Yet another car smashed into a house.

On Jun 4, 9:23*am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On Jun 3, 12:43 pm, Tom Crispin wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 10:26:04 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

Do you remember what you wrote? Or why you wrote it?
I wrote:

I expect the daily number of pedestrian road deaths in Europe greatly
outnumbers those killed by e-coli.

Interestingly, and somewhat off-topic, conspiracy theorists are
claiming that people allied to the meat industry have deliberately and
wrongly attributed the e-coli to vegetables, when in fact it is due to
meat.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/06/480373.html

Nonsense. *It comes from ****. *And because **** is widespread, anything can
be contaminated with it.

Farm animals produce **** and plants do not.

Organic vegetable produce is in fact a very likely carrier. *You see, ****
is organic and natural, and therefore regarded by some lunatics as
wholesome, pure and sustainable. *It is therefore used widely in organic
production.

Unlikely as farm animal **** is not organic. Evidence? They usually
use composted vegetable matter.

*If it's not the cause of the German outbreak, it will be the
cause of some other before long. *It's absolutely inevitable.

My point was that the e-coli deaths are getting a huge amount of air
time and, presumably, investigation. The daily pedestrian deaths get
little air time, and probably far less investigation.

Back on topic, obviously the Precautionary Principle should be applied
equally to road deaths as it is to any other cause of death.

Shouldn't the precautionary principle also apply to all vegetables? *Surely
they should all be removed from the shelves until long term studies over
several years have proved that they're safe?

That would involve removing ALL food from shelves until the source is
determined. In this case the most likely source should be removed
first and particularly animal products..

"...But the EU's Reference Laboratory for E. coli in Rome said such
warnings were not justified as scientific tests "do not support the
hypothesis that contaminated vegetables were the source of the
infection"..."

"...E. coli is a bacterium that usually inhabits the guts of cattle
and sheep and is mostly harmless..."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13652817

Doug.

Doug wrote:
On Jun 4, 9:23 am, "Norman Wells" wrote:

Interestingly, and somewhat off-topic, conspiracy theorists are
claiming that people allied to the meat industry have deliberately
and wrongly attributed the e-coli to vegetables, when in fact it is
due to meat.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/06/480373.html

Nonsense. It comes from ****. And because **** is widespread,
anything can be contaminated with it.

Farm animals produce **** and plants do not.

Well done, Doug! Can't put anything past you, can we?

Organic vegetable produce is in fact a very likely carrier. You see,
**** is organic and natural, and therefore regarded by some lunatics
as wholesome, pure and sustainable. It is therefore used widely in
organic production.

Unlikely as farm animal **** is not organic. Evidence? They usually
use composted vegetable matter.

And ****. Human as well as animal. Presumably only from certified organic
Vegans, but who can tell?

If it's not the cause of the German outbreak, it will be the
cause of some other before long. It's absolutely inevitable.

My point was that the e-coli deaths are getting a huge amount of
air time and, presumably, investigation. The daily pedestrian
deaths get little air time, and probably far less investigation.

Back on topic, obviously the Precautionary Principle should be
applied equally to road deaths as it is to any other cause of death.

Shouldn't the precautionary principle also apply to all vegetables?
Surely they should all be removed from the shelves until long term
studies over several years have proved that they're safe?

That would involve removing ALL food from shelves until the source is
determined. In this case the most likely source should be removed
first and particularly animal products..

No, just vegetables. They're what have been implicated.

"...But the EU's Reference Laboratory for E. coli in Rome said such
warnings were not justified as scientific tests "do not support the
hypothesis that contaminated vegetables were the source of the
infection"..."

Yes. You omitted the bit before, though, which explained:

"Germans are being advised not to eat raw vegetables, although _one_
European laboratory has thrown doubt on whether contaminated produce could
be the source."

You also rather misleadingly omitted other relevant bits from the article:

"The RKI has continued to warn Germans to avoid eating cucumbers, tomatoes
and lettuce.

"Russia - the EU's largest export market for vegetables - has rejected pleas
from Brussels to drop its ban on the import of fresh vegetables.

"The UK has been debating whether produce from Germany should be banned, and
the US has begun inspecting shipments from Germany and Spain.

"One cucumber producer in Germany's Lower Saxony region said he had
destroyed around two million cucumbers and tomatoes on one day alone."

It's high time these killer vegetables were removed from our pavements
before they cause untold harm to vulnerable food users. We have to have a
law against it.


"...E. coli is a bacterium that usually inhabits the guts of cattle
and sheep and is mostly harmless..."

So, that's alright then. Animal products are in the clear. It's only yet
more killer vegetables we need to take off the shelves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13652817

On 04/06/2011 08:11, Doug wrote:
On Jun 3, 12:43 pm, Tom wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 10:26:04 +0100,
wrote:

Do you remember what you wrote? Or why you wrote it?
I wrote:

I expect the daily number of pedestrian road deaths in Europe greatly
outnumbers those killed by e-coli.

Interestingly, and somewhat off-topic, conspiracy theorists are
claiming that people allied to the meat industry have deliberately and
wrongly attributed the e-coli to vegetables, when in fact it is due to
meat.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/06/480373.html

My point was that the e-coli deaths are getting a huge amount of air
time and, presumably, investigation. The daily pedestrian deaths get
little air time, and probably far less investigation.

Back on topic, obviously the Precautionary Principle should be applied
equally to road deaths as it is to any other cause of death.

The 'precautionary principle' is responsible for the decline of our once
great nation idiot.


--
Dave - Cyclings VOR
"Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a legitimate mode of
transport; it
is either a toy for children or a vehicle fit only for the poor and/or
strange," Dave Horton, of Lancaster University.

On 04/06/2011 08:11, Doug wrote:
On Jun 3, 12:43 pm, Tom wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 10:26:04 +0100,
wrote:

Do you remember what you wrote? Or why you wrote it?
I wrote:

I expect the daily number of pedestrian road deaths in Europe greatly
outnumbers those killed by e-coli.

Interestingly, and somewhat off-topic, conspiracy theorists are
claiming that people allied to the meat industry have deliberately and
wrongly attributed the e-coli to vegetables, when in fact it is due to
meat.

This outbreak has a very low incidence of infecting young children. That
would be unusual if it were due to infected meat, but, as they do not
normally form a significant part of the diet of young children, it is
consistent with the source being fresh vegetables.

Colin Bignell

On Jun 5, 6:22*pm, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:

This outbreak has a very low incidence of infecting young children. That
would be unusual if it were due to infected meat, but, as they do not
normally form a significant part of the diet of young children, it is
consistent with the source being fresh vegetables.

Colin Bignell

German beansprouts were the culprit. I've been eating them every day
on holiday.
In fact, here's our dinner in Heidelberg last Wednesday.

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4587/jun013.jpg

--
Simon Mason

On Jun 5, 6:37*pm, Simon Mason wrote:
On Jun 5, 6:22*pm, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:



This outbreak has a very low incidence of infecting young children. That
would be unusual if it were due to infected meat, but, as they do not
normally form a significant part of the diet of young children, it is
consistent with the source being fresh vegetables.

Colin Bignell

German beansprouts were the culprit. I've been eating them every day
on holiday.
In fact, here's our dinner in Heidelberg last Wednesday.

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4587/jun013.jpg

No it seems beansprouts have been exonerated. The main sources of e-
coli are farm animal food and waste products.

"E. coli O104:H21 was discovered in 1982, when it caused an outbreak
of severe bloody diarrhea. It had infected hamburgers, and those
affected had eaten these hamburgers not fully-cooked.[2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escherichia_coli_O104:H21

Doug.

On Sun, 5 Jun 2011 10:37:27 -0700 (PDT), Simon Mason
wrote:

On Jun 5, 6:22*pm, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:

This outbreak has a very low incidence of infecting young children. That
would be unusual if it were due to infected meat, but, as they do not
normally form a significant part of the diet of young children, it is
consistent with the source being fresh vegetables.

Colin Bignell

German beansprouts were the culprit. I've been eating them every day
on holiday.
In fact, here's our dinner in Heidelberg last Wednesday.

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4587/jun013.jpg


Who is the fat ******* - you or the wife?

--
Simple Simon Mason - who cycles at 25mph in 20mph limits just because the limits do not apply to cyclists.
This includes exceeding the speed limit past three schools. A total disregard for the well-being of vulnerable road users.
The actions of a true psycholist.

On Jun 7, 5:33*am, Doug wrote:
On Jun 5, 6:37*pm, Simon Mason wrote:



On Jun 5, 6:22*pm, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:

This outbreak has a very low incidence of infecting young children. That
would be unusual if it were due to infected meat, but, as they do not
normally form a significant part of the diet of young children, it is
consistent with the source being fresh vegetables.

Colin Bignell

German beansprouts were the culprit. I've been eating them every day
on holiday.
In fact, here's our dinner in Heidelberg last Wednesday.

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4587/jun013.jpg

No it seems beansprouts have been exonerated.

As we were then.

--
Simon Mason

Doug wrote:
On Jun 5, 6:37 pm, Simon Mason wrote:
On Jun 5, 6:22 pm, "Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:

This outbreak has a very low incidence of infecting young children.
That would be unusual if it were due to infected meat, but, as they
do not normally form a significant part of the diet of young
children, it is consistent with the source being fresh vegetables.

Colin Bignell

German beansprouts were the culprit. I've been eating them every day
on holiday.
In fact, here's our dinner in Heidelberg last Wednesday.

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4587/jun013.jpg

No it seems beansprouts have been exonerated. The main sources of e-
coli are farm animal food and waste products.

"E. coli O104:H21 was discovered in 1982, when it caused an outbreak
of severe bloody diarrhea. It had infected hamburgers, and those
affected had eaten these hamburgers not fully-cooked.[2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escherichia_coli_O104:H21

Well, jolly good for H21.

Why didn't you quote the following bit that says:

"An outbreak of E. coli responsible for at least 22 deaths in Northern
Europe in May of 2011 was reported to be caused by _another_ O104 strain,
Escherichia coli O104:H4"? There's a separate, surely more relevant
Wikipedia page about that.

The H4 strain of E. coli undoubtedly originated in animals, quite possibly
humans. No-one denies that. But vegetables still remain the prime suspects
as carriers.

Do please tell us then why the Precautionary Principle, which you and your
friends are so keen on promoting when it suits you, shouldn't apply here.
Surely all vegetables should be immediately taken off the market throughout
Europe until long term trials can show that they're completely safe?

How many more deaths do vulnerable food users have to suffer as a result of
doing nothing in this regard?

On 07/06/2011 05:33, Doug wrote:
On Jun 5, 6:37 pm, Simon wrote:
On Jun 5, 6:22 pm, "Nightjar\"cpb\"@""insertmysurnamehere wrote:



This outbreak has a very low incidence of infecting young children. That
would be unusual if it were due to infected meat, but, as they do not
normally form a significant part of the diet of young children, it is
consistent with the source being fresh vegetables.

Colin Bignell

German beansprouts were the culprit. I've been eating them every day
on holiday.
In fact, here's our dinner in Heidelberg last Wednesday.

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4587/jun013.jpg

No it seems beansprouts have been exonerated. The main sources of e-
coli are farm animal food and waste products.

As I pointed out, if the source were meat, it would be expected to have
infected more children than it has. Any food source may be infected by
contact with a human carrier who does not practice good food hygiene.

"E. coli O104:H21 was discovered in 1982, when it caused an outbreak
of severe bloody diarrhea. It had infected hamburgers, and those
affected had eaten these hamburgers not fully-cooked.[2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escherichia_coli_O104:H21

According to the World Health Organisation, bean sprouts are a specific
hazard, even if this particular producer has been cleared:

'In recent years, the popularity of sprouted seeds has increased
significantly owing to their nutritional value. However, reports of
foodborne outbreaks associated with such raw vegetable sprouts have
raised concerns among public health agencies and consumers. Outbreak
investigations have indicated that pathogens found on sprouts most
likely originate from the seeds. The seed may be contaminated in the
field or during harvesting, storage or transportation. During the
germination process in sprout production, low levels of pathogens
present on seeds may quickly reach levels high enough to cause disease.'

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs125/en/

Colin Bignell