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#11
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New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA
On 6/30/2020 10:08 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, 30 June 2020 17:43:27 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/30/2020 12:25 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: I've been told in this very newsgroup that lumens are not important and that beam pattern is what determines quality. Not by me, you haven't. Obviously, if the lumen output is too low even the best beam pattern won't work. You can test that with a good German headlight and a dead battery. What is true is that most bike lights in America use beam patterns as primitive as a stone axe. And many try to make up for that by blasting out insane numbers of lumens. Those may be OK for mountain biking, but they're inefficient and sometimes abusive to others on roads or MUPs. Even 60 lumens, properly focused, gives a luxurious amount of light for almost all bicycle riding conditions. There's no real reason for hundreds and hundreds of lumens in an on-road bike light. -- - Frank Krygowski There is if if you are riding a dark country road at night and want to see critters a fair distance away so that you don't startle them. Sixty lumens is nowhere near enough light for the roads I ride around here at night. I want to see the skunks before I startle them. A friend and I had a skunk experience several months ago. This is the guy (a naturalist) who likes to ride a quiet and very dark local MUP on nights near the full moon. We were riding when we saw something white that appeared to be fluttering along maybe a foot above the trail. We slowed down as we tried to figure out what it was. A big low-flying moth? But as we got closer we saw it was a skunk. We slowed down to skunk speed for maybe 20 yards until it turned left and headed into the woods. As usual, your needs/wants vary from a lot of others. I'm sure that's true. I'm also sure my needs jibe nicely with those of millions of other cyclists. Somehow, people rode bikes at night for generations before multi-hundred lumen headlights appeared. The B&M dyno lights I use are far better than what many Paris-Brest-Paris competitors used just 15 years ago. I'm not saying they're ideal for off-road use. But I love these things for normal road riding. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#12
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New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA
On 6/30/2020 9:10 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
snip You can buy the dummy batteries to use with the 14500 cells and use one 14500 and two dummies (and in many cases one 14500 and one dummy). https://www.ebay.com/itm/133434659198 Ummm... did you read the fine print? Yes. Can only be used with lithium iron phosphate battery and lithium battery. How to use: If your product uses 2 AA batteries, you can use one rechargeable 3V battery plus one fake battery to replace 2 AA batteries. This dummy battery won't work with ordinarily Li-Ion cells. Of course it will work. They say that because Lithium-Ion Phosphate batteries and Lithium batteries have a nominal voltage of 3.2V and since 3.2V/2=1.6V that's about the same as a standard AA cell (1.2V for NiMH and 1.6V for lithium─I also read about something called a NiCad battery in my history book which was 1.2V as well, but I'm too young to remember NiCad batteries). That's where the 2:1 ratio comes from. But you could certainly use two dummy batteries and a 3.6V Li-Ion battery to replace three 1.2V-1.6V AA cells. And of course that's what the flashlights that can use one Li-Ion battery or three AA or AAA cells are essentially doing. And even using one 3.6V Li-Ion cell in place of two 1.2-1.6V AA cells would work fine in many devices where the voltage has a pretty wide range and the device has a switching regulator inside. My guess(tm) is that the Amazon flashlight in question actually uses three AAA cells. It comes with a 3AA adapter and an 18650 spacer. Did you order one to see what arrives? Yes. Or, did you email the vendor and ask what size cell fits in the 3 cell adapter? I'm too lazy to do so, but maybe you could spare a few dollars and an email to backup your claims? Yes, I have one. I use a bracket on one bicycle that holds that size light. It came with a 3AA holder and an 18650 spacer. I stuck in a 26650 battery of questionable capacity. snip Nice of you to snip my section on trying to cram three AA cells, with a total OD of about 32 mm Wrong. into a flashlight which has an OD of 30 mm and a probable ID of 28 mm. Wrong. That's not going to fit, not matter how you inflate or deflate the numbers. Wrong. Do you still believe he's supplying a 3xAA adapter? I hope not. I believe it because it's true! The diameter of the 3xAA adapter is 30mm. It's the same diameter as this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VSQSGG8. The diameter of the 18650 spacer is 30mm. The inner diameter of the flashlight is 30mm. The only issue is that the 26650 has a diameter of 26mm; it doesn't require a spacer to work, but I used one anyway, to prevent any rattling. Not sure why you believe that 3AA batteries in a cylindrical holder have an outer diameter of 32mm. Think about the diameter of an AA cell or 14500 cell. It's 14mm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA_battery#. 2x14mm=28mm. The cells nest directly against each other in the holder. There is no extra plastic on the outer diameter of the holder. In fact, they could have made it 1mm narrower but they probably wanted to allow some wiggle room for cells that are slightly larger diameter. As an aside, I once had a Duracell 3C LED flashlight purchased at Costco. I put in three 1.2V NiMH C cells and it instantly burned out the LED. They must have been depending on the high internal resistance of the included Duracell zinc-manganese ("alkaline") batteries to regulate the current to the LED. So it's not just the voltage you have to worry about sometimes. |
#13
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New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA
On 7/1/2020 8:41 AM, sms wrote:
snip Of course it will work. They say that because Lithium-Ion Phosphate batteries and Lithium batteries have a nominal voltage of 3.2V and since 3.2V/2=1.6V that's about the same as a standard AA cell (1.2V for NiMH and 1.6V for lithium─I also read about something called a NiCad battery in my history book which was 1.2V as well, but I'm too young to remember NiCad batteries). That's where the 2:1 ratio comes from. Oops, 1:1 ratio. (3.2V + 0V)/2=1.6V But you could certainly use two dummy batteries and a 3.6V Li-Ion battery to replace three 1.2V-1.6V AA cells. And of course that's what the flashlights that can use one Li-Ion battery or three AA or AAA cells are essentially doing. And even using one 3.6V Li-Ion cell in place of two 1.2-1.6V AA cells would work fine in many devices where the voltage has a pretty wide range and the device has a switching regulator inside. 2:1 ratio. (3.6V + 0V + 0V)/2=1.2V |
#14
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New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 4:27:57 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 7/1/2020 8:41 AM, sms wrote: snip Of course it will work. They say that because Lithium-Ion Phosphate batteries and Lithium batteries have a nominal voltage of 3.2V and since 3.2V/2=1.6V that's about the same as a standard AA cell (1.2V for NiMH and 1.6V for lithium─I also read about something called a NiCad battery in my history book which was 1.2V as well, but I'm too young to remember NiCad batteries). That's where the 2:1 ratio comes from. Oops, 1:1 ratio. (3.2V + 0V)/2=1.6V But you could certainly use two dummy batteries and a 3.6V Li-Ion battery to replace three 1.2V-1.6V AA cells. And of course that's what the flashlights that can use one Li-Ion battery or three AA or AAA cells are essentially doing. And even using one 3.6V Li-Ion cell in place of two 1.2-1.6V AA cells would work fine in many devices where the voltage has a pretty wide range and the device has a switching regulator inside.. 2:1 ratio. (3.6V + 0V + 0V)/2=1.2V My Oculus optics are among the most "lumen efficient" when talking about beam patterns, and usefulness of lower lumen levels if projected well. Or just trolling for me to say something, never know with your comments(-: One little scam that bike light lumen ratings use to cheat their ratings, is to only measure for 30 seconds. So lights that cook the LED for 30 seconds before a thermal dimmer kicks in, can measure more than twice, sometimes five times, what the LED can sustain after the first 30 seconds. Bike light makers still claim total lumens despite splattering glare all over the place with an overbearing bright round spot in the middle. Much of the claimed lumens is wasted, too dim on the edges, too bright in the center, for the eyes to deal with effectively. If you took the "Beam Lumens" and "Field Lumens" https://www.ledtronics.com/TechNotes...tes.aspx?id=13 of any of these cheapo, and many not so cheap (including L&M and Night Rider), lights, you would find that an Oculus outputs many higher Beam Lumens and Field Lumens than other lights with the same claimed overall lumens. The Oculus beam accomplishes this by spreading what would be a hot bright spot in the middle, while harvesting what would be glare around the edges back into the sides of the main beam. While LEDs are rated at 85C, and most bike lights let the unit cook close to that temperature with ambient air passing over, Oculus cools down to ~45C when in motion 6MPH, with about 15% greater brightness than rated LED output. The lowest settings on the Oculus lights are either 30 or 70 lumens, with burn times exceeding 24 hours. At the 24 Hour World TT Championships, winners averaging 20mph have used a 375+ lumen level, with 6+ hours burn time. Barry |
#15
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New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA
On 7/1/2020 5:54 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:
snip My Oculus optics are among the most "lumen efficient" when talking about beam patterns, and usefulness of lower lumen levels if projected well. Or just trolling for me to say something, never know with your comments(-: Barry: No one is claiming that an IFL (Inexpensive Flashlight) is as good as a bike-specific light, but it needs to be understood that getting people to spend even $50 on a bicycle light, let alone $150-300, is difficult. You might get them to spend $15-25 though. And they may not need a 1500 lumen light──1000, or even 500 lumens may be fine. Some people are so fixated on raw lumens that they forget to actually look at how well a actually light actually works to see and be seen. A $150 light is probably not targeted to people that are riding a $100-300 bicycle around town. The Oculus was an excellent light. Not outrageously priced and the 26650 user-replaceable battery was a good choice. The plastic enclosure meant lighter weight when most higher-end lights use an aluminum enclosure that also serves as a heat sink. I recommended your light to several people. But for someone that doesn't want to spend a lot of money, a flashlight using three NiMH cells, one 18650, or one 26650, is an adequate light for $20-30. I've had an Ultrafire SH-3AA https://www.amazon.in/dp/B00TS7JG92 (245 lumens, 3AA or one 26650) on one of my bicycles for many years). I can go into a store and not worry about an inexpensive light being stolen so I don't have to start removing bits and pieces from the bicycle. |
#16
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New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA
On 7/3/2020 6:33 PM, sms wrote:
Barry: No one is claiming that an IFL (Inexpensive Flashlight) is as good as a bike-specific light... Hooray! We've achieved progress! -- - Frank Krygowski |
#17
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New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA
Am 04.07.2020 um 00:33 schrieb sms:
On 7/1/2020 5:54 PM, Oculus Lights wrote: snip My Oculus optics are among the most "lumen efficient" when talking about beam patterns, and usefulness of lower lumen levels if projected well.Â* Or just trolling for me to say something, never know with your comments(-: Barry: No one is claiming that an IFL (Inexpensive Flashlight) is as good as a bike-specific light, but it needs to be understood that getting people to spend even $50 on a bicycle light, let alone $150-300, is difficult. You might get them to spend $15-25 though. So why not offer them a $15 bicycle light, like https://www.lidl.de/de/crivit-led-fahrradbeleuchtung-2-teilig-batteriebetrieben-fuer-alle-gaengigen-fahrradtypen? If you'd talked about a $2 flashlight, I might just about have been able to follow your arguments. |
#18
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New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA
On 7/5/2020 2:20 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
snip So why not offer them a $15 bicycle light, like https://www.lidl.de/de/crivit-led-fahrradbeleuchtung-2-teilig-batteriebetrieben-fuer-alle-gaengigen-fahrradtypen? That link doesn't work, at least from the U.S.. Try https://www.lidl.de/de/search?query=fahrradbeleuchtung instead. Love going to LIDL when I'm in Germany. Just add in the cost of the plane ticket. And beware of unknown strange holidays when the stores are all closed. Those lights are good "being seen" lights, but they are much lower power than the $15 light I referred to. Also, none of them have a DRL flash mode, presumably because they are StVZO certified. StVZO certification also means that the beam pattern is less than optimal for cyclists (though apparently better for motorists). From the Urban Dictionary https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stvzo: stvzo German bicycle lighting standard written by non-cyclists designed to force cyclists to subject themselves to increased danger by requiring the use of sub-optimal bicycle lighting systems. "Dude, your lights suck, no one can see you coming and you just ran into a low hanging tree branch." "Sorry, I have decided to comply with the StVZO standard which is much more important than seeing or being seen." "Dude, dump the StVZO lights and buy a good light." "Never, the German way is the only way." [disclaimer: that entry into the Urban Dictionary was written by me in 2013] |
#19
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New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA
sms wrote:
On 7/5/2020 2:20 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote: snip So why not offer them a $15 bicycle light, like https://www.lidl.de/de/crivit-led-fahrradbeleuchtung-2-teilig-batteriebetrieben-fuer-alle-gaengigen-fahrradtypen? That link doesn't work, at least from the U.S.. Try https://www.lidl.de/de/search?query=fahrradbeleuchtung instead. Love going to LIDL when I'm in Germany. Just add in the cost of the plane ticket. And beware of unknown strange holidays when the stores are all closed. Those lights are good "being seen" lights, but they are much lower power than the $15 light I referred to. Also, none of them have a DRL flash mode, presumably because they are StVZO certified. StVZO certification also means that the beam pattern is less than optimal for cyclists (though apparently better for motorists). From the Urban Dictionary https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stvzo: stvzo German bicycle lighting standard written by non-cyclists designed to force cyclists to subject themselves to increased danger by requiring the use of sub-optimal bicycle lighting systems. "Dude, your lights suck, no one can see you coming and you just ran into a low hanging tree branch." "Sorry, I have decided to comply with the StVZO standard which is much more important than seeing or being seen." "Dude, dump the StVZO lights and buy a good light." "Never, the German way is the only way." [disclaimer: that entry into the Urban Dictionary was written by me in 2013] Gee, Steven. You wrote that? No ****? I never would have guessed. |
#20
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New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA
On 7/5/2020 1:14 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
sms wrote: On 7/5/2020 2:20 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote: snip So why not offer them a $15 bicycle light, like https://www.lidl.de/de/crivit-led-fahrradbeleuchtung-2-teilig-batteriebetrieben-fuer-alle-gaengigen-fahrradtypen? That link doesn't work, at least from the U.S.. Try https://www.lidl.de/de/search?query=fahrradbeleuchtung instead. Love going to LIDL when I'm in Germany. Just add in the cost of the plane ticket. And beware of unknown strange holidays when the stores are all closed. Those lights are good "being seen" lights, but they are much lower power than the $15 light I referred to. Also, none of them have a DRL flash mode, presumably because they are StVZO certified. StVZO certification also means that the beam pattern is less than optimal for cyclists (though apparently better for motorists). From the Urban Dictionary https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stvzo: stvzo German bicycle lighting standard written by non-cyclists designed to force cyclists to subject themselves to increased danger by requiring the use of sub-optimal bicycle lighting systems. "Dude, your lights suck, no one can see you coming and you just ran into a low hanging tree branch." "Sorry, I have decided to comply with the StVZO standard which is much more important than seeing or being seen." "Dude, dump the StVZO lights and buy a good light." "Never, the German way is the only way." [disclaimer: that entry into the Urban Dictionary was written by me in 2013] Gee, Steven. You wrote that? No ****? I never would have guessed. And nobody would be dumb enough to run into a low hanging tree branch while riding on a road. Get real. If a town has such tree branches, the town mayor should be hung from one. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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