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New B&M 100lux headlight.



 
 
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  #51  
Old December 7th 17, 08:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 114
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 4:00:54 AM UTC+1, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 06:46:01 -0800, sms
wrote:
Yes. The trade-off needs to be made. I'm sure we'd all run out and buy
a dynamo light if it was possible to build one that was adequate for
the riding conditions we experience. Unfortunately it isn't yet
possible to build such a dynamo light.


Good grief, Steven. What bull**** you spout. There are people around
the world riding pefectly contentedly all night long on bikes with
dynamo lights- and have been for decades, even before the advancements
of LEDs and computer designed mirrors and lenses.

Now, for some reason *you* don't find those satisfactory. That's fine.
But that's about you and your preferences, not about the lights
themselves.

I have several dynamo-equipped bicycles, and even the one with a
top-of-the-line dynamo light requires a battery powered light as well
for many situations.


"Top of the line" being what, specifically?

My bikes have:

(A) a B&M 3w halogen lamp powered by a Sanyo BB generator. This is the
lamp I rode across rural and urban Minnesota and France with. Worked
fine. Better in the countryside than in town, where it gets washed out
a bit by streetlights, headlights, etc. I still use it frequently on my
commuter bike, for which it works well enough in urban Minnesota. I'd
like it to be a smidge brighter. Hence:

(B) a Schmidt eDelux powered by a Schmidt SON 28. I bought this a few
years ago. Works great. The beam could be, as you and some other
critics have noted, a bit wider. It's never inconvenienced me in terms
of running into problems, just feels a little claustrophobic at 20+ mph.
Hence:

(C) a forthcoming eDelux II (if it ever gets here, for Pete's sake
shipping is slow this time of year), to be powered by a Velological
generator. Looking forward to checking this out.

Prior to A, B and C I had built a 12v headlamp using an MR16, like many
tinkerers do. It put out a lot of bright light, much of which went to
waste. Visibility was not as good as with A and definitely worse than
B. The circular beam resulted in inadequate performance. As with the
improvements with automobile headlights, bike headlights have come a
very long way from the glorified flashlights many espouse.


Tim I use a SON Delux dyno with a EdeluxII headlamp for my winter nightrides on roads. I can't understand why people consider this combination as not sufficient for road riding (off road is a different story) but I don't have the illusion that I can convince Mr Scharf as he can't convince me of using a battery powered light that I have to charge after every 2 hr ride.

Lou
Ads
  #52  
Old December 7th 17, 03:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 2,813
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 11:40:08 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 4:00:54 AM UTC+1, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 06:46:01 -0800, sms
wrote:
Yes. The trade-off needs to be made. I'm sure we'd all run out and buy
a dynamo light if it was possible to build one that was adequate for
the riding conditions we experience. Unfortunately it isn't yet
possible to build such a dynamo light.


Good grief, Steven. What bull**** you spout. There are people around
the world riding pefectly contentedly all night long on bikes with
dynamo lights- and have been for decades, even before the advancements
of LEDs and computer designed mirrors and lenses.

Now, for some reason *you* don't find those satisfactory. That's fine.
But that's about you and your preferences, not about the lights
themselves.

I have several dynamo-equipped bicycles, and even the one with a
top-of-the-line dynamo light requires a battery powered light as well
for many situations.


"Top of the line" being what, specifically?

My bikes have:

(A) a B&M 3w halogen lamp powered by a Sanyo BB generator. This is the
lamp I rode across rural and urban Minnesota and France with. Worked
fine. Better in the countryside than in town, where it gets washed out
a bit by streetlights, headlights, etc. I still use it frequently on my
commuter bike, for which it works well enough in urban Minnesota. I'd
like it to be a smidge brighter. Hence:

(B) a Schmidt eDelux powered by a Schmidt SON 28. I bought this a few
years ago. Works great. The beam could be, as you and some other
critics have noted, a bit wider. It's never inconvenienced me in terms
of running into problems, just feels a little claustrophobic at 20+ mph..
Hence:

(C) a forthcoming eDelux II (if it ever gets here, for Pete's sake
shipping is slow this time of year), to be powered by a Velological
generator. Looking forward to checking this out.

Prior to A, B and C I had built a 12v headlamp using an MR16, like many
tinkerers do. It put out a lot of bright light, much of which went to
waste. Visibility was not as good as with A and definitely worse than
B. The circular beam resulted in inadequate performance. As with the
improvements with automobile headlights, bike headlights have come a
very long way from the glorified flashlights many espouse.


Tim I use a SON Delux dyno with a EdeluxII headlamp for my winter nightrides on roads. I can't understand why people consider this combination as not sufficient for road riding (off road is a different story) but I don't have the illusion that I can convince Mr Scharf as he can't convince me of using a battery powered light that I have to charge after every 2 hr ride.


I think everyone would agree that having a light you don't have to charge is very convenient. How much light a person needs, however, is subjective. My night vision sucks. There are times when I want more than 500 lumens, which is about the maximum output of my Luxos B. No light is enough it in a rain storm. OTOH, it takes very little light to be seen in my opinion, and there is nothing worse than a mega-power bike light pointing right at me. I'm not in NL, but I ride around a lot of other cyclists for an American city, and the uber-bright lights are not just annoying, they're dangerous. I've been blinded to the point of not being able to see the road for a few seconds, and bright flashing lights should be criminalized. Some tail lights are far too bright. I was riding behind a woman last night (until I could get around her) who had a rear flasher that was like a landing light. Mine is bright, but it pulses. This was on a separate bike path, so it's not like she was going to get hit by a car.

On a two way cycle track with adjacent car traffic, a bright, solid on-coming bike light also can be mistaken for a car light in the adjacent MV traffic lane. In heavy bike traffic, I think the best front light is a dyno light with cut-off (because it is distinctive and non-blinding) or a light like the L&M that pulses but does not flash, and if more light is needed (pulse mode is about 300 lumen on my battery light), then perhaps something like the Oculus with cut-off. Too much cut-off is a problem, but a spewing 1000 lumen light is a huge problem in bicycle traffic and totally unnecessary. In the middle of nowhere without traffic, it doesn't matter. Use whatever you want.

Finally, I think that in really dark environments with moonlight or star light (like the PBP French countryside), you can get away with a pretty dim light because your eyes can accommodate. The problem for me is dark pavement and bright on-coming headlights (hills with car lights angled up) or point source lights that don't illuminate the pavement (house or business lights).

-- Jay Beattie.






  #53  
Old December 7th 17, 03:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,025
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On 12/6/2017 11:40 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 4:00:54 AM UTC+1, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 06:46:01 -0800, sms
wrote:
Yes. The trade-off needs to be made. I'm sure we'd all run out and buy
a dynamo light if it was possible to build one that was adequate for
the riding conditions we experience. Unfortunately it isn't yet
possible to build such a dynamo light.


Good grief, Steven. What bull**** you spout. There are people around
the world riding pefectly contentedly all night long on bikes with
dynamo lights- and have been for decades, even before the advancements
of LEDs and computer designed mirrors and lenses.

Now, for some reason *you* don't find those satisfactory. That's fine.
But that's about you and your preferences, not about the lights
themselves.

I have several dynamo-equipped bicycles, and even the one with a
top-of-the-line dynamo light requires a battery powered light as well
for many situations.


"Top of the line" being what, specifically?

My bikes have:

(A) a B&M 3w halogen lamp powered by a Sanyo BB generator. This is the
lamp I rode across rural and urban Minnesota and France with. Worked
fine. Better in the countryside than in town, where it gets washed out
a bit by streetlights, headlights, etc. I still use it frequently on my
commuter bike, for which it works well enough in urban Minnesota. I'd
like it to be a smidge brighter. Hence:

(B) a Schmidt eDelux powered by a Schmidt SON 28. I bought this a few
years ago. Works great. The beam could be, as you and some other
critics have noted, a bit wider. It's never inconvenienced me in terms
of running into problems, just feels a little claustrophobic at 20+ mph.
Hence:

(C) a forthcoming eDelux II (if it ever gets here, for Pete's sake
shipping is slow this time of year), to be powered by a Velological
generator. Looking forward to checking this out.

Prior to A, B and C I had built a 12v headlamp using an MR16, like many
tinkerers do. It put out a lot of bright light, much of which went to
waste. Visibility was not as good as with A and definitely worse than
B. The circular beam resulted in inadequate performance. As with the
improvements with automobile headlights, bike headlights have come a
very long way from the glorified flashlights many espouse.


Tim I use a SON Delux dyno with a EdeluxII headlamp for my winter nightrides on roads. I can't understand why people consider this combination as not sufficient for road riding (off road is a different story) but I don't have the illusion that I can convince Mr Scharf as he can't convince me of using a battery powered light that I have to charge after every 2 hr ride.


For commuting, two hours is sufficient for most riders. Prior to the era
where everyone plugs in their devices at night, it might have been seen
as unrealistic to expect anyone to charge a bicycle light every couple
of days, but at least in my house, and in many houses around here, you
get home, you plug in your car, your cell phone, your tablet, and adding
a bicycle light to that mix is not unreasonable.

I do have dynamo wheels on three of my bicycles, and it's nice to have
them for short rides around town where I know the route and where there
is some infrastructure. But they aren't sufficient for a lot of
infrastructure which is mostly unlit, twisting, and with a lot of ups
and downs as it goes over and under roads, railroad tracks, and creeks.
I wish you could see the "Google Bike Expressway" on nights after DST ends.

  #54  
Old December 7th 17, 05:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,472
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On 12/7/2017 2:20 AM, sms wrote:
On 12/6/2017 7:00 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 06:46:01 -0800, sms
wrote:
Yes. The trade-off needs to be made. I'm sure we'd all run out and buy
a dynamo light if it was possible to build one that was adequate for
the riding conditions we experience. Unfortunately it isn't yet
possible to build such a dynamo light.


Good grief, Steven.* What bull**** you spout.* There are people around
the world riding pefectly contentedly all night long on bikes with
dynamo lights- and have been for decades, even before the advancements
of LEDs and computer designed mirrors and lenses.

Now, for some reason *you* don't find those satisfactory.* That's fine.
But that's about you and your preferences, not about the lights
themselves.


No, it's not about *me*. I don't pretend to know what's best for
everyone else, nor do I dismiss the needs of of others simply because I
don't have the same needs.


So you say, but that's not the behavior we've seen from you.

By the same token, I do recognize that
cycling conditions vary by location in terms of traffic, street
lighting, road conditions, terrain, driver quality, and infrastructure.
These are real differences, and anytime someone proclaims that "dark is
dark, it's the same everywhere," it's clear that they have not thought
things through. Lighting needs vary based on all of these factors.


I'm certain that conditions do vary. But in the past, you've often made
blanket statements about dyno lights in general and StVZO lights in
particular, based only on your own imagination. Upthread you claimed it
was impossible to build a dyno light for the conditions "we" (which I
assume is people in this discussion group) experience.

At least in the U.S., people have NOT been riding perfectly contentedly
all night with dynamo lights, at least not very many. Dynamo lights have
never been popular here. You could probably count the number of shops in
the U.S. that sell dynamo lights and wheels on two hands and two feet.


That's not because of any inadequacy of dyno lights. That's because the
U.S. has never seen much practical use of bicycles, and almost no use of
bikes at night. Historically, Americans have used cars for everything as
soon as they could afford a car.

So in America, bikes are mostly toys or fitness equipment, and even most
enthusiasts never use their bike for anything practical. Those who spend
an extra couple thousand dollars to get a bike that's a pound lighter
refuse to budget a pound for a trouble-free lighting system. They're
afraid to ride at night anyway. And telling people they need 1000 lumens
doesn't help that situation.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #55  
Old December 7th 17, 06:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,472
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On 12/7/2017 9:38 AM, jbeattie wrote:

I think everyone would agree that having a light you don't have to charge is very convenient. How much light a person needs, however, is subjective. My night vision sucks. There are times when I want more than 500 lumens, which is about the maximum output of my Luxos B.


I think it's a mistake to state one's requirement in terms of lumens, at
least with the lighting systems that dominate in America. You may _want_
500 lumens, but that's not likely what's really needed.

No light is enough it in a rain storm.


As I've mentioned before, when the roads are coated with rain, even a
car's headlight beams are not apparent to the driver, because the light
bounces down the road instead of reflecting back from the road surface
to the driver's eyes. That would be true if you used an aircraft landing
light. That doesn't mean that objects in the road or at the road's edge
won't be illuminated.

Bikes do have a problem cars don't have: We're more vulnerable to
potholes filled with water. But again, a brighter light is unlikely to
make a practical difference. Riding where the road is smooth is the
better defense.

... uber-bright lights are not just annoying, they're dangerous.


Agreed. They're an excellent example of "MFFY" coupled with unthinking
paranoia.

In heavy bike traffic, I think the best front light is a dyno light with cut-off (because it is distinctive and non-blinding) or a light like the L&M that pulses but does not flash, and if more light is needed (pulse mode is about 300 lumen on my battery light), then perhaps something like the Oculus with cut-off.


Sorry to report this, but the cutoff of the Oculus is not what it should
be. It definitely blinds others. (I have one I'll sell you.)

Finally, I think that in really dark environments with moonlight or star light (like the PBP French countryside), you can get away with a pretty dim light because your eyes can accommodate. The problem for me is dark pavement and bright on-coming headlights (hills with car lights angled up) or point source lights that don't illuminate the pavement (house or business lights).


Those can be problems, although they're usually temporary. I have
similar problems driving country roads, where cars cresting a hill shine
even their low beams right in my eyes. On the bike, I use a cap with a
brim to shade my eyes from a lot of that stuff.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #56  
Old December 7th 17, 10:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,654
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On 07/12/17 15:50, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 6:08:43 PM UTC-8, James wrote:



Bull****. Bull****. Bull****.


Really, James, do I need to use happy faces?


#Joerg should suffice

--
JS

  #57  
Old December 7th 17, 10:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
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Posts: 124
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

James wrote:
On 07/12/17 15:50, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 6:08:43 PM UTC-8, James wrote:



Bull****. Bull****. Bull****.


Really, James, do I need to use happy faces?


#Joerg should suffice


Who is Joerg? The one in the middle?


--
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=967K0nUufy0
  #58  
Old December 8th 17, 09:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Oculus Lights
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Posts: 19
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 9:35:43 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 04/12/17 11:28, Oculus Lights wrote:
On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 2:34:34 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
https://www.bike24.com/p2144878.html



Is there a power rating?


One can safely assume it will work with any normal 6V/3W dynamo.

100 lux at 10 meters, as the STVZO test requires, is exceedingly
bright. I'm hesitant to state they "must" be drawing at least so
much power, but my gut feeling is that its in a range that a single
LED can't handle.


Depends on how the light is focused.

Anyone can rate a light without stating the distance. My single LED
325 lumen measures 33 lux at 10, 500+ lumen measures 50 lux, and the
best of the others on the market, such as Supernova's 205 lm that's
standard equipment on many e-bikes, measure 25 lux at 10 meters, at
most.


My B&M IQTec Premium is rated at 80lux. It also works with a 6V/3W dynamo.

The light is focused to a very bright band just before the cut off, so
that you can aim the light well in to the distance and achieve a
relatively even illumination of the road surface over the entire distance..

If yours is only reaching 33 lux, it is less well focused and more of a
flood light.

See images here.
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messa...d.php?t=131473

--
JS


Those "if" statements followed by unsure speculation from conventional wisdom are always fascinating.
Less well focused and a flood light?
The beam really is different than other types, its its own. Not a flood, not a spot.
The more lumens with the least lux measured brightest spot, the more even a beam must be.
Eventually lights will be measured and rated with beam lumens. That measurement throws away lumens above and below threshold percentage. This gives a nice measure of usable visibility. But cold day in hell when the companies that wrote their own spec will agree to it because of how many of their total lumens are wasted with excessively bright spots, and lost with unreasonably dim edges that the peripheral vision filters out because of how the eye needs stop down the center bright spot.
Check out my ray trace of the Oculus three LED retail light, shown on the "learn more" page of the Oculus Lights website. There's no bright spot, not even a visible cluster of red anywhere.

My STVZO design with one LED, fills out wider than the others across the brighter upper band just below the horizon, and still fills in evenly below it nearly down to road level, with at least 75% of the bright spot's lux measure.
  #59  
Old December 8th 17, 11:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
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Posts: 6,723
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 23:22:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 12/6/2017 9:44 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
I mentioned upthread using my B&M halogen headlight on dusk-to-dawn
brevets and PBP. I saw quite well with that light, but most of those
rides were far out on rural roads with very little ambient light or
light pollution. In town that light is washed out on the road by
street lights, car headlights, etc. Technically the road is just as
brightly illuminated by the lamp as in the country, but the greater
ambient light in town impairs night vision by comparison to a very
dark countryside. Thus the light seems less effective. And since
we're seeing with our eyeballs and not spot meters, it is less
effective in town.


I get good benefit out of a cycling cap with a brim, including at
night. Similarly, I use the visors in my car a lot, including at dusk.
It really helps my night vision to shade my eyes from street lights,
the brighter night sky due to the last bits of sunlight or light
pollution. And of course, if some idiot refuses to dim his high beams,
these things are godsends.


I have never thought of doing that and will try it out.

(About idiots: Yesterday I was in my car, stopped at a red light at
about 9 AM. The pickup truck lawn service guy facing me had his bright
headlights on, glaring in my eyes. I blinked my headlights once, then
once again, trying to get him to dim his lights. His response? He
turned on the off-road light bar on the roof of his cab. There's no
shortage of idiots.)


That's not idiocy, that's aggression. Well, the two are often closely
related so maybe it was idiocy...
  #60  
Old December 8th 17, 11:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 981
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

Tim McNamara writes:

On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 23:22:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 12/6/2017 9:44 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
I mentioned upthread using my B&M halogen headlight on dusk-to-dawn
brevets and PBP. I saw quite well with that light, but most of those
rides were far out on rural roads with very little ambient light or
light pollution. In town that light is washed out on the road by
street lights, car headlights, etc. Technically the road is just as
brightly illuminated by the lamp as in the country, but the greater
ambient light in town impairs night vision by comparison to a very
dark countryside. Thus the light seems less effective. And since
we're seeing with our eyeballs and not spot meters, it is less
effective in town.


I get good benefit out of a cycling cap with a brim, including at
night. Similarly, I use the visors in my car a lot, including at dusk.
It really helps my night vision to shade my eyes from street lights,
the brighter night sky due to the last bits of sunlight or light
pollution. And of course, if some idiot refuses to dim his high beams,
these things are godsends.


I have never thought of doing that and will try it out.

(About idiots: Yesterday I was in my car, stopped at a red light at
about 9 AM. The pickup truck lawn service guy facing me had his bright
headlights on, glaring in my eyes. I blinked my headlights once, then
once again, trying to get him to dim his lights. His response? He
turned on the off-road light bar on the roof of his cab. There's no
shortage of idiots.)


That's not idiocy, that's aggression. Well, the two are often closely
related so maybe it was idiocy...


Maybe. Or maybe the guy actually had his lights on low beam, but, since
the headlights were right at Frank's eye level they seemed too bright.
This often happens to me when a large pickup pulls up behind, especially
if he's using lights mounted on a snow plow. It's annoying, but also
not clear how it could be fixed.

The normal thing to do when someone flashes their brights at you,
supposing you're not on high beam, is to flash back -- I suspect the
pickup had the off-road light relay wired to the high beam. Which might
or might not be legal with an additional switch to disable them, but
it's pretty convenient if you actually use the off-road lights.

Neither idiocy nor malice was strictly required.

--
 




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