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Cyclists and pedestrians in LA



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 14th 18, 06:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 8,163
Default Cyclists and pedestrians in LA

On 4/13/2018 5:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

Anyone ever charged with felon in possession or other crimes of illegal
firearms in Chicago? Almost never, despite strict, perhaps
unconstitutional, barriers against the law abiding citizens defending
themselves.


Actually a lot, but keep repeating what your NRA handlers tell you to
say.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/felony-weapon-cases-up-43-percent-in-2017-county-data-shows/
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  #12  
Old April 17th 18, 04:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
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Posts: 6,788
Default Cyclists and pedestrians in LA

On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 14:55:40 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/13/2018 11:57 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:29:50 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

Video is dramatic.


snip my blather


Out here in the real world, every solution brings its own new
problems:

https://nltimes.nl/2018/04/13/dutch-...fic-assoc-says

not just in Minnesota either!


Some of that is evident on the local bike trails here. People in
tri-bike training mode on the aero, road race training mode, a very few
e-bikes. The speed limit on most of the trails is 10 mph, if you're
going faster you're supposed to be in the street (although quite a few
miles of trails have no adjacent street).

So with that, and with the 8-mph-four-abreast riders and the wobbly
drunks and the wobbly little 'uns, there are frequently frayed tempers
and harsh words on the not-so-Minnesota-nice trails.

My firsthand experience of last summer is one I hope to never repeat!
  #13  
Old April 17th 18, 05:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 6,998
Default Cyclists and pedestrians in LA

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 11:41:04 PM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 14:55:40 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/13/2018 11:57 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:29:50 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

Video is dramatic.


snip my blather


Out here in the real world, every solution brings its own new
problems:

https://nltimes.nl/2018/04/13/dutch-...fic-assoc-says

not just in Minnesota either!


Some of that is evident on the local bike trails here. People in
tri-bike training mode on the aero, road race training mode, a very few
e-bikes. The speed limit on most of the trails is 10 mph, if you're
going faster you're supposed to be in the street (although quite a few
miles of trails have no adjacent street).

So with that, and with the 8-mph-four-abreast riders and the wobbly
drunks and the wobbly little 'uns, there are frequently frayed tempers
and harsh words on the not-so-Minnesota-nice trails.

My firsthand experience of last summer is one I hope to never repeat!


I was at a public meeting recently where a person who walks on a local MUP
(a wide one, actually a roadway that was closed) asked if there could be
painted stripes to separate peds from cyclists, because the cyclists often
pass too closely. The officials who were present nodded thoughtfully and
said they'd consider it. (I doubt they really will.)

The bicyclists who were present said nothing. But we know that peds are at
fault as often as cyclists. Some walk close to the edge, but some walk almost
on the painted center line, meaning it's tricky to choose which side to pass.
Many have earbuds and are thus functionally deaf. Some walk four or five
abreast. Many have dogs on long leashes. Many change direction suddenly and
without warning.

But there is no way of imposing orderly behavior on pedestrians, and I don't
believe we should try. I figure walking is the ultimate in "grandfathered"
behavior. The mistake here is reckoning that cyclists and peds will mix easily and well.

And I recognize the tempting analogy with cars & bikes. But segregated ped
facilities can work, largely because peds can easily see 360 degrees and can
stop or turn instantaneously. Bikes have much more limited maneuverability and
much longer stopping distances, not to mention far higher potential speeds.
Bikes must be treated as vehicles; and once that happens, bike segregation can't
work well where there are intersections, unless immense fortunes are spent on
exotic designs, or unless the culture accepts serious travel delay from
dedicated green light phases.

Most of what I wrote is about peds vs. bikes, but it's true that some of the
same conflicts exist between faster and slower cyclists. IME the slower ones
are the least predictable. But those are the same ones who would be least
likely, or least capable of, obeying stricter rules.

Rodney King said "Can't we all just get along?" Sadly, I'm not optimistic.

- Frank Krygowski
  #14  
Old April 18th 18, 12:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
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Posts: 6,788
Default Cyclists and pedestrians in LA

On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 09:56:56 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Rodney King said "Can't we all just get along?" Sadly, I'm not
optimistic.


If we could, we would. Peace is easier and cheaper than conflict.

As one of the vets in Ken Burns's "Vietnam" documentary series pointed
out, "we're not the dominant species on this planet because we're nice."
 




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