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Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance



 
 
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  #51  
Old April 10th 15, 07:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 5:47:53 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-10 6:19 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 2:14:54 AM UTC+1, James wrote:
On 10/04/15 07:53, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-09 10:17 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On 2015-04-09 17:03:26 +0000, Joerg said:

On 2015-04-08 3:46 PM, wrote:
J if real I dunno how you handle it. Just too much
dirt/mile

Rolloff MTB ? never thought of that...


Rohloff hubs are very popular with MTB riders in Europe. A
friend visiting Germany rented a MTB there and to his
surprise it came with a Rohloff hub. Considered almost normal
there. In the US, not so, never seen one on the trails and I
see a lot of bikes there.

[...]

The idea is that it is not normal/stupid to ride with an open
gearbox in bad conditions. According to that idea a gearhub is
the way to go. If you want a wide range (MTB) and a good
efficiency (sportive riding) you end up with a Rohloff hub
naturally. Your gearbox of your car is also closed and filled
with oil. No?


The gearbox in my car does not cost as much as a whole rest of
the vehicle itself. Not even close. The Rohloff does. That is a
major difference.


Though it is not difficult to spend $10,000 on a bicycle these
days, and then the gear box hub is only 1/5 of the total cost.

You can of course buy cheaper gear box hubs, and they may do fine
for most people. A quick search shows you can buy a Shimano Alfine
8 speed Di2 hub in the US for under $300, and from the same shop
you can buy a SA 3 speed gear box hub for about $100 - which would
be fine for many people who only ride on the road.


According to Andre they don't last. I am pretty brutal on bikes, lots of
offroad hill sections that have to be hammered up.


-- JS


Surprising number of Thorn touring bikes with Rohloff boxes in
Australia; very active high-mile owners. I have no idea what they
cost landed at your door Down Under but in England you can get a high
spec one for under three grand sterling, which would be about 2400STG
for export after you remove the VAT.


That looks like a good deal. Not so much for this area though because
here you need a sturdy mountain bike, else it'll break.


People in the States and Canada have Thorns. It's a bit expensive in carriage, but I haven't heard any complaints. Sheldon Brown, the world's most famous bike mechanic (obituary in The Times of London for a bike mechanic in a small town outside Boston is going some, I tell you!) had one. Those are sturdy, hefty bikes. But for a German it may be as suitable to import a German bike. The after-Christmas sales usually include decent Rohloff bikes at under two thousand Euro, though you have to know what you're doing to sort the chaff from the gold.

A Rohloff is a good option for the cheap rich. You spend the money
once, and then you can ride 5000km for about 15 Euro, which is what
the oil change kit costs (if you're a high-miler you buy the oil in a
huge can and it costs much less per service). The only other service
cost specifically related to the Rolloff is a shot of any grease you
keep for the rest of your bike into the EXT box. That's it, every
5000km/3000m or once a year, forever. And then you leave your Rohloff
to your grandchildren.


Does Rohloff offer a chain protector for a full suspension mountain
bike? That would be the whole point of having a Rohloff in the first
place, the avoidance of the frequent chain cleanings.


Rohloff doesn't, but another German firm, Hebie, offers the Chainglider. See the first post in this thread, which is actually about the Chainglider, and has just been deraiiled to Rohloff by that ignorant clown Daniels.

Andre Jute
The German heirloom


Are you from Germany?


"Heirloom" refers to my joke further up about leaving the Rohloff to your grandchildren. I live in Ireland. But I used to have an office in Cologne, and I liked going to the little opera houses, so wherever I worked, often my offices in London or Paris or Rome, sometimes the other side of the world because I was the company troubleshooter and went where the chairman sent me, every Friday morning I'd discover I was urgently required in Cologne and call them to fuel the Laverda I kept there. The company accountants curled up with acid stomachs at the prospect of the shareholders ever discovering how much jet fuel I burned on their dollar to go to the opera. I used to drive Porsche until I got middle-aged and switched to Maserati and then Bentley. I buy my bikes in Germany. My current daily bike is a Utopia Kranich. -- see
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html

Andre Jute
Ads
  #52  
Old April 10th 15, 08:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Lou Holtman[_7_]
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Posts: 628
Default Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 3:05:32 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-09 10:17 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On 2015-04-09 17:03:26 +0000, Joerg said:

On 2015-04-08 3:46 PM, wrote:
J if real I dunno how you handle it. Just too much dirt/mile

Rolloff MTB ? never thought of that...


Rohloff hubs are very popular with MTB riders in Europe. A friend
visiting Germany rented a MTB there and to his surprise it came with a
Rohloff hub. Considered almost normal there. In the US, not so, never
seen one on the trails and I see a lot of bikes there.

[...]

The idea is that it is not normal/stupid to ride with an open gearbox in
bad conditions. According to that idea a gearhub is the way to go. If
you want a wide range (MTB) and a good efficiency (sportive riding) you
end up with a Rohloff hub naturally.
Your gearbox of your car is also closed and filled with oil. No?


The gearbox in my car does not cost as much as a whole rest of the
vehicle itself. Not even close. The Rohloff does. That is a major difference.



You telling us that you break everything or everything is knocked off
riding your epic trails. I was wondering you didn't mention knocking of
your rear derailleur every ride or two yet. That would also be a reason to
go for a gear hub. Are Americans so poor that they can't save up for a
Rohloff hub if that would be the solution for their kind of riding and we
Europians can? Are we making more money, are we smarter or putting our
priorities different? Just asking.


How many Europeans are using Rohloff hubs? A lot of people don't like
the drag, weight, expense, complexity. There is little if any long-term
pay-off for the type of riding they do. I know a lot of people who race
mountain bikes -- pros, top national riders, strong local riders, and
none of them use Rohloff hubs. None of my CX friends own them. I would
think that if they were clearly superior for the type of riding done by
this cohort (and the length of time they keep their bikes), I would see
at least one. Rohloff makes a great hub with lots of benefits for a
certain crowd, but it is not the crowd I ride with.

-- Jay Beattie.


There is no drag. There is no complexity. The weight is insignificant. Do
you think riding in muddy conditions with an open gearbox is wise? Please
let the pro riders and top national riders out of the equation. In really
tough and muddy conditions I see a lot of trouble with a derailleur system,
skipping chains, chain suck are the main issues. Why do you think the pro
CX riders change their bike for a clean one every 1 or 2 laps?
--
Lou
  #53  
Old April 10th 15, 10:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 12:05:18 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 3:05:32 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-09 10:17 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On 2015-04-09 17:03:26 +0000, Joerg said:

On 2015-04-08 3:46 PM, wrote:
J if real I dunno how you handle it. Just too much dirt/mile

Rolloff MTB ? never thought of that...


Rohloff hubs are very popular with MTB riders in Europe. A friend
visiting Germany rented a MTB there and to his surprise it came with a
Rohloff hub. Considered almost normal there. In the US, not so, never
seen one on the trails and I see a lot of bikes there.

[...]

The idea is that it is not normal/stupid to ride with an open gearbox in
bad conditions. According to that idea a gearhub is the way to go. If
you want a wide range (MTB) and a good efficiency (sportive riding) you
end up with a Rohloff hub naturally.
Your gearbox of your car is also closed and filled with oil. No?


The gearbox in my car does not cost as much as a whole rest of the
vehicle itself. Not even close. The Rohloff does. That is a major difference.


You telling us that you break everything or everything is knocked off
riding your epic trails. I was wondering you didn't mention knocking of
your rear derailleur every ride or two yet. That would also be a reason to
go for a gear hub. Are Americans so poor that they can't save up for a
Rohloff hub if that would be the solution for their kind of riding and we
Europians can? Are we making more money, are we smarter or putting our
priorities different? Just asking.


How many Europeans are using Rohloff hubs? A lot of people don't like
the drag, weight, expense, complexity. There is little if any long-term
pay-off for the type of riding they do. I know a lot of people who race
mountain bikes -- pros, top national riders, strong local riders, and
none of them use Rohloff hubs. None of my CX friends own them. I would
think that if they were clearly superior for the type of riding done by
this cohort (and the length of time they keep their bikes), I would see
at least one. Rohloff makes a great hub with lots of benefits for a
certain crowd, but it is not the crowd I ride with.

-- Jay Beattie.


There is no drag. There is no complexity. The weight is insignificant. Do
you think riding in muddy conditions with an open gearbox is wise? Please
let the pro riders and top national riders out of the equation. In really
tough and muddy conditions I see a lot of trouble with a derailleur system,
skipping chains, chain suck are the main issues. Why do you think the pro
CX riders change their bike for a clean one every 1 or 2 laps?
--
Lou


See
http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp52-2001.pdf I'm also repeating reports by some people that certain ratios are especially draggy. And the Rohloff is a complex system. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/i...peedbild2.jpeg If the transmission goes bad, you have to ship it off for service or buy a replacement, AFAIK. http://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/_mig...014_06_web.pdf

Assuming the bike is built for SS and doesn't need a chain tensioner, then I would definitely agree that IGHs avoid known problems with normal derailleur systems. There are some real benefits to IGHs, and I'm not denying that. But suggesting that Americans are crazy for not spending $1,200 USD for a Rohloff IGH is over the top, particularly since they are probably most beneficial in situations that people never see (e.g. deep mud). I've ridden my CX bike in deep mud, and shifting is not great, but it still works well enough -- and then I hose it off. I've never been so disappointed with shifting performance that I felt the need for an IGH.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #54  
Old April 11th 15, 07:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
T0m $herman
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Posts: 612
Default Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

On 4/9/2015 5:05 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
...Are Americans so poor that they can't save up for a
Rohloff hub if that would be the solution for their kind of riding and we
Europians can? Are we making more money...


To the last question, yes since the "Reagan Revolution" (really a G.H.W.
Bush thing, but I disgress...).

--
T0m $herm@n
  #55  
Old April 11th 15, 08:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
T0m $herman
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Posts: 612
Default Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

On 4/10/2015 11:47 AM, Joerg wrote:
Are you from Germany?


Remittance man from SA is the word on the street.

--
T0m $herm@n
  #56  
Old April 11th 15, 08:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
T0m $herman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 612
Default Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

On 4/8/2015 5:36 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 9:28:13 PM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 1:52:20 AM UTC+1, wrote:
Jute

you are an ugly pig and a barbarian vanity press author


According to Gene Daniels, the group quarterwit, Secker & Warburg, Harper, Bantam, W W Norton, St Martin's, Warner Books, Sphere, Rotovision of Switzerland, Batsford, David & Charles, etc, etc, most of the world's top publishers, who all published my books, are all "vanity publishers". And my Swedish, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, many Spanish, Japanese, Greek, etc, etc, publishers in translation, all "vanity presses", huh?

Yeah? You're wanking, Daniels.

Add another subject of which the poor ****wit Daniels know absolutely nothing. That completes an entire Dewey classification of which Gene Daniels is ignorant. Mind you, to be fair, this clown Daniels probably thinks Dewey was a "vanity publisher".

the info sez FIBER COGS...the rebuild video sez FIBER COGS.

MAN TAKES HIS APRAT AND SEZ FIBER COGS


Well, show it to us, sonny; we promise not to laugh at the gullible hick from the sticks.

Andre Jute
How difficult could it be to stick to what you know? The rest of us manage just fine.


you pay they print

Such as Subaru?

RIP, Roi Tov.

--
T0m $herm@n
  #57  
Old April 11th 15, 08:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
T0m $herman
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Posts: 612
Default Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

On 4/7/2015 6:54 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
BTW, Oil of Rohloff is wonderful stuff. It is light and clean and very economical as you just lay a light bead on top of the chain, so that a little bottle goes a long way. I bought six of the little bottles with my bike, and in 4506km used less than half of one bottle. The stuff's also cheap, about five Euro a bottle. It spreads and clings tenaciously, though, so you want to be careful where else it gets on your bike because it just doesn't want to be wiped off. It doesn't stain clothes, which is good.


How does it taste on a salad?

--
T0m $herm@n
  #58  
Old April 11th 15, 08:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
T0m $herman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 612
Default Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

On 4/9/2015 11:23 AM, Duane wrote:
Some of the college students around here beat their bikes up so that no
one will steal them. It's usually funny because they're mostly low end
bikes to begin with. Someone even tried marketing spray on rust.


A significant number of college students like to destroy parked bicycles
belonging to other people, after they (the students, not the bikes) have
consumed copious quantities of ethanol.

--
T0m $herm@n
  #59  
Old April 11th 15, 09:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Lou Holtman[_7_]
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Posts: 628
Default Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

jbeattie schreef op 10-4-2015 om 23:31:
On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 12:05:18 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 3:05:32 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-09 10:17 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On 2015-04-09 17:03:26 +0000, Joerg said:

On 2015-04-08 3:46 PM, wrote:
J if real I dunno how you handle it. Just too much dirt/mile

Rolloff MTB ? never thought of that...


Rohloff hubs are very popular with MTB riders in Europe. A friend
visiting Germany rented a MTB there and to his surprise it came with a
Rohloff hub. Considered almost normal there. In the US, not so, never
seen one on the trails and I see a lot of bikes there.

[...]

The idea is that it is not normal/stupid to ride with an open gearbox in
bad conditions. According to that idea a gearhub is the way to go. If
you want a wide range (MTB) and a good efficiency (sportive riding) you
end up with a Rohloff hub naturally.
Your gearbox of your car is also closed and filled with oil. No?


The gearbox in my car does not cost as much as a whole rest of the
vehicle itself. Not even close. The Rohloff does. That is a major difference.


You telling us that you break everything or everything is knocked off
riding your epic trails. I was wondering you didn't mention knocking of
your rear derailleur every ride or two yet. That would also be a reason to
go for a gear hub. Are Americans so poor that they can't save up for a
Rohloff hub if that would be the solution for their kind of riding and we
Europians can? Are we making more money, are we smarter or putting our
priorities different? Just asking.

How many Europeans are using Rohloff hubs? A lot of people don't like
the drag, weight, expense, complexity. There is little if any long-term
pay-off for the type of riding they do. I know a lot of people who race
mountain bikes -- pros, top national riders, strong local riders, and
none of them use Rohloff hubs. None of my CX friends own them. I would
think that if they were clearly superior for the type of riding done by
this cohort (and the length of time they keep their bikes), I would see
at least one. Rohloff makes a great hub with lots of benefits for a
certain crowd, but it is not the crowd I ride with.

-- Jay Beattie.


There is no drag. There is no complexity. The weight is insignificant. Do
you think riding in muddy conditions with an open gearbox is wise? Please
let the pro riders and top national riders out of the equation. In really
tough and muddy conditions I see a lot of trouble with a derailleur system,
skipping chains, chain suck are the main issues. Why do you think the pro
CX riders change their bike for a clean one every 1 or 2 laps?
--
Lou


See
http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp52-2001.pdf I'm also repeating reports by some people that certain ratios are especially draggy. And the Rohloff is a complex system. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/i...peedbild2.jpeg If the transmission goes bad, you have to ship it off for service or buy a replacement, AFAIK. http://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/_mig...014_06_web.pdf

Assuming the bike is built for SS and doesn't need a chain tensioner, then I would definitely agree that IGHs avoid known problems with normal derailleur systems. There are some real benefits to IGHs, and I'm not denying that. But suggesting that Americans are crazy for not spending $1,200 USD for a Rohloff IGH is over the top, particularly since they are probably most beneficial in situations that people never see (e.g. deep mud). I've ridden my CX bike in deep mud, and shifting is not great, but it still works well enough -- and then I hose it off. I've never been so disappointed with shifting performance that I felt the need for an IGH.

-- Jay Beattie.



Hey Jay I'm not saying that anyone, Amaricans or Europians, should spend
whatever a Rohloff hub costs. I was wondering why you see more Rohloff
hubs in Europe on normal bikes (I count 5 or 6 in the bike parking at
work just on utility bikes) than in the USA. Ride whatever you like, or
can affort. I will only respond if the arguments to not buy a Rohloff
hub or an other IGH are not correct such as drag, complexity or weight etc.

Lou
  #60  
Old April 11th 15, 10:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 7:34:09 PM UTC+1, wrote:

Rollo's have fiber cogs. How spend that much for fiber cogs in the sweet spot is beyond me [snip

INCREDULOUS


This stupid lie by Gene Daniels has now been admitted to be a lie by Gene Daniels, characteristically not where he told the lie and was faced up with it, and tried five times to deny it, but in another, moribund thread -- https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ch/qHX7-pLJ3NU -- where he hopes his admission will escape notice; also, typically, his admission is bookended by dully unimaginative ad hominem abuse:

On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 4:41:20 PM UTC+1, wrote:
aww Jutee you are a dumb pig.

I could not find the fiber references only refer by memory which is accurate.

now why anyone would begin shouting liar at me I dunno.

fiber....that's what the rebuilders said////for lightness.

you stand for.....you should stay or your continent bully your nabs who would run over your pipe again


We've now established that Gene Daniels is a liar, and that instead of admitting he made up the "fiber cogs" and apologizing when called on his lie, tried to cover up the lie by repeated denials and personal attacks on me, and even attacks on Rohloff riders at large. The proof is in this thread.

You're scum, Daniels. As for buillying you, I wouldn't even notice a zero-achievement, zero-entertainment-value, zero-knowledge loser like you if you didn't continually try to wreck my threads in the hope that people will instead read your illiterate crap. It's not me keeping people from reading your wretched drooling, sonny, it's your stupidity and dishonesty and ignorance.

Andre Jute




 




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