another cyclist dies.

I agree.


"Rich Clark" wrote in message
...
"Doug Huffman" wrote in message
. ..

[top-posting corrected]

"Rich Clark" wrote in message
...

"Doug Huffman" wrote in message
.. .
Who is liable if a motorist collides while passing at your
direction?

The way I understand it, passing safely is always the responsibility
of
the
vehicle operator doing the passing.


That must be why motorists are so often cited for colliding with
cyclists.
Damn careless cyclists passing.

The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

I must be dim today. I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

RichC

Don't take that **** mate, get on the bus and abuse the driver, then
get off and ride away. thats what id do if they tried a ****witted
stunt like that

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:02:48 GMT, "Preston Crawford"
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 03:24:12 +0000, Steve Knight wrote:

well this guy was going the wrong way it looks like. don't know about
a
helmet.
http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=61858

I won't bother to point out what others have, that this guy was going the
right direction.

However, as someone who lives in Portland, I can vouch for this being a huge
problem. A lot of the bus drivers, in spite of the fact that they drive
vehicles that transport people who choose alternative methods, hate
cyclists and barely like pedestrians. Because of this, the antipathy runs
both ways. I'm not saying that was the temperment of this driver and many
drivers I've met in my travels here in Portland have been very nice. But
some of them have also been some of the biggest jerks I've ever met. They
drive like hell and don't really pay much attention to what they're doing
and they basically hate their customers.

Also, it indeed wasn't raining Friday (I was out in it) so that wasn't a
problem. And yes, these places were buses pull over are a huge problem.
Most of the time, what bus drivers will do is pass you and pull in front
of you. I've almost been tatered many many times by a bus driver that
couldn't wait the 5 seconds for me to get pass the bus stop, so he/she
decided to whip in front of me like they were driving a mini cooper, cross
the bike lane and pull up to the bus stop right in front me, forcing me to
slam on my brakes to avoid getting hit. A lot of them drive like this and
just don't give a damn, so a collision like this doesn't surprise me at
all. In my mind, the buses in Portland are the single most dangerous thing
on the road in areas where they run frequently. Minus the bus mall. The
bus mall and downtown in general are relatively safe. But anywhere outside
of downtown (and 126th and Halsey would definitely be way outside, almost
to Gresham) the drivers do this kind of thing all the time. The cyclist
may have made a sudden move, but this sounds like to me the whole thing
could have been avoided if the bus driver would have waited a whole 3
second before making his/her bus stop. And THAT is a big problem (as I
said before) here in Portland. Bus drivers do this all the time.

Sorry for ranting. This just gets me fired up because I see near misses
all the time by some of these buses. I'd be willing to be money that this
accident would never have happened had the bus driver waited just a second
more. But he/she probably wasn't paying attention to traffic and what was
going on to his/her left. Now someone is dead.

Preston

good on ya

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:35:37 GMT, (sbirn)
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:32:07 GMT, Steve Knight wrote:
I agree. I don't like riding on streets with busses. I almost got squeezed
between a bus passing me and a car. if I had not slowed down and let the bus
pass I would have been a sandwich.

I've been cut off by the odd bus pulling over to stop to pick up
passengers. I almost now regard it as routine. I've also had a bus or
two pull out into traffic with complete disregard to my presence.

But by far the worst incident occured on a two-lane road with gravel
shoulders. I was in the middle of a perfectly straight stretch of road
than ran for at least two km. Riding about a foot from the soft shoulder
I suddenly had a bus come up from behind at full speed, passing less than
a foot to my left. The wind from the bus blew me way off onto the
shoulder and almost flipped me into the ditch.

When I pulled into the bus station a few minutes later, I got onto the
bus and demanded an explanation from the driver. The response I was
given was that I had no business being there.

Not good enough. I called the cops and the driver got reamed out, but
since I'd missed the disembarking passengers, there were no witnesses.
Interestingly, the passengers who got onto the bus at the station
were VERY supportive of me, despite my holding up the bus for over 15
minutes while waiting for the police before the company sent a
replacement bus for them.

The Real Bev spake thusly on or about Tue, 28 Oct
2003 06:30:30 UTC

- Note: I only do this in residential areas where meeting anybody at a
- 4-way is an uncommon occurrence. In real traffic I do what the car
- right next to me is doing and/or make a proper stop.
-

so you habitually disregard and break traffic regulations when it suits
you. I am still not suprised that motorists do not trust you to behave
correctly.

--
I hurt before the ride so fibro gives me a head
start on the rest of the pack. silver lining?

In article qfOMuGrZTFdc-pn2-2d7cZ4Gd8z52@merlin,
Bran wrote:
The Real Bev spake thusly on or about Tue, 28 Oct
2003 06:30:30 UTC

- Note: I only do this in residential areas where meeting anybody at a
- 4-way is an uncommon occurrence. In real traffic I do what the car
- right next to me is doing and/or make a proper stop.
-

so you habitually disregard and break traffic regulations when it suits
you. I am still not suprised that motorists do not trust you to behave
correctly.

--
I hurt before the ride so fibro gives me a head
start on the rest of the pack. silver lining?



As a biker and a motorist, I expect that at certain residential
intersections a biker will not 'stop', particularly if the stop
is at (or worse, near) the top of a long hill, so that they
lose momentum. I don't particularly -fault- them for doing so.

IMO, as long as the biker is predictable (again as a motorist),
and rides reasonably, I'm way happy.

What ticks me off (as a motorist) is when the biker is weaving,
or going very slow in the middle of the lane, or is not using
hand signals, or blatantly zips through red lights on the main
streets, when it's easy, flat and level. But it's not enough to
cause me to be upset or anything.

-B

--
Email Replies to johnsonnospm01j att ntelos dott net

Does anybody agree with me the photo seems to show a pair of
lightweight headphones dangling from this poor cyclist's bike?
I can't tell for sure, but if the cyclist was wearing them and
listening to a radio or something, that places this accident's analyis
in a different light.

r.b.


well this guy was going the wrong way it looks like. don't know about
a
helmet.
http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=61858

--

(flatline) wrote:

Does anybody agree with me the photo seems to show a pair of
lightweight headphones dangling from this poor cyclist's bike?....

Looks like a shifter to me.

Looks like the shifter broke off.

But how would wearing headphones affect whether or not a bus hits you
as it pulls to the side of the road ( the scenario offered by
witnesses)? With perfect hearing, you would hear the bus approaching
you. Being in a sharable lane ( i.e., there's a bike lane) you would
assume the bus is going to pass you, not pull into you. The only way
hearing would work here is for you to pull off the road everytime a
car passes you. Not too practical.

With the alternate scenario ( th eone the bus driver offered) that the
cyclist pulled in front of the bus because he was avoiding a car (
maybe a car pulling out into the road?), I suppose hearing might be of
use - the cyclist could have used his hearing to decide that the bus
approaching him was bigger than the car he wanted to avoid and decide
to get hit by the car rather than the bus. But htis seems a little
silly.

Maybe the driver meant he bicyclist was weaving in and out of parked
cars and that's why the bus hit him? In that case, the bicyclist had
bigger problems than headphones.

So I don't see how headphones put the accident in a totally different
light.

-Peter R.


(flatline) wrote in message . com...
Does anybody agree with me the photo seems to show a pair of
lightweight headphones dangling from this poor cyclist's bike?
I can't tell for sure, but if the cyclist was wearing them and
listening to a radio or something, that places this accident's analyis
in a different light.

r.b.


well this guy was going the wrong way it looks like. don't know about
a
helmet.
http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=61858

--

Does anybody agree with me the photo seems to show a pair of
lightweight headphones dangling from this poor cyclist's bike?
I can't tell for sure, but if the cyclist was wearing them and
listening to a radio or something, that places this accident's
analyis in a different light.

I noticed them, I agree it looks like a pair of headphones. But
he was allegedly hit from behind, which would IMHO make that
irrelevant. Even if he heard the bus, it wouldn't be unusual
to hear a bus approaching from behind on a bus route.

Oregon law seems to indicate that motor vehicles must yeild
to bicycles in bike lanes, and even if he wasn't in the lane
(which might or might not be a violation, Oregon has mandatory
side path/lane with some weasely exceptions) the bus apparently
was the overtaking vehicle.

I'm not clear on whether wearing headphones while riding in
Portland is specifically illegal, Preston could probably tell
us. But even if it is, and even if the alleged headphones
belonged to the cyclist, we don't know that he was wearing them.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
in.edu__________

On 28 Oct 2003 21:39:28 GMT, (Papayahed1) wrote:

(flatline) wrote:

Does anybody agree with me the photo seems to show a pair of
lightweight headphones dangling from this poor cyclist's bike?....

Looks like a shifter to me.


Those are headphones. If you resize the image to 300%, you can trace
from the left brake lever/shifter, both cables right where you'd
expect them to be.






*´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·- Ratz O. Fratzo