Best Way To Carry Pepper Spray ?

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:16:27 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman wrote:

Be aware that in the US, unlike the UK, the owner of mean dogs in rural
areas will almost always have a loaded firearm near to hand. Similarly,
they will also have a motor vehicle that could be used against a
cyclist. However, if you tell them you have already called the cops
about their dog, they will likely back off.

First of all, I second the recommendations to get animal control
involved in this case. The bitch is a repeat offender.
It may be true that the owner would have a firearm at the ready, but
somehow I doubt they'd be fool enough to use it, especially if you
immediately remind them that people go to prison for shooting people.
Amid all the discussion of how to use pepper spray, I have not heard
anyone mention what kind/brand of the stuff they are using, nor where
it's available. I'm the world's worst shopper, and I have never seen
this kind of stuff in a store. I'd probably buy some if I knew what to
look for and where.

Bill

Halt! is the brand that I am using. It is the same as used by the
postal service for the past 30 years. Some LBSs may carry it. I bought
mine on the internet for about $5 per can plus shipping.

You can also buy more powerful stuff aimed at personal protection but
I found it is about 3 times the price. In North Carolina it is
available at license plate agencies or gun shops.

Steve

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:49:21 GMT, Keiron wrote:

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:34:19 -0500, Steve Sr. wrote:

Hello,

I hope that all of you had a happy Thanksgiving and got a chance to ride
off some of the excess!

Do any of you have any suggestions on a good way to carry pepper spray
to be used against vicious canines? I have recently started carrying
some to use against a problem dog on my lunch time ride. Since I know
where the dog is I have been carrying the pepper spray in my pocket and
taking it out before I get to where the dog might be loose.

Carrying the pepper spray in a pocket is not a good place if traveling
in unfamiliar areas. It needs to be carried somewhere it is immediately
accessible near the handlebars. Can any of you offer suggestions as to
holsters or other methods of carrying pepper spray.


Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet still
continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit bull
who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper spray but
will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this dog is smart
enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep getting pepper
sprayed.


Thanks,

Steve

Not exactly what you're asking for but if you're not the slightest of
chaps I honestly recommend slowing down before the area which it occurs,
unclip the dog-side leg and give the blighter a boot, sounds awful and
make sure it's defensive (don't chase it and boot it repeatedly!) cos it
can be trouble with the law but often you'll get benefit of the doubt.
Also helps if the owner's not in sight: no offence to anyone but I've
found owners of vicious dogs often have quite a bite themselves. Good
luck.

Nice thought but this dog is smart enough to stay just out of reach.
Plus it is exceedingly dangerous to try to play polo with a dog while
on a moving bicycle.

Steve

My wife witnessed a neighbor lady get nastily mauled by a dog this
summer. In that case I went out, and like you say, sorta stared the dog
down. It circled and snarled, but didn't come after me as long as I
stayed looking at it. That ended with the police taking the dog and
having it put down. It had attacked someone once before.[...]

Substitute "owner" for "dog" and the outcome would have been better.



Yep.

Today we rode past the sight of thursdays attack. The big mean dog (
about a 100 lbs or so ) was there, tied by a long chain to a dog house.
It seemed very agitated and would have, if it could, gone after brother
again. It ignored me. Humm.... ? The color of his bike maybe ? It's
a bright red. Or something. In any case, we were quite happy it
couldn't drag the doghouse, although it was trying.


back to the original topic, I was ready with my can of HALT this time.
Had it in my hand. It's possible to ride that way, carrying it, but not
really the best idea. I am keeping it on a velcro strap. The velcro loop
is duct taped to the can and then looped around / over my right brake
lever and cable.



jim d

On Nov 29, 9:04 pm, jim d wrote:
My wife witnessed a neighbor lady get nastily mauled by a dog this
summer. In that case I went out, and like you say, sorta stared the dog
down. It circled and snarled, but didn't come after me as long as I
stayed looking at it. That ended with the police taking the dog and
having it put down. It had attacked someone once before.[...]

Substitute "owner" for "dog" and the outcome would have been better.

Yep.

Today we rode past the sight of thursdays attack. The big mean dog (
about a 100 lbs or so ) was there, tied by a long chain to a dog house.
It seemed very agitated and would have, if it could, gone after brother
again. It ignored me. Humm.... ? The color of his bike maybe ? It's
a bright red. Or something. In any case, we were quite happy it
couldn't drag the doghouse, although it was trying.

back to the original topic, I was ready with my can of HALT this time.
Had it in my hand. It's possible to ride that way, carrying it, but not
really the best idea. I am keeping it on a velcro strap. The velcro loop
is duct taped to the can and then looped around / over my right brake
lever and cable.

jim d

For some reason, I like to name all the various segments of my commute
route: "The Day Walk" (Byrds song title, and a stretch of road not
unlike some that I have walked that take a significant part of the
day), "It's good to be alive stretch" (a stretch of road adjacent to
something that stinks so bad one can only breath deeply and say to
oneself, "it's good to be alive" :-), "Stair-step hill" (two climbs
with a brief flat interlude), "Sheep hill", a hill adjacent to a field
where two lambs and mother ewe used to live), and (drum roll,
please)... "Dog hill", where a pair of big dogs always hear me coming
up the hill, start barking to let each other know, and head for the
road to intercept me at the top. One of the dogs - a blond color, and
apparently a little older (and wiser) than the other - stops at the
road - or rather, turns and chases me along the road but staying in
the field. The other - a dark colored dog - apparently younger (and a
frickin' idiot), runs right out into the road and chases me down.
He's never actually made contact, but gets right up there.

I usually try to get by as fast as I can; and if my mojo's working I
can zoom past without giving them much chance to nip at my heels. I
also employ my usual dog language, cheerfully saying "Hi,
pooch" (sometimes followed by, "good dog"), which almost always has
the effect of changing any dog's barking tone from "I'm gonna get you"
to "Oh... well, hello to you, too. No offense, this barking and
chasing business is just my job, you know."

This black dog at Dog Hill, though - he's truly an irredeemable
idiot. So one day I'm comin' up the hill, I hear them barking, I
*also* hear cars coming behind me and toward me (multiple cars). This
is a rural connecting road w/ 55 mph speed limit. Here comes blacky
as I try to srpint by, here comes oncoming cars, and blacky runs right
out and "wham!"... bounces off the bumper of this econobox car - with
an earnest yelping, he runs up the driveway and under the porch...

I stop and walk my bike up the driveway to the porch, calling, "Hi,
pooch - it's okay". The blonde dog (and then an even older one that
can't be bothered and/or knows better than to join the chase) come out
and sort of challenge my presence, but jeez, I'm saying "Hi, pooch",
so what are they gonna do, anyway.

I knock on the house door, but nobody home. (Assholes!! Way to treat
your dogs!)

After that I ride by every day, *hoping* for blacky to give chase (how
ironic is that). Eventually... there he is :-) - barking and chasing,
but this time he stays in the field with his partner. ;-)

After a while, though, I don't see blacky anymore. Don't know for
sure, but suspect he didn't learn well enough the first time :-(

This story kind of makes me sound like a dog sympathizer; and while I
do love all animals (being one myself), I also had a stint working in
a local health department where (among other things) I occasionally
took dog bite reports. They're always "a good dog", yet it seems that
any of them are capable of ripping a kid's face off in the right/wrong
circumstances. So I definitely believe that anyone responsible for a
dog had better be.. um, *very* responsible.

And if one comes after you, it may be a shame (and the "owner's"
fault), but do whatever you have to do.

On Nov 29, 9:43 pm, Dan O wrote:
On Nov 29, 9:04 pm, jim d wrote:



My wife witnessed a neighbor lady get nastily mauled by a dog this
summer. In that case I went out, and like you say, sorta stared the dog
down. It circled and snarled, but didn't come after me as long as I
stayed looking at it. That ended with the police taking the dog and
having it put down. It had attacked someone once before.[...]

Substitute "owner" for "dog" and the outcome would have been better.

Yep.

Today we rode past the sight of thursdays attack. The big mean dog (
about a 100 lbs or so ) was there, tied by a long chain to a dog house.
It seemed very agitated and would have, if it could, gone after brother
again. It ignored me. Humm.... ? The color of his bike maybe ? It's
a bright red. Or something. In any case, we were quite happy it
couldn't drag the doghouse, although it was trying.

back to the original topic, I was ready with my can of HALT this time.
Had it in my hand. It's possible to ride that way, carrying it, but not
really the best idea. I am keeping it on a velcro strap. The velcro loop
is duct taped to the can and then looped around / over my right brake
lever and cable.

jim d

For some reason, I like to name all the various segments of my commute
route: "The Day Walk" (Byrds song title, and a stretch of road not
unlike some that I have walked that take a significant part of the
day), "It's good to be alive stretch" (a stretch of road adjacent to
something that stinks so bad one can only breath deeply and say to
oneself, "it's good to be alive" :-), "Stair-step hill" (two climbs
with a brief flat interlude), "Sheep hill", a hill adjacent to a field
where two lambs and mother ewe used to live), and (drum roll,
please)... "Dog hill", where a pair of big dogs always hear me coming
up the hill, start barking to let each other know, and head for the
road to intercept me at the top. One of the dogs - a blond color, and
apparently a little older (and wiser) than the other - stops at the
road - or rather, turns and chases me along the road but staying in
the field. The other - a dark colored dog - apparently younger (and a
frickin' idiot), runs right out into the road and chases me down.
He's never actually made contact, but gets right up there.

I usually try to get by as fast as I can; and if my mojo's working I
can zoom past without giving them much chance to nip at my heels. I
also employ my usual dog language, cheerfully saying "Hi,
pooch" (sometimes followed by, "good dog")...

(Replying to own post :-)

Let me qualify that: When blacky gets right on my heels, I don't say,
"Hi pooch" or "good dog". Then I say, "F**k off!"

In article ,
Luigi de Guzman writes:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:56:14 -0800, Tom Keats wrote:


Pepper spray isn't the only weapon in the arsenal. But weapons are to be
invoked only after reasonable means & enticements have been shown to be
ineffective.

Nothing gets a dog all distracted & obsessed like peanut butter. Or in
some cases, ice cream. But it's usually logistically difficult to pack
defensive ice cream on a bicycle.


By dropping treats from a bicycle, aren't you training the dog to chase
other cyclists? The dog chases a cyclist. The dog gets a treat. Surely
after enough positive reinforcement, the dog learns a new trick.

No, that's not how it works. Dogs identify and recognize
the individual. So do the crows to whom I feed tidbits
during my lunchtime at work.

They don't know cyclists-in-general from a hole in the ground.

Frankly, I don't think pepper spray is as effective on
canines/lupines as it is on other mammals. Bear Spray
isn't necessarily Dog Spray. In fact, it isn't necessarily
very effective Bear Spray.

Predatory critters such as canines, lupines, ursines and
felines have an amazing capacity to clear their olfactory
stuff, thereby being better enabled to scent their
respective dinners.

What they /don't/ want is having strong scents stuck onto
them, like sulphurous skunk spray. It gives away their
stalking positions to their prey. That's why dogs
(especially sporting dogs) like to roll around in icky
stuff -- it helps them to blend in with the environment,
as well as masking the carnivore scent that all dogs carry.

The worst thing to do to a predatory critter is to put
a hard-to-remove, unnatural scent on them. That's why
some domestic cats are so touchy about who pets them.
If you're a smoker, you're persona non grata to many
cats.

Pepper spray doesn't necessariy work on animules like
it does on people.

What's with this reliance on pepper spray as if it's
the ultimate repellant for /everything/, anyways?

A good bear spray is that which a skunk produces.
Bears leave skunks alone, and for good reason.
And skunks don't shoot papain, they shoot horribly
sulphurous compounds that linger until the bear
takes a tomato juice bath.

Skunk juice might be hard to procure, but all that
stinky, sneezy stuff at the cosmetics counter when
you walk into a department store is readily available.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:11:25 -0600, Tom Sherman wrote:

Keiron wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:34:19 -0500, Steve Sr. wrote:

Hello,

I hope that all of you had a happy Thanksgiving and got a chance to
ride off some of the excess!

Do any of you have any suggestions on a good way to carry pepper spray
to be used against vicious canines? I have recently started carrying
some to use against a problem dog on my lunch time ride. Since I know
where the dog is I have been carrying the pepper spray in my pocket
and taking it out before I get to where the dog might be loose.

Carrying the pepper spray in a pocket is not a good place if traveling
in unfamiliar areas. It needs to be carried somewhere it is
immediately accessible near the handlebars. Can any of you offer
suggestions as to holsters or other methods of carrying pepper spray.


Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit
bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper
spray but will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this
dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep
getting pepper sprayed.


Thanks,

Steve

Not exactly what you're asking for but if you're not the slightest of
chaps I honestly recommend slowing down before the area which it
occurs, unclip the dog-side leg and give the blighter a boot, sounds
awful and make sure it's defensive (don't chase it and boot it
repeatedly!) cos it can be trouble with the law but often you'll get
benefit of the doubt. Also helps if the owner's not in sight: no
offence to anyone but I've found owners of vicious dogs often have
quite a bite themselves. Good luck.

Be aware that in the US, unlike the UK, the owner of mean dogs in rural
areas will almost always have a loaded firearm near to hand. Similarly,
they will also have a motor vehicle that could be used against a
cyclist. However, if you tell them you have already called the cops
about their dog, they will likely back off.

Land of the Free brother, land of the free. Would you have it any other
way?

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 20:56:59 -0500, Steve Sr. wrote:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:49:21 GMT, Keiron wrote:

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:34:19 -0500, Steve Sr. wrote:

Hello,

I hope that all of you had a happy Thanksgiving and got a chance to
ride off some of the excess!

Do any of you have any suggestions on a good way to carry pepper spray
to be used against vicious canines? I have recently started carrying
some to use against a problem dog on my lunch time ride. Since I know
where the dog is I have been carrying the pepper spray in my pocket
and taking it out before I get to where the dog might be loose.

Carrying the pepper spray in a pocket is not a good place if traveling
in unfamiliar areas. It needs to be carried somewhere it is
immediately accessible near the handlebars. Can any of you offer
suggestions as to holsters or other methods of carrying pepper spray.


Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit
bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper
spray but will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this
dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep
getting pepper sprayed.


Thanks,

Steve

Not exactly what you're asking for but if you're not the slightest of
chaps I honestly recommend slowing down before the area which it occurs,
unclip the dog-side leg and give the blighter a boot, sounds awful and
make sure it's defensive (don't chase it and boot it repeatedly!) cos it
can be trouble with the law but often you'll get benefit of the doubt.
Also helps if the owner's not in sight: no offence to anyone but I've
found owners of vicious dogs often have quite a bite themselves. Good
luck.

Nice thought but this dog is smart enough to stay just out of reach.
Plus it is exceedingly dangerous to try to play polo with a dog while on
a moving bicycle.

Steve

Didn't say it was flawless Although you do bring a polo mallet in to
the picture, strap that bad-boy to the downtube, tally ho!

:::
::: Steve, this dog needs to be reported to the authorities. It is just
::: a matter of time before someone gets mauled.
:::
:: This dog has been reported to the Authorities on multiple occasions.
:: Animal Control is totally toothless. All they can do is give the
:: owner a citation. I suspect that only after someone is seriously
:: injured will they take further action.
::
::
:: Steve

Is there not a law that after a certain number of citations something else
is done? Or that the second citation carries a substantial fine and the
third citation doubles that, etc? I doubt if they would be "toothless" if
you complained to the mayor or your councilman.

Pat in TX

Tom Keats wrote:

I have a strong hunch that scents like Chanel No 5
or Revlon's "Charlie" would be more effective than
pepper spray for repelling canines. I figure animules
who like to roll around in manure & rotten fish guts
must absolutely hate to smell pretty -- such predatory
techniques as smelling pretty seem to work only for
human females.

I like this idea better than the skunk scent idea. If I'm going to
go home after spilling something on me, I'd rather it be perfume
than skunk scent.

Actually, as a married man I'm not quite sure about that. If I try
this, I'd better do full disclosure ahead of time

There are a lot of perfumes cheaper than Chanel #5 -- I'm thinking
Wal-mart, not Nordstrom's.

But does it work?????