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ERD ERD ERD MEASUREMENTS
WELL, here we are again. Dave White's information, posted under ERD and THE FLUSH TWICE MOVEMENT, works but seems to require an on paper graphic record for measurements. AS, how much thread is there in the nipples. Bringing me to ask, when spokes are measured for sale, the measurement includes the spoke bend to bottom cone of the spoke head. OK, so does ERD plus the evil demon Spoke Calc account for spoke bend plus head cone in spoke flange hole. And Dave ? why not measure the distance from flange hole to top spoke/ rim/insert area with a tape measure with rim and flange set in a dishing tool ? |
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#2
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ERD ERD ERD MEASUREMENTS
kolldata wrote:
WELL, here we are again. Dave White's information, posted under ERD and THE FLUSH TWICE MOVEMENT, works but seems to require an on paper graphic record for measurements. AS, how much thread is there in the nipples. Bringing me to ask, when spokes are measured for sale, the measurement includes the spoke bend to bottom cone of the spoke head. OK, so does ERD plus the evil demon Spoke Calc account for spoke bend plus head cone in spoke flange hole. And Dave ? why not measure the distance from flange hole to top spoke/ rim/insert area with a tape measure with rim and flange set in a dishing tool ? Spoke Calc certainly isn't an evil in my mind. I have and use it regularly. However, not ALL rims or hubs are included. So sometimes you have to do your own measuring and plugging the measurements into the spreadsheet. To the best of my knowledge, spoke lengths DO NOT include the bend, per se. Perhaps it is most clear when you look at the measuring tool I use http://www.parktool.com/product/spoke-bearing-and-cotter-gauge-sbc-1. You hook the spoke head into the elongated hole and measure the spoke's length. The thing is certainly accurate to 1mm and every time I have ordered a spoke in a given length, they have matched on this tool when I checked. I am sure there are many ways to measure ERD. I am not sure I am getting what you are suggesting. I just use the method I suggested because (a) it is cheap/free, (b) it was easy enough for me to understand, (c) required no special tools that I lacked, (d) it seemed to work and match the results I got when using Spoke Calc's database. Good enough for me! Cheers |
#3
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ERD ERD ERD MEASUREMENTS
On Jul 5, 3:22*pm, David White wrote:
kolldata wrote: WELL, here we are again. Dave White's information, posted under ERD and THE FLUSH TWICE MOVEMENT, works but seems to require an on paper graphic record for *measurements. AS, how much thread is there in the nipples. Bringing me to ask, when spokes are measured for sale, the measurement includes the spoke bend to bottom cone of the spoke head. OK, so does ERD plus the evil demon Spoke Calc account for spoke bend plus head cone in spoke flange hole. And Dave ? why not measure the distance from flange hole to top spoke/ rim/insert area with a tape measure with rim and flange set in a dishing tool ? Spoke Calc certainly isn't an evil in my mind. I have and use it regularly. However, not ALL rims or hubs are included. So sometimes you have to do your own measuring and plugging the measurements into the spreadsheet. To the best of my knowledge, spoke lengths DO NOT include the bend, per se. Perhaps it is most clear when you look at the measuring tool I use http://www.parktool.com/product/spoke-bearing-and-cotter-gauge-sbc-1. You hook the spoke head into the elongated hole and measure the spoke's length. The thing is certainly accurate to 1mm and every time I have ordered a spoke in a given length, they have matched on this tool when I checked. I am sure there are many ways to measure ERD. I am not sure I am getting what you are suggesting. I just use the method I suggested because (a) it is cheap/free, (b) it was easy enough for me to understand, (c) required no special tools that I lacked, (d) it seemed to work and match the results I got when using Spoke Calc's database. Good enough for me! Cheers do you know of the wood dishing beam ? one length straight and solid 2x4 with blocks either end at rim diameter up from 2x4 surface at dish height or 1/2 axle span for front wheel. The hub sits in a depression made in 2x4 or 2x4 shim (for alternate hub's with differing hub shapes) or made to fit the axle directly using a longer axle, a more precise but unecessary design feature. In use, the builder measures distance from hub flange hole to inside rim with or without a nipple. Builder then goes to LBS and buys 8 of these length spokes, 2 for each wheel quadrant. Insert spokes, make finally measurments adjustments. measured then bought as in use as a wheel not as a incorrect mathmatic construct feed into software. The wood beam then gives the correct dish as spokes are woven into rim during building. The beam holding rim in correct shape, rests on your lap or table. The use of computer software for wheel building is tangential to the project's successful completion. A curiosity, no more. |
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ERD ERD ERD MEASUREMENTS
On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 15:43:19 -0700 (PDT), kolldata wrote:
The use of computer software for wheel building is tangential to the project's successful completion. A curiosity, no more. I must disagree. Picking the correct spoke length makes building MUCH faster. The appropriate nipple driver will quickly bring all spokes to the same effective lenght, ideally just as the spokes start to see tension as the last spoke's nipple goes on. Easiest way to get the lenght right the first time on a rim/hub/pattern you've never built before is to measure the parts and plug in to a program/spreadsheet/whatever. (Thinking back, I realize I've been using such a calculator since summer of 1982, running on my then new HP 15-C. Following year TRS-80 PC-3's (pocket computer) programed with similar program were gifts to a bunch of the mechanics I worked with. We were not impressed when Avocet (IIRC ... or was it DT?) started to market their calculator a few years later.) -- ershc |
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ERD ERD ERD MEASUREMENTS
ERSHC wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 15:43:19 -0700 (PDT), kolldata wrote: The use of computer software for wheel building is tangential to the project's successful completion. A curiosity, no more. I must disagree. Picking the correct spoke length makes building MUCH faster. The appropriate nipple driver will quickly bring all spokes to the same effective lenght, ideally just as the spokes start to see tension as the last spoke's nipple goes on. Easiest way to get the lenght right the first time on a rim/hub/pattern you've never built before is to measure the parts and plug in to a program/spreadsheet/whatever. (Thinking back, I realize I've been using such a calculator since summer of 1982, running on my then new HP 15-C. Following year TRS-80 PC-3's (pocket computer) programed with similar program were gifts to a bunch of the mechanics I worked with. We were not impressed when Avocet (IIRC ... or was it DT?) started to market their calculator a few years later.) I agree that building once with the correct length beats building, interpolating and building twice! Those are all fine platforms. Or a slide rule. Or a data set such as notes written on the wall by the wheel station. Or ink on meat: http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/SPOKFORM.JPG The point being the result, whichever process one prefers. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#6
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ERD ERD ERD MEASUREMENTS
"AMuzi" wrote in message ... ERSHC wrote: On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 15:43:19 -0700 (PDT), kolldata wrote: The use of computer software for wheel building is tangential to the project's successful completion. A curiosity, no more. I must disagree. Picking the correct spoke length makes building MUCH faster. The appropriate nipple driver will quickly bring all spokes to the same effective lenght, ideally just as the spokes start to see tension as the last spoke's nipple goes on. Easiest way to get the lenght right the first time on a rim/hub/pattern you've never built before is to measure the parts and plug in to a program/spreadsheet/whatever. (Thinking back, I realize I've been using such a calculator since summer of 1982, running on my then new HP 15-C. Following year TRS-80 PC-3's (pocket computer) programed with similar program were gifts to a bunch of the mechanics I worked with. We were not impressed when Avocet (IIRC ... or was it DT?) started to market their calculator a few years later.) I agree that building once with the correct length beats building, interpolating and building twice! Those are all fine platforms. Or a slide rule. Or a data set such as notes written on the wall by the wheel station. Or ink on meat: http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/SPOKFORM.JPG The point being the result, whichever process one prefers. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I thought Gene was perhaps being humorous with his use of the word "tangential". Kerry |
#7
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ERD ERD ERD MEASUREMENTS
On Jul 6, 10:13*pm, "Kerry Montgomery" wrote:
"AMuzi" wrote in message ... ERSHC wrote: On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 15:43:19 -0700 (PDT), kolldata wrote: The use of computer software for wheel building is tangential to the project's successful completion. A curiosity, no more. I must disagree. Picking the correct spoke length makes building MUCH faster. The appropriate nipple driver will quickly bring all spokes to the same effective lenght, ideally just as the spokes start to see tension as the last spoke's nipple goes on. Easiest way to get the lenght right the first time on a rim/hub/pattern you've never built before is to measure the parts and plug in to a program/spreadsheet/whatever. (Thinking back, I realize I've been using such a calculator since summer of 1982, running on my then new HP 15-C. Following year TRS-80 PC-3's (pocket computer) programed with similar program were gifts to a bunch of the mechanics I worked with. We were not impressed when Avocet (IIRC ... or was it DT?) started to market their calculator a few years later.) I agree that building once with the correct length beats building, interpolating and building twice! Those are all fine platforms. Or a slide rule. Or a data set such as notes written on the wall by the wheel station. Or ink on meat: http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/SPOKFORM.JPG The point being the result, whichever process one prefers. -- Andrew Muzi *www.yellowjersey.org/ *Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I thought Gene was perhaps being humorous with his use of the word "tangential". Kerry- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - nooooo tangential. you speakee englisee ? look. yawl building a bicycle wheel, right ? Posters are first time wheel builders. So you need a dishing tool. The dishing tool and a tape measure give the complete irrduceable and often correct lengths without feeding figures that have no bearing whatsoever on the real time bicycle wheel into a software machine that spouts figures for which you have noooooo data to compare with 'ceptin the idiotic software based ERD tool. The wheel and the wooden beam are built with hands and mind not mind and unknown machinery from a distant...and airless... planet |
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