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Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
On Jul 17, 9:52 am, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article , JNugent wrote: KingOfTheApes wrote: Let's see what happened in the jungle today... Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work Wednesday, July 16, 2008 FoxNews A cancer survivor bicycling to work for the first time to save on gas was shot and killed, according to Toledo police. Police Capt. Ray Carroll said 46-year-old David Babcock was seen on a street having a heated argument with another man before he was shot around 5:30 a.m. Tuesday. "(There were) two people arguing, yelling at each other, then the gun shots went off," said Carroll. "We were given just a vague description (of the suspect)." Babcock was pronounced dead at an area hospital. The coroner said Babcock took a bullet to the face that caused massive bleeding and hampered his breathing. "Hampered his breathing"? To say the least, clearly. Witnesses told police they saw a suspect run down a street in the mostly residential neighborhood. "Run down the street"... Not, you motice: "drove away down the street" (see below). The shooter took a ring of keys from Babcock, according to MYFOX Toledo. No arrests have been made. Authorities don't know the motive for the shooting. Babcock survived surgery to remove a brain tumor 13 years ago. His fiancée, Rene Long, said he had put lights on his bike and wore a reflective vest so he would be safe on his inaugural, 8-mile ride to his job at Fresh Products Inc., a maker of air fresheners. "I was so proud of him. He couldn't wait to ride it to work. That was his first day of riding it to work," Long said. Are we drawing any lessons from this? I'd draw this lesson, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE PATIENCE OF BUDDHA AND THE GUN OF JOHN WAYNE, STAY HOME. I've got neither. These are points to bear in mind... Too many guns out there. That's there. Not here (though there may well be too many here as well). Too much road rage. Too little respect for cyclists. Too many reckless drivers. Too many indifferent policemen, authorities, etc. There might be (in both countries), but there's nowt above to lead you to that view - you'd have to arrive at it independently of the report of the instant case. Indeed. We all read these things through the filters of our assumptions and prejudices. One could as easily come to alternate conclusions if starting from a different world view. A local conceal-and-carry advocate would probably say that if everybody carried guns, everyone would be more considerate and polite to each other and there'd be fewer such incidents. Do you disagree with such a theory? I personally think Mr. Heinlein had a fair point. It's part of what's called self-serving bias and it's part of human nature. We interpret events to favor our preexisting beliefs. Was there any evidence at all that the incident had anything to do with bikes, road rage, cars or indifferent policemen? How do we know that the assailant wasn't just, for instance, a cuckolded husband? Statistically speaking, most murderers are people who know the victim well or at least have some personal connection. Truly random murders are fairly rare. Agreed, but a big part of the non-personal attacks are muggings. I think that "thugs" would be less likely to be pulling guns on strangers a larger portion of the population was known to be carrying weapons themselves. |
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#12
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Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:28:24 -0700, KingOfTheApes wrote:
Witnesses told police they saw a suspect run down a street in the mostly residential neighborhood. The shooter took a ring of keys from Babcock, according to MYFOX Toledo. Judging from these two lines, this looks a LOT more like robbery than road rage. |
#13
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Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
On Jul 17, 10:29*am, " wrote:
Statistically speaking, most murderers are people who know the victim well or at least have some personal connection. *Truly random murders are fairly rare. Agreed, but a big part of the non-personal attacks are muggings. *I think that "thugs" would be less likely to be pulling guns on strangers a larger portion of the population was known to be carrying weapons themselves.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Carrying a concealed weapon is not easy to do for a cyclist, and then drawing first would be even more difficult. Cagers already have a weapon in their hand: their vehicle. |
#14
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Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
On Jul 17, 11:30*am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:28:24 -0700, KingOfTheApes wrote: Witnesses told police they saw a suspect run down a street in the mostly residential neighborhood. The shooter took a ring of keys from Babcock, according to MYFOX Toledo. Judging from these two lines, this looks a LOT more like robbery than road rage. * The dangers on the road come in many ways. Anyone can get behind the wheel and get away with light sentences when they kill innocents. But if these predators were riding bikes instead of cars, they wouldn't be as dangerous. Once again, my intention is NOT to keep cyclists from the roads, but to change the laws --or lack of laws-- that make cycling unnecessarily dangerous. In the UK at least you've got better traffic laws if not better bike facilities. Woman pleads guilty after killing cyclist with her car UTICA, N.Y. (AP) - A 23-year-old Utica woman pleaded guilty to striking and killing a bicyclist with her car in September. Jodi Marris pleaded guilty yesterday to second-degree vehicular manslaughter and driving under the influence of drugs in the death of 48-year-old Peter Zacek Junior. She admitted she'd mixed prescription medication and marijuana before the crash. Marris says she was returning from visiting her boyfriend in the Lewis County Jail when she noticed her driving beginning to swerve. She continued to drive until she struck Zacek as he rode his bike along the highway. She says she never saw him until after she hit him. She faces no more than two to six years in prison when she's sentenced in September. http://www.fox44.net/Global/story.as...&nav=menu660_1 |
#15
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Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
On Jul 17, 2:47*pm, KingOfTheApes wrote:
On Jul 17, 10:29*am, " wrote: Statistically speaking, most murderers are people who know the victim well or at least have some personal connection. *Truly random murders are fairly rare. Agreed, but a big part of the non-personal attacks are muggings. *I think that "thugs" would be less likely to be pulling guns on strangers a larger portion of the population was known to be carrying weapons themselves.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Carrying a concealed weapon is not easy to do for a cyclist, and then drawing first would be even more difficult. Cagers already have a weapon in their hand: their vehicle. 1) Carrying concealed on a bicycle is easy, unless you're insistent on skin-tight clothing. A baggy shirt and a good holster accomplishes wonders. 2) The situation in question here involved the cyclist stopped, arguing with a man on foot and getting shot & robbed. Not really relative to car vs. gun combat. |
#16
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Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:28:24 -0700 (PDT), KingOfTheApes
wrote: Let's see what happened in the jungle today... Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work Wednesday, July 16, 2008 FoxNews If he was on a mountain bike Mike Vandeman would be celebrating. -- jeverett3ATsbcglobalDOTnet (John V. Everett) |
#17
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Take meditation or take a gun
On Jul 17, 3:53*pm, " wrote:
Carrying a concealed weapon is not easy to do for a cyclist, and then drawing first would be even more difficult. Cagers already have a weapon in their hand: their vehicle. 1) Carrying concealed on a bicycle is easy, unless you're insistent on skin-tight clothing. *A baggy shirt and a good holster accomplishes wonders. 2) The situation in question here involved the cyclist stopped, arguing with a man on foot and getting shot & robbed. *Not really relative to car vs. gun combat.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I've thought we didn't know that. Anyway *I* had an incident that would have called for a gun if I had one, or for law and order on our roads... I was riding causeway "X" with my girlfriend, taking the lane, two lanes in each direction, nearly no traffic, signs say bikes must be walked along bridges' sidewalks, 3 bridges ranging from 200 to 900 feet... First incident: Policeman waves me off the road (indifference)... Second incident, down the road, no bridge: Guy in SUV blasts the horn (road rage), I have second thoughts about taking the lane... Third incident, riding against the curb, back on the bridge: Yet another guy in SUV insistently blows the horn (without me knowing what it means), I give him the finger, and he stops (road rage escalation). He threatens to get off the car (he's much stronger than me, plus he's in a 3 ton vehicle), and I try to get out of the situation. He says he was trying to help me (he's playing vigilante) by having me safely walk the bike on the sidewalk. We argue, he spits at my face and takes off. Luckily no guns on either side. I don't react to get his license plate, and wouldn't have made a difference anyway. I never go for the puppet, but for the puppeteer... Now suppose I had a gun: What should I have done? Isn't it better that they built more bike facilities, and taught drivers to respect cyclists? There was a policeman with the speed gun nearby (collection time). I bet if they sent undercover policemen on bikes, the way policewomen do hookers, none of that would have happened, or at least it would be a step in the right direction, right? But they argue there's no funds for that... I went back to this bridge a few days ago and the sidewalk is so narrow that is completely unrideable, and perhaps even unwalkable with a bike. One step wrong and you fall into traffic. The police set up these signs for no good reason, and any vigilante out there can feel the need to fill the void. Never again back on that causeway which is one major way to get to stores as well as parks with my bike. Now I just drive or avoid the area altogether. And other major roads are closed for me as well due to heavy (and chaotic) traffic. Only law out there is the Law of the Jungle. Take meditation or take a gun. Or go on the Internet and make a lot of noise about it. That's the best weapon the monkey's got --besides the banana. WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION? http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution |
#18
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Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
Tim McNamara wrote:
... Statistically speaking, most murderers are people who know the victim well or at least have some personal connection. Truly random murders are fairly rare. No, random murders are by far the most common. However, the murderers prefer the term "collateral damage" to murder. -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia "People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon. |
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Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
On Jul 17, 7:58 pm, Tom Sherman
wrote: catzz66 wrote: This is an exception, but I have generally decided not to reply to this guy's threads. What possible good could come from cross posting to rec.bicycles.misc, alt.planning.urban, rec.bicycles.soc, rec.bicycles.rides, uk.rec.cycling? CROSS-POSTED FLAME WAR!!! If you find a pile of cow manure by the side of the road and stir it up, you still just have a stirred up pile of cow manure. But the smell will be greater if the crust of the cow "pie" is broken to reveal the soft, steaming interior. Cow **** is better than bull ****. (I'm working on a quotation book) |
#20
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Ohio Cancer Survivor Shot and Killed Bicycling to Work
On Jul 17, 7:54*pm, Tom Sherman
wrote: Tim McNamara wrote: ... Statistically speaking, most murderers are people who know the victim well or at least have some personal connection. *Truly random murders are fairly rare. No, random murders are by far the most common. However, the murderers prefer the term "collateral damage" to murder. They also prefer the term "liberation" instead of "invasion"... Orwell called it "newspeak," right? |
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