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New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 1st 20, 04:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA

On 6/30/2020 10:08 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, 30 June 2020 17:43:27 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/30/2020 12:25 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I've been told in this very newsgroup that lumens are
not important and that beam pattern is what determines quality.


Not by me, you haven't. Obviously, if the lumen output is too low even
the best beam pattern won't work. You can test that with a good German
headlight and a dead battery.

What is true is that most bike lights in America use beam patterns as
primitive as a stone axe. And many try to make up for that by blasting
out insane numbers of lumens. Those may be OK for mountain biking, but
they're inefficient and sometimes abusive to others on roads or MUPs.

Even 60 lumens, properly focused, gives a luxurious amount of light for
almost all bicycle riding conditions. There's no real reason for
hundreds and hundreds of lumens in an on-road bike light.

--
- Frank Krygowski


There is if if you are riding a dark country road at night and want to see critters a fair distance away so that you don't startle them. Sixty lumens is nowhere near enough light for the roads I ride around here at night. I want to see the skunks before I startle them.


A friend and I had a skunk experience several months ago. This is the
guy (a naturalist) who likes to ride a quiet and very dark local MUP on
nights near the full moon.

We were riding when we saw something white that appeared to be
fluttering along maybe a foot above the trail. We slowed down as we
tried to figure out what it was. A big low-flying moth? But as we got
closer we saw it was a skunk.

We slowed down to skunk speed for maybe 20 yards until it turned left
and headed into the woods.

As usual, your needs/wants vary from a lot of others.


I'm sure that's true. I'm also sure my needs jibe nicely with those of
millions of other cyclists. Somehow, people rode bikes at night for
generations before multi-hundred lumen headlights appeared. The B&M dyno
lights I use are far better than what many Paris-Brest-Paris competitors
used just 15 years ago.

I'm not saying they're ideal for off-road use. But I love these things
for normal road riding.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #12  
Old July 1st 20, 04:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA

On 6/30/2020 9:10 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

You can buy the dummy batteries to use with the 14500 cells and use one
14500 and two dummies (and in many cases one 14500 and one dummy).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133434659198


Ummm... did you read the fine print?


Yes.

Can only be used with lithium iron phosphate battery
and lithium battery.
How to use: If your product uses 2 AA batteries, you
can use one rechargeable 3V battery plus one fake
battery to replace 2 AA batteries.
This dummy battery won't work with ordinarily Li-Ion cells.


Of course it will work. They say that because Lithium-Ion Phosphate
batteries and Lithium batteries have a nominal voltage of 3.2V and since
3.2V/2=1.6V that's about the same as a standard AA cell (1.2V for NiMH
and 1.6V for lithium─I also read about something called a NiCad battery
in my history book which was 1.2V as well, but I'm too young to remember
NiCad batteries). That's where the 2:1 ratio comes from.

But you could certainly use two dummy batteries and a 3.6V Li-Ion
battery to replace three 1.2V-1.6V AA cells. And of course that's what
the flashlights that can use one Li-Ion battery or three AA or AAA cells
are essentially doing. And even using one 3.6V Li-Ion cell in place of
two 1.2-1.6V AA cells would work fine in many devices where the voltage
has a pretty wide range and the device has a switching regulator inside.

My guess(tm) is that the Amazon flashlight in question actually uses
three AAA cells.


It comes with a 3AA adapter and an 18650 spacer.


Did you order one to see what arrives?


Yes.

Or, did you email the vendor
and ask what size cell fits in the 3 cell adapter? I'm too lazy to do
so, but maybe you could spare a few dollars and an email to backup
your claims?


Yes, I have one. I use a bracket on one bicycle that holds that size
light. It came with a 3AA holder and an 18650 spacer. I stuck in a 26650
battery of questionable capacity.

snip

Nice of you to snip my section on trying to cram three AA cells, with
a total OD of about 32 mm


Wrong.

into a flashlight which has an OD of 30 mm and a probable ID of 28 mm.


Wrong.

That's not going to fit, not matter how you inflate or deflate the numbers.


Wrong.

Do you still believe he's supplying a 3xAA adapter? I hope not.


I believe it because it's true! The diameter of the 3xAA adapter is
30mm. It's the same diameter as this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VSQSGG8. The diameter of the 18650 spacer
is 30mm. The inner diameter of the flashlight is 30mm. The only issue is
that the 26650 has a diameter of 26mm; it doesn't require a spacer to
work, but I used one anyway, to prevent any rattling.

Not sure why you believe that 3AA batteries in a cylindrical holder have
an outer diameter of 32mm. Think about the diameter of an AA cell or
14500 cell. It's 14mm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA_battery#.
2x14mm=28mm. The cells nest directly against each other in the holder.
There is no extra plastic on the outer diameter of the holder. In fact,
they could have made it 1mm narrower but they probably wanted to allow
some wiggle room for cells that are slightly larger diameter.

As an aside, I once had a Duracell 3C LED flashlight purchased at
Costco. I put in three 1.2V NiMH C cells and it instantly burned out the
LED. They must have been depending on the high internal resistance of
the included Duracell zinc-manganese ("alkaline") batteries to regulate
the current to the LED. So it's not just the voltage you have to worry
about sometimes.

  #13  
Old July 2nd 20, 12:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA

On 7/1/2020 8:41 AM, sms wrote:

snip

Of course it will work. They say that because Lithium-Ion Phosphate
batteries and Lithium batteries have a nominal voltage of 3.2V and since
3.2V/2=1.6V that's about the same as a standard AA cell (1.2V for NiMH
and 1.6V for lithium─I also read about something called a NiCad battery
in my history book which was 1.2V as well, but I'm too young to remember
NiCad batteries). That's where the 2:1 ratio comes from.


Oops, 1:1 ratio. (3.2V + 0V)/2=1.6V

But you could certainly use two dummy batteries and a 3.6V Li-Ion
battery to replace three 1.2V-1.6V AA cells. And of course that's what
the flashlights that can use one Li-Ion battery or three AA or AAA cells
are essentially doing. And even using one 3.6V Li-Ion cell in place of
two 1.2-1.6V AA cells would work fine in many devices where the voltage
has a pretty wide range and the device has a switching regulator inside.


2:1 ratio. (3.6V + 0V + 0V)/2=1.2V
  #14  
Old July 2nd 20, 01:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Oculus Lights
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Posts: 34
Default New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA

On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 4:27:57 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 7/1/2020 8:41 AM, sms wrote:

snip

Of course it will work. They say that because Lithium-Ion Phosphate
batteries and Lithium batteries have a nominal voltage of 3.2V and since
3.2V/2=1.6V that's about the same as a standard AA cell (1.2V for NiMH
and 1.6V for lithium─I also read about something called a NiCad battery
in my history book which was 1.2V as well, but I'm too young to remember
NiCad batteries). That's where the 2:1 ratio comes from.


Oops, 1:1 ratio. (3.2V + 0V)/2=1.6V

But you could certainly use two dummy batteries and a 3.6V Li-Ion
battery to replace three 1.2V-1.6V AA cells. And of course that's what
the flashlights that can use one Li-Ion battery or three AA or AAA cells
are essentially doing. And even using one 3.6V Li-Ion cell in place of
two 1.2-1.6V AA cells would work fine in many devices where the voltage
has a pretty wide range and the device has a switching regulator inside..


2:1 ratio. (3.6V + 0V + 0V)/2=1.2V


My Oculus optics are among the most "lumen efficient" when talking about beam patterns, and usefulness of lower lumen levels if projected well. Or just trolling for me to say something, never know with your comments(-:
One little scam that bike light lumen ratings use to cheat their ratings, is to only measure for 30 seconds. So lights that cook the LED for 30 seconds before a thermal dimmer kicks in, can measure more than twice, sometimes five times, what the LED can sustain after the first 30 seconds.
Bike light makers still claim total lumens despite splattering glare all over the place with an overbearing bright round spot in the middle. Much of the claimed lumens is wasted, too dim on the edges, too bright in the center, for the eyes to deal with effectively.
If you took the "Beam Lumens" and "Field Lumens"
https://www.ledtronics.com/TechNotes...tes.aspx?id=13
of any of these cheapo, and many not so cheap (including L&M and Night Rider), lights, you would find that an Oculus outputs many higher Beam Lumens and Field Lumens than other lights with the same claimed overall lumens.
The Oculus beam accomplishes this by spreading what would be a hot bright spot in the middle, while harvesting what would be glare around the edges back into the sides of the main beam.
While LEDs are rated at 85C, and most bike lights let the unit cook close to that temperature with ambient air passing over, Oculus cools down to ~45C when in motion 6MPH, with about 15% greater brightness than rated LED output.
The lowest settings on the Oculus lights are either 30 or 70 lumens, with burn times exceeding 24 hours. At the 24 Hour World TT Championships, winners averaging 20mph have used a 375+ lumen level, with 6+ hours burn time.
Barry
  #15  
Old July 3rd 20, 11:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA

On 7/1/2020 5:54 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:

snip

My Oculus optics are among the most "lumen efficient" when talking about beam patterns, and usefulness of lower lumen levels if projected well. Or just trolling for me to say something, never know with your comments(-:


Barry:

No one is claiming that an IFL (Inexpensive Flashlight) is as good as a
bike-specific light, but it needs to be understood that getting people
to spend even $50 on a bicycle light, let alone $150-300, is difficult.
You might get them to spend $15-25 though. And they may not need a 1500
lumen light──1000, or even 500 lumens may be fine. Some people are so
fixated on raw lumens that they forget to actually look at how well a
actually light actually works to see and be seen.

A $150 light is probably not targeted to people that are riding a
$100-300 bicycle around town. The Oculus was an excellent light. Not
outrageously priced and the 26650 user-replaceable battery was a good
choice. The plastic enclosure meant lighter weight when most higher-end
lights use an aluminum enclosure that also serves as a heat sink. I
recommended your light to several people.

But for someone that doesn't want to spend a lot of money, a flashlight
using three NiMH cells, one 18650, or one 26650, is an adequate light
for $20-30. I've had an Ultrafire SH-3AA
https://www.amazon.in/dp/B00TS7JG92 (245 lumens, 3AA or one 26650) on
one of my bicycles for many years). I can go into a store and not worry
about an inexpensive light being stolen so I don't have to start
removing bits and pieces from the bicycle.
  #16  
Old July 4th 20, 01:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA

On 7/3/2020 6:33 PM, sms wrote:

Barry:

No one is claiming that an IFL (Inexpensive Flashlight) is as good as a
bike-specific light...


Hooray! We've achieved progress!

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #17  
Old July 5th 20, 10:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
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Posts: 267
Default New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA

Am 04.07.2020 um 00:33 schrieb sms:
On 7/1/2020 5:54 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:

snip

My Oculus optics are among the most "lumen efficient" when talking
about beam patterns, and usefulness of lower lumen levels if projected
well.Â* Or just trolling for me to say something, never know with your
comments(-:


Barry:

No one is claiming that an IFL (Inexpensive Flashlight) is as good as a
bike-specific light, but it needs to be understood that getting people
to spend even $50 on a bicycle light, let alone $150-300, is difficult.
You might get them to spend $15-25 though.


So why not offer them a $15 bicycle light, like
https://www.lidl.de/de/crivit-led-fahrradbeleuchtung-2-teilig-batteriebetrieben-fuer-alle-gaengigen-fahrradtypen?

If you'd talked about a $2 flashlight, I might just about have been able
to follow your arguments.
  #18  
Old July 5th 20, 06:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA

On 7/5/2020 2:20 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:

snip

So why not offer them a $15 bicycle light, like
https://www.lidl.de/de/crivit-led-fahrradbeleuchtung-2-teilig-batteriebetrieben-fuer-alle-gaengigen-fahrradtypen?


That link doesn't work, at least from the U.S..

Try https://www.lidl.de/de/search?query=fahrradbeleuchtung instead.

Love going to LIDL when I'm in Germany. Just add in the cost of the
plane ticket. And beware of unknown strange holidays when the stores are
all closed.

Those lights are good "being seen" lights, but they are much lower power
than the $15 light I referred to. Also, none of them have a DRL flash
mode, presumably because they are StVZO certified. StVZO certification
also means that the beam pattern is less than optimal for cyclists
(though apparently better for motorists).

From the Urban Dictionary
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stvzo:

stvzo
German bicycle lighting standard written by non-cyclists designed to
force cyclists to subject themselves to increased danger by requiring
the use of sub-optimal bicycle lighting systems.

"Dude, your lights suck, no one can see you coming and you just ran into
a low hanging tree branch."

"Sorry, I have decided to comply with the StVZO standard which is much
more important than seeing or being seen."

"Dude, dump the StVZO lights and buy a good light."

"Never, the German way is the only way."

[disclaimer: that entry into the Urban Dictionary was written by me in 2013]

  #19  
Old July 5th 20, 06:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
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Posts: 853
Default New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA

sms wrote:
On 7/5/2020 2:20 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:

snip

So why not offer them a $15 bicycle light, like
https://www.lidl.de/de/crivit-led-fahrradbeleuchtung-2-teilig-batteriebetrieben-fuer-alle-gaengigen-fahrradtypen?


That link doesn't work, at least from the U.S..

Try https://www.lidl.de/de/search?query=fahrradbeleuchtung instead.

Love going to LIDL when I'm in Germany. Just add in the cost of the
plane ticket. And beware of unknown strange holidays when the stores are
all closed.

Those lights are good "being seen" lights, but they are much lower power
than the $15 light I referred to. Also, none of them have a DRL flash
mode, presumably because they are StVZO certified. StVZO certification
also means that the beam pattern is less than optimal for cyclists
(though apparently better for motorists).

From the Urban Dictionary
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stvzo:

stvzo
German bicycle lighting standard written by non-cyclists designed to
force cyclists to subject themselves to increased danger by requiring
the use of sub-optimal bicycle lighting systems.

"Dude, your lights suck, no one can see you coming and you just ran into
a low hanging tree branch."

"Sorry, I have decided to comply with the StVZO standard which is much
more important than seeing or being seen."

"Dude, dump the StVZO lights and buy a good light."

"Never, the German way is the only way."

[disclaimer: that entry into the Urban Dictionary was written by me in 2013]



Gee, Steven. You wrote that? No ****? I never would have guessed.

  #20  
Old July 5th 20, 06:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default New CCFL, 26650, 18650, or 3AA

On 7/5/2020 1:14 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
sms wrote:
On 7/5/2020 2:20 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:

snip

So why not offer them a $15 bicycle light, like
https://www.lidl.de/de/crivit-led-fahrradbeleuchtung-2-teilig-batteriebetrieben-fuer-alle-gaengigen-fahrradtypen?


That link doesn't work, at least from the U.S..

Try https://www.lidl.de/de/search?query=fahrradbeleuchtung instead.

Love going to LIDL when I'm in Germany. Just add in the cost of the
plane ticket. And beware of unknown strange holidays when the stores are
all closed.

Those lights are good "being seen" lights, but they are much lower power
than the $15 light I referred to. Also, none of them have a DRL flash
mode, presumably because they are StVZO certified. StVZO certification
also means that the beam pattern is less than optimal for cyclists
(though apparently better for motorists).

From the Urban Dictionary
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stvzo:

stvzo
German bicycle lighting standard written by non-cyclists designed to
force cyclists to subject themselves to increased danger by requiring
the use of sub-optimal bicycle lighting systems.

"Dude, your lights suck, no one can see you coming and you just ran into
a low hanging tree branch."

"Sorry, I have decided to comply with the StVZO standard which is much
more important than seeing or being seen."

"Dude, dump the StVZO lights and buy a good light."

"Never, the German way is the only way."

[disclaimer: that entry into the Urban Dictionary was written by me in 2013]

Gee, Steven. You wrote that? No ****? I never would have guessed.


And nobody would be dumb enough to run into a low hanging tree branch
while riding on a road. Get real.

If a town has such tree branches, the town mayor should be hung from one.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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