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#21
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On 25/02/2019 09:37, RJH wrote:
'Falling off' and 'vehicle impact' often happen at once, I'd have thought? I wouldn't. I would imagine that 'vehicle impact' involves being 'thrown off'. |
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#22
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On 25/02/2019 11:29, Simon Jester wrote:
On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 9:32:30 AM UTC, RJH wrote: On 24/02/2019 14:44, Simon Jester wrote: I assume you always wear a helmet, not just when cycling. Nope, just cycling, motorbiking and skiing. Michael Schumacher would probably like to comment on that if he could. Was he wearing a helmet? |
#23
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On 25/02/2019 12:09, TMS320 wrote:
On 25/02/2019 09:37, RJH wrote: 'Falling off' and 'vehicle impact' often happen at once, I'd have thought? I wouldn't. I would imagine that 'vehicle impact' involves being 'thrown off'. OK, got it. -- Cheers, Rob |
#24
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On 25/02/2019 12:10, GB wrote:
On 25/02/2019 11:29, Simon Jester wrote: On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 9:32:30 AM UTC, RJH wrote: On 24/02/2019 14:44, Simon Jester wrote: I assume you always wear a helmet, not just when cycling. Nope, just cycling, motorbiking and skiing. Michael Schumacher would probably like to comment on that if he could. Was he wearing a helmet? Yes, and skiing got me in to this helmet for cycling business. Cracked my head - hard - a couple of times skiing, and (luckily) that made me think. The helmet has saved me a couple of nasty skiing knocks. Weirdly, on my last holiday a couple of weeks back, the worst was some idiot turned while holding his skis at shoulder height, and swung them into the back of my head. I think Schumacher's accident was a trail of very unfortunate circumstances. Cycling does of course have a different set of risks, and a helmet only protects against a possibly small proportion of those. But, as I say, given the low costs and hassle, why not. Although - I think a couple of you have suggested the risk of injury goes up when wearing a cycling helmet - the example of child fatalities, and motorists being more likely to drive into cyclists with helmets. I've also heard people suggest false sense of security - but I don't have one of those ;-) Quite willing to listen, but not convinced yet . . . -- Cheers, Rob |
#25
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On 23/02/2019 00:49, MrCheerful wrote:
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1745...afety-warning/ I bought a helmet a few weeks ago and within a couple of rides I had a crash that involved me going over the handle bars and rolling along the ground afterwards. Surprisingly the only injury I got was a small scratch on my leg. So now I can number myself amongst the cyclists whose life has been saved by a helmet. Thank you MrCheerful, if it weren't for you I would probably be dead. |
#26
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 09:42:52 +0000
RJH wrote: On 24/02/2019 20:54, Rob Morley wrote: But what about the circumstances when a helmet can be harmful? Rotational brain trauma can be more damaging than direct impact, for example. And did you know that you might be more likely to be hit by a car if you're wearing a helmet? Ah, no, I didn't know that. Why might that be likely? Is this evidenced at all, or some theory extrapolated? Risk compensation by drivers. It's been measured by at least one proper study. Obviously there's still the element of a driver misjudging speed and/or distance badly enough to hit you, but the reduction in error margin is real. |
#27
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On 25/02/2019 17:16, Rob Morley wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 09:42:52 +0000 RJH wrote: On 24/02/2019 20:54, Rob Morley wrote: But what about the circumstances when a helmet can be harmful? Rotational brain trauma can be more damaging than direct impact, for example. And did you know that you might be more likely to be hit by a car if you're wearing a helmet? Ah, no, I didn't know that. Why might that be likely? Is this evidenced at all, or some theory extrapolated? Risk compensation by drivers. It's been measured by at least one proper study. Obviously there's still the element of a driver misjudging speed and/or distance badly enough to hit you, but the reduction in error margin is real. OK, thanks - is that the heart rate variability study of 2011? it's the only one I can find - "helmet users reported higher experienced risk and cycled slower when they did not wear their helmet"? -- Cheers, Rob |
#28
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 18:00:57 +0000
RJH wrote: On 25/02/2019 17:16, Rob Morley wrote: Risk compensation by drivers. It's been measured by at least one proper study. Obviously there's still the element of a driver misjudging speed and/or distance badly enough to hit you, but the reduction in error margin is real. OK, thanks - is that the heart rate variability study of 2011? it's the only one I can find - "helmet users reported higher experienced risk and cycled slower when they did not wear their helmet"? Well no, because that would be risk compensation by cyclists not drivers, and it has nothing to do with measuring passing distances. |
#29
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 09:37:35 +0000, RJH wrote:
On 24/02/2019 20:12, Ian Smith wrote: On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 12:59:26 +0000, RJH wrote: Common sense tells me that a cycle helmet can help in certain circumstances - and it's worth wearing one on that basis. What if wearing a helmet makes things worse in certain circumstances? How do you determine that the circumstances that it makes worse are less prevalent or less serious than the ones where it helps? I can't think of a single likely circumstance where wearing a helmet would make a cycling injury worse. When I was last knocked off my bike I was not wearing a helmet and my head didn't hit anything, but it did pass very close by a kerbstone. Had I been wearing a helmet, there's a chance that rather than just miss it would have hit the kerbstone, possibly tangentially and wrenched my head round. Since I suffered absolutely no head or neck injury, a helmet simply could not have helped - you can't get less than no injury. There are easily foreseeable scenarios where it could have made matters worse. Also consider the consequences of risk compensation. Suppose I had some sort of lucky talisman that would protect you from all injury if you ever fell off your bike with no other vehicle around, but it made it twice as likely that you'd be hit by each car that overtook you. Would you want one of your own? Your logic (i.e. that it helps in certain circumstances, so must be good) suggests you'd want the talisman, even though it nearly doubles the chances of your death each time you go out riding (cyclists rarely die without interaction with a motor vehicle). Not sure I see your point there. Are you saying wearing a helmet makes me twice as likely to be hit by a car? No. "Suppose I had..." indicates a hypothetical. It's a thought experiment. You're supposed to think about the hypothetical scenario set out, consider what would happen if it were true, and then consider whether that conclusion should influence what is true. Cycle helmets are designed to help in the sort of impacts that arise from falling off. They aren't designed to achieve very much in a motor vehicle impact. That's why they have disclaimers on them saying they aren't suitable for motor sport. 'Falling off' and 'vehicle impact' often happen at once, I'd have thought? I have fallen off without any motor vehicle impact. I have been hit by a motor vehicle and not fallen off. If you're hit by fast-travelling motor vehicle that's likely to do more damage than the ground does when you get to it. regards, Ian SMith -- |\ /| no .sig |o o| |/ \| |
#30
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 7:15:39 PM UTC, Ian Smith wrote:
I have fallen off without any motor vehicle impact. I have been hit by a motor vehicle and not fallen off. If you're hit by fast-travelling motor vehicle that's likely to do more damage than the ground does when you get to it. I have never worn a cycling helmet in 60 years and have hit my head only once when my front wheel slipped on some diesel. I hit my head on the road and had a bump on my bonce for a few days, that's all. |
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