DT Tensiometer

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this.
First- I am assuming that the DT is the best- it is what I used while
working at a couple of shops on the east coast over the past 10 or so
years...
I don't need one. Not right now. But I do want one right now.
However, I plan to open a small bike shop in eastern WA in about a
year, so I will likely be able to get one as a dealer at that point.
But I still want one now!
So to the point:
I've seen 'em available on-line for around $370. I don't recall the
wholesale cost, though...
Does anyone here know it so I can convince myself (or not) that I can
wait?
Thanks,
Dan

On Oct 21, 8:58*pm, Danny Obermeyer wrote:
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this.
First- I am assuming that the DT is the best- it is what I used while
working at a couple of shops on the east coast over the past 10 or so
years...
I don't need one. Not right now. But I do want one right now.
However, I plan to open a small bike shop in eastern WA in about a
year, so I will likely be able to get one as a dealer at that point.
But I still want one now!
So to the point:
I've seen 'em available on-line for around $370. I don't recall the
wholesale cost, though...
Does anyone here know it so I can convince myself (or not) that I can
wait?
Thanks,
Dan

If you understand tension spoked wheels, you'll understand that the
referenced item is practically next to worthless. It may possibly
help in selling to the gullible (otherwise known as the masses) but
you are doing yourself a diservice for it diverts attention away from
what is really happening in wheel response. The response of a wheel
should be measured directly, not by an arbitary spoke tension. Only
by comparison of different constructional techniques measured at the
rim can the wheelbuilder see the meaningful differences in his wheels.

If you build poor wheels, you may need the thing as a sales aid. If
you build good wheels, people will buy them in their droves if you can
supply them at a fair price. Nobody needed anything more, in the
practical sense, than a nipple key and a pair of hands to build good
wheels.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:58:06 -0700 (PDT), Danny Obermeyer
wrote:

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this.
First- I am assuming that the DT is the best- it is what I used while
working at a couple of shops on the east coast over the past 10 or so
years...
I don't need one. Not right now. But I do want one right now.
However, I plan to open a small bike shop in eastern WA in about a
year, so I will likely be able to get one as a dealer at that point.
But I still want one now!
So to the point:
I've seen 'em available on-line for around $370. I don't recall the
wholesale cost, though...
Does anyone here know it so I can convince myself (or not) that I can
wait?
Thanks,
Dan


There is also a F S A 752-5050 gauge that appears to be cheaper then
the DT gauge and works in the same manner.


--
John B.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 16:21:26 -0700 (PDT)
thirty-six wrote:

If you build poor wheels, you may need the thing as a sales aid. If
you build good wheels, people will buy them in their droves if you can
supply them at a fair price. Nobody needed anything more, in the
practical sense, than a nipple key and a pair of hands to build good
wheels.

What, no soldering iron?




Mike

Danny Obermeyer wrote:

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this.
First- I am assuming that the DT is the best- it is what I used while
working at a couple of shops on the east coast over the past 10 or so
years...
I don't need one. Not right now. But I do want one right now.

I have a DT Tensio of my own. But nineteen times out of twenty, I'll
use the Park tensiometer instead because it's easier to read and has a
more intuitive scale.

Chalo

On Oct 21, 2:58*pm, Danny Obermeyer wrote:
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this.
First- I am assuming that the DT is the best- it is what I used while
working at a couple of shops on the east coast over the past 10 or so
years...
I don't need one. Not right now. But I do want one right now.
However, I plan to open a small bike shop in eastern WA in about a
year, so I will likely be able to get one as a dealer at that point.
But I still want one now!
So to the point:
I've seen 'em available on-line for around $370. I don't recall the
wholesale cost, though...
Does anyone here know it so I can convince myself (or not) that I can
wait?
Thanks,
Dan

Dealer cost will be significantly less. That said, you can build
perfectly great wheels with the far less expensive TM-1, especially if
you use your ear to confirm its readings. The more expensive tool is
nice--but overkill for most.

On Oct 22, 8:31*am, landotter wrote:

Dealer cost will be significantly less. That said, you can build
perfectly great wheels with the far less expensive TM-1, especially if
you use your ear to confirm its readings. The more expensive tool is
nice--but overkill for most.

Thanks everyone for your responses- very helpful.
To be certain, I would never sell a wheelset as a quality item based
on its spoke tension. I'm sure there are shops that supply a laminated
chart of the measured tension for each spoke, as well as a star chart
that shows the alignment of the planets as they were when the final
bit of stress was relieved from the wheel. Right- it's meaningless to
a person who just wants to ride their bike. However, I like to use a
tensiometer as a referential gauge of what my hands are up to. Yeah,
we built great wheels in 1988 without them. Is it nice to have another
metric to keep track of? In my humble opinion, yes. I'm not an
engineer, and I vow to never get in the way of the data!
Thanks again,
Dan

On Oct 22, 4:34 am, Chalo wrote:
Danny Obermeyer wrote:

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this.
First- I am assuming that the DT is the best- it is what I used while
working at a couple of shops on the east coast over the past 10 or so
years...
I don't need one. Not right now. But I do want one right now.

I have a DT Tensio of my own. But nineteen times out of twenty, I'll
use the Park tensiometer instead because it's easier to read and has a
more intuitive scale.


I couldn't afford DT. Couldn't *really* afford even Park, but bought
one anyway, and am glad I did.

On Oct 22, 8:50*am, Danny Obermeyer wrote:
On Oct 22, 8:31*am, landotter wrote:

Dealer cost will be significantly less. That said, you can build
perfectly great wheels with the far less expensive TM-1, especially if
you use your ear to confirm its readings. The more expensive tool is
nice--but overkill for most.

Thanks everyone for your responses- very helpful.
To be certain, I would never sell a wheelset as a quality item based
on its spoke tension. I'm sure there are shops that supply a laminated
chart of the measured tension for each spoke, as well as a star chart
that shows the alignment of the planets as they were when the final
bit of stress was relieved from the wheel. Right- it's meaningless to
a person who just wants to ride their bike. However, I like to use a
tensiometer as a referential gauge of what my hands are up to. Yeah,
we built great wheels in 1988 without them. Is it nice to have another
metric to keep track of? In my humble opinion, yes. I'm not an
engineer, and I vow to never get in the way of the data!
Thanks again,
Dan

I think tensiometers are SOP these days, no appologies required. The
Jobst soft-taco model for determining spoke tension no longer works,
and manufacturers are now spec'ing spoke tension -- unlike 30 years
ago when the Book was written. Rims crack more easily now, IMO. I
have cracked probably a half-dozen modern rims by running them above
manufacturers'
recommended tension (as measured with a tensiometer and done
intentionally to avoid detensioning) and learned that you have to stay
in spec' and have to resort to other means of keeping the wheel
straight -- lighter spokes, heavier rims, thread goop, etc. The days
of 120mm hubs and ModE rims wound up to tensions just below rim
deformation are behind us. It has taken me a long time to get over old
habits.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Oct 22, 5:23*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Oct 22, 8:50*am, Danny Obermeyer wrote:









On Oct 22, 8:31*am, landotter wrote:

Dealer cost will be significantly less. That said, you can build
perfectly great wheels with the far less expensive TM-1, especially if
you use your ear to confirm its readings. The more expensive tool is
nice--but overkill for most.

Thanks everyone for your responses- very helpful.
To be certain, I would never sell a wheelset as a quality item based
on its spoke tension. I'm sure there are shops that supply a laminated
chart of the measured tension for each spoke, as well as a star chart
that shows the alignment of the planets as they were when the final
bit of stress was relieved from the wheel. Right- it's meaningless to
a person who just wants to ride their bike. However, I like to use a
tensiometer as a referential gauge of what my hands are up to. Yeah,
we built great wheels in 1988 without them. Is it nice to have another
metric to keep track of? In my humble opinion, yes. I'm not an
engineer, and I vow to never get in the way of the data!
Thanks again,
Dan

I think tensiometers are SOP these days, no appologies required. *The
Jobst soft-taco model for determining spoke tension no longer works,
and manufacturers are now spec'ing spoke tension -- unlike 30 years
ago when the Book was written. *Rims crack more easily now, IMO. *I
have cracked probably a half-dozen modern rims by running them above
manufacturers'
recommended tension (as measured with a tensiometer and done
intentionally to avoid detensioning)

The term crackpot comes to mind.

and learned that you have to stay
in spec' and have to resort to other means of keeping the wheel
straight -- lighter spokes, heavier rims, thread goop, etc.

All used to be done on 0.8mm thick rims. You needed THICKER SPOKES
for 24 spoke wheels, not heavier rims. Linseed oil or tub cement has
always been used to hold nipples in racing rims. It was not needed
with single wall wired-on rims, the rim-tape under the pressure of the
tube would hold the nipples still, especially a rubber tape.

The days
of 120mm hubs and ModE rims wound up to tensions just below rim
deformation are behind us. It has taken me a long time to get over old
habits.


What not a clever idea, destroy a rim to determine how high to never
take spoke tension. while getting sore fingers and watching the
plating flake off the nipples. There are a few cues in the state of
the nipples and sore fingers which should point that the spoke tension
is too high before looking at a buckled rim.