home computer, and
sometimes at the office.

Still takes about 13 seconds to change your Usenet account info.

Bill "nothing to do with what computer you're on" S.

From: "S o r n i"

Still takes about 13 seconds to change your Usenet account info.

Bill "nothing to do with what computer you're on" S.

Get over it. Steve has made no effort to hide who he is, or his opinions. If
you can't accept his explanation TFB.
There are a lot of pinheads here who hide behind false ID's when posting
opinions and **** that they wouldn't have the guts to say if it was clear they
were doing it.
Steve has never been one of them.
Bill Crowther