Federal Investigation widened...

On 5/26/2010 1:12 PM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message news:r-

We'll have to see. I'm especially interested in how effective this
investigation will be, considering that most of the alleged doping
took place outside of the USA.

Brad Anders
Time will tell.


Dumbass -

They've got to find some sort of paper trail. Otherwise, it's a
he-said/she-said situation.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

Really??!! You are a brilliant asshole, Fred.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
==========
It's more and more becoming a 'he said, they said' thing
==========

There was a time it wasn't? Seriously?

Until someone finds a money trail, that's all this is, and all this has
ever been.


Dumbass -

There are people on this group who are trying to assert that it is more than
that. One of those idiots (Laff@me) tried to liken it to BALCO, but BALCO
started off with a syringe and blood (DNA evidence). It continued because
BALCO was a drug manufacturing enterprise with a facility in Burlingame,
California, employees, client lists full of professional athletes from a
whole range of North American professional sports (even cycling w/ Tammy
Thomas), lab technicians, etc.

Lotsa hard evidence.

In the LANCE/Flandis situation, without the paper trail, there's not even
anything to show (outside of he-said/she-said) that a crime has occurred,
except Flandis' positive dope test at the TdF, but that test 1) happened
outside the US and 2) points at Flandis, not LANCE.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

On 5/26/2010 1:39 PM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
==========
It's more and more becoming a 'he said, they said' thing
==========

There was a time it wasn't? Seriously?

Until someone finds a money trail, that's all this is, and all this
has ever been.


Dumbass -

There are people on this group who are trying to assert that it is more
than that. One of those idiots (Laff@me) tried to liken it to BALCO, but
BALCO started off with a syringe and blood (DNA evidence). It continued
because BALCO was a drug manufacturing enterprise with a facility in
Burlingame, California, employees, client lists full of professional
athletes from a whole range of North American professional sports (even
cycling w/ Tammy Thomas), lab technicians, etc.

Lotsa hard evidence.

In the LANCE/Flandis situation, without the paper trail, there's not
even anything to show (outside of he-said/she-said) that a crime has
occurred, except Flandis' positive dope test at the TdF, but that test
1) happened outside the US and 2) points at Flandis, not LANCE.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.
Speak for yourself dickhead. The only similarity I've pointed out
between BALCO and Armstrong is the involvement of Novitsky.

As to proving cases in court, time will tell what is developed. It's
amazing the kinds of tracks even the most careful people leave. Try to
get it though your head into that pea sized brain of yours that the
interest the Feds have centers on fraudulent use of US government monies
and fraud in the procurement of an insurance policy from SCA Promotions
worth $5million+.

I wonder if any of Lance's teammates took photos to share down the road.
Maybe they saved txt messages, voicemails, emails. It's early on in
the investigations. I will tell you that the US Attorney in the
Northern District of California has the reputation for publicizing
arrests of high profile individuals. Check out his web site.

IIRC, Thom Weisel has dealt with this US Attorney's office before. It
could be something of a reunion.

On May 26, 1:11*pm, "B. Lafferty" wrote:

I don't speak excathedra, so you'll never hear me pontificate. *I have a
question for you and all the other asswipes here. Do you think Tom
Weisel will take the fall for Lance or will he cut a deal and throw
Lance and Johan under the bus?

dumbass,

Weisel will never even be involved.

On 5/26/2010 2:20 PM, Amit Ghosh wrote:
On May 26, 1:11 pm, "B. wrote:

I don't speak excathedra, so you'll never hear me pontificate. I have a
question for you and all the other asswipes here. Do you think Tom
Weisel will take the fall for Lance or will he cut a deal and throw
Lance and Johan under the bus?

dumbass,

Weisel will never even be involved.

Thom said to tell you, "From your lips to God's ears."

As to proving cases in court, time will tell what is developed. It's
amazing the kinds of tracks even the most careful people leave. Try to
get it though your head into that pea sized brain of yours that the
interest the Feds have centers on fraudulent use of US government monies
and fraud in the procurement of an insurance policy from SCA Promotions
worth $5million+.

Is this just busy work for someone (at the Fed) needing something to do?

In the "real" world, it would depend entirely upon how the SCA contract was
worded. There may not be an after-the-finding recourse; it may be very
specifically spelled out that there is a timeframe in which any evidence
must be brought forth before a finding can be made in favor of SCA. Even a
typical insurance policy allows for payment in the event of fraud after a
period of time (typically two years, in the case of my own life insurance
policy, meaning that I could lie about my medical condition and only during
the first two years can they cancel or modify the policy).

If the Feds have nothing better to do than to go after an $8 million/year
expenditure that ended many years ago, while people wrote up and made tons
of $$$ from fraudulent mortgages backed by the government every single day
for years (fraudulent because they were based on false information regarding
ability to pay)... and those people haven't been touched... something's
seriously wrong with this picture.

The government has a legitimate role in looking at potential tax fraud, but
this other stuff is just way too far out there, and with too-little possible
recovery of significant revenue, for me to be happy that they're spending
tax dollars on it.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

On May 26, 11:20*am, Amit Ghosh wrote:
On May 26, 1:11*pm, "B. Lafferty" wrote:

I don't speak excathedra, so you'll never hear me pontificate. *I have a
question for you and all the other asswipes here. Do you think Tom
Weisel will take the fall for Lance or will he cut a deal and throw
Lance and Johan under the bus?

dumbass,

Weisel will never even be involved.

Uh bro, he doesn't have a choice at this point. He was the original
owner of Tailwind and they cashed the checks from the USPS. That's
what you call a paper trail. The feds will want to see the receipts
for the "misc medical expenses" account on the ledger for a few of
those years.
-DA74

On 5/26/2010 2:59 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
As to proving cases in court, time will tell what is developed. It's
amazing the kinds of tracks even the most careful people leave. Try to
get it though your head into that pea sized brain of yours that the
interest the Feds have centers on fraudulent use of US government
monies and fraud in the procurement of an insurance policy from SCA
Promotions worth $5million+.

Is this just busy work for someone (at the Fed) needing something to do?

I think not.


In the "real" world, it would depend entirely upon how the SCA contract
was worded. There may not be an after-the-finding recourse; it may be
very specifically spelled out that there is a timeframe in which any
evidence must be brought forth before a finding can be made in favor of
SCA. Even a typical insurance policy allows for payment in the event of
fraud after a period of time (typically two years, in the case of my own
life insurance policy, meaning that I could lie about my medical
condition and only during the first two years can they cancel or modify
the policy).

Civil issues regarding the policy are one thing. Here the Feds are
apparently looking into criminal fraud, mail/wire fraud, conspiracy.


If the Feds have nothing better to do than to go after an $8
million/year expenditure that ended many years ago, while people wrote
up and made tons of $$$ from fraudulent mortgages backed by the
government every single day for years (fraudulent because they were
based on false information regarding ability to pay)... and those people
haven't been touched... something's seriously wrong with this picture.

You'd be amazed how interested the Feds can be in fraud schemes that
involve $5 million and the mis-use of US government funds. The Feds are
usually very interested. Apparently that is the situation here.

The government has a legitimate role in looking at potential tax fraud,
but this other stuff is just way too far out there, and with too-little
possible recovery of significant revenue, for me to be happy that
they're spending tax dollars on it.

Tax fraud is one small area of Federal criminal prosecutions. I noticed
that Armstrong isn't returning calls from the press. Smart. I have to
think his attorneys have advised him to shut up. It will be interesting
to see if the matter reaches the point where counsel for Radio Shack
advises RS to start putting distance between it and Lance.

Are the bookies in the UK giving odds yet on whether or not Lance goes
to France for the Tour?


--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

On 5/26/2010 1:02 PM, B. Lafferty wrote:
On 5/26/2010 1:39 PM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
==========
It's more and more becoming a 'he said, they said' thing
==========

There was a time it wasn't? Seriously?

Until someone finds a money trail, that's all this is, and all this
has ever been.


Dumbass -

There are people on this group who are trying to assert that it is more
than that. One of those idiots (Laff@me) tried to liken it to BALCO, but
BALCO started off with a syringe and blood (DNA evidence). It continued
because BALCO was a drug manufacturing enterprise with a facility in
Burlingame, California, employees, client lists full of professional
athletes from a whole range of North American professional sports (even
cycling w/ Tammy Thomas), lab technicians, etc.

Lotsa hard evidence.

In the LANCE/Flandis situation, without the paper trail, there's not
even anything to show (outside of he-said/she-said) that a crime has
occurred, except Flandis' positive dope test at the TdF, but that test
1) happened outside the US and 2) points at Flandis, not LANCE.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.
Speak for yourself dickhead. The only similarity I've pointed out
between BALCO and Armstrong is the involvement of Novitsky.

As to proving cases in court, time will tell what is developed. It's
amazing the kinds of tracks even the most careful people leave. Try to
get it though your head into that pea sized brain of yours that the
interest the Feds have centers on fraudulent use of US government monies
and fraud in the procurement of an insurance policy from SCA Promotions
worth $5million+.

I wonder if any of Lance's teammates took photos to share down the road.
Maybe they saved txt messages, voicemails, emails. It's early on in the
investigations. I will tell you that the US Attorney in the Northern
District of California has the reputation for publicizing arrests of
high profile individuals. Check out his web site.

IIRC, Thom Weisel has dealt with this US Attorney's office before. It
could be something of a reunion.

Dumbass, two questions:

- Did you come as you typed that?

- Aren't you the guy that said the feds would be coming
after flandis for hacking the French lab's computer?

Fred Flintstein

On 5/26/2010 3:40 PM, Fred Flintstein wrote:
On 5/26/2010 1:02 PM, B. Lafferty wrote:
On 5/26/2010 1:39 PM, F. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
==========
It's more and more becoming a 'he said, they said' thing
==========

There was a time it wasn't? Seriously?

Until someone finds a money trail, that's all this is, and all this
has ever been.


Dumbass -

There are people on this group who are trying to assert that it is more
than that. One of those idiots (Laff@me) tried to liken it to BALCO, but
BALCO started off with a syringe and blood (DNA evidence). It continued
because BALCO was a drug manufacturing enterprise with a facility in
Burlingame, California, employees, client lists full of professional
athletes from a whole range of North American professional sports (even
cycling w/ Tammy Thomas), lab technicians, etc.

Lotsa hard evidence.

In the LANCE/Flandis situation, without the paper trail, there's not
even anything to show (outside of he-said/she-said) that a crime has
occurred, except Flandis' positive dope test at the TdF, but that test
1) happened outside the US and 2) points at Flandis, not LANCE.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.
Speak for yourself dickhead. The only similarity I've pointed out
between BALCO and Armstrong is the involvement of Novitsky.

As to proving cases in court, time will tell what is developed. It's
amazing the kinds of tracks even the most careful people leave. Try to
get it though your head into that pea sized brain of yours that the
interest the Feds have centers on fraudulent use of US government monies
and fraud in the procurement of an insurance policy from SCA Promotions
worth $5million+.

I wonder if any of Lance's teammates took photos to share down the road.
Maybe they saved txt messages, voicemails, emails. It's early on in the
investigations. I will tell you that the US Attorney in the Northern
District of California has the reputation for publicizing arrests of
high profile individuals. Check out his web site.

IIRC, Thom Weisel has dealt with this US Attorney's office before. It
could be something of a reunion.

Dumbass, two questions:

- Did you come as you typed that?

- Aren't you the guy that said the feds would be coming
after flandis for hacking the French lab's computer?

Fred Flintstein

Well Flintstone, I recall a discussion about the French authorities and
their issuance of an arrest warrant for Landis. There was some question
as to whether or not it was an international arrest warrant--I recall it
was not. I don't recall the French government seeking the enforcement of
their warrant here in the US, do you?