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The case for cycle lanes



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 29th 18, 10:46 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Peter Keller[_3_]
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Posts: 8,736
Default The case for cycle lanes

On 29/04/18 08:27, MrCheerful wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:08, JNugent wrote:
On 28/04/2018 18:30, TMS320 wrote:
On 28/04/18 15:17, JNugent wrote:

But I have noted in Germany (and, for that matter, in NL) that
cyclists behave properly and obey the law.

When watching German holiday makers pedalling at Lake Garda, I gained
no such impression.


In which German Land is Garda?

If only that were true in the UK (it certainly isn't). Perhaps
cyclists would not be hated as much as they are.

You have yet to take up my offer to meet up and point out the
situation as you believe it to be.


How true.


I read the other day that cyclist deaths in the NL now exceed the number
of car occupant deaths. Over 200 of each.Â* The rise is attributed to the
use of e-bikes by older riders.


That is why this older rider does not use an e-bike (which is really a
motor-bike).
I like my exercise without cheating.
Ads
  #22  
Old April 29th 18, 11:03 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Posts: 3,875
Default The case for cycle lanes

On 28/04/18 21:27, MrCheerful wrote:

I read the other day that cyclist deaths in the NL now exceed the number
of car occupant deaths. Over 200 of each.Â* The rise is attributed to the
use of e-bikes by older riders.


By "older riders" this is mainly amongst 80+ year olds. Perhaps e-bikes
are giving people the freedom to die out of doors.

Besides, 2007 to 2016 shows a similar increase in car occupant deaths
for older men. Putting on the hat of the typical technically illiterate
journalist (to get into the style you clearly admire) car occupant
deaths amongst older men went up 100%, whereas bicycle deaths went up
only 33%.
  #23  
Old April 29th 18, 11:24 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
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Posts: 11,000
Default The case for cycle lanes

On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 11:03:40 +0100, TMS320 wrote:

On 28/04/18 21:27, MrCheerful wrote:

I read the other day that cyclist deaths in the NL now exceed the number
of car occupant deaths. Over 200 of each.* The rise is attributed to the
use of e-bikes by older riders.


By "older riders" this is mainly amongst 80+ year olds. Perhaps e-bikes
are giving people the freedom to die out of doors.


Cyclists of all ages in the UK already have the freedom to die out of door:and
often decide to take up that option.


  #24  
Old April 29th 18, 11:25 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
MrCheerful
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Posts: 4,757
Default The case for cycle lanes

On 29/04/2018 11:24, Judith wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 11:03:40 +0100, TMS320 wrote:

On 28/04/18 21:27, MrCheerful wrote:

I read the other day that cyclist deaths in the NL now exceed the number
of car occupant deaths. Over 200 of each.Â* The rise is attributed to the
use of e-bikes by older riders.


By "older riders" this is mainly amongst 80+ year olds. Perhaps e-bikes
are giving people the freedom to die out of doors.


Cyclists of all ages in the UK already have the freedom to die out of door:and
often decide to take up that option.



But not in sufficient numbers to keep up with the Netherlands, UK
cyclists must try harder.
  #25  
Old April 29th 18, 02:35 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
[email protected]
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Posts: 489
Default The case for cycle lanes

On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 11:24:11 AM UTC+1, Judith wrote:


Cyclists of all ages in the UK already have the freedom to die out of door:and
often decide to take up that option.


How true.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Newport.html
  #26  
Old April 29th 18, 05:36 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
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Posts: 11,574
Default The case for cycle lanes

On 29/04/2018 10:33, TMS320 wrote:

On 28/04/18 21:08, JNugent wrote:
On 28/04/2018 18:30, TMS320 wrote:
On 28/04/18 15:17, JNugent wrote:


But I have noted in Germany (and, for that matter, in NL) that
cyclists behave properly and obey the law.

When watching German holiday makers pedalling at Lake Garda, I gained
no such impression.


In which German Land is Garda?


Hmmm. German holiday makers are people that normally live in Germany. It
is remarkable that you can't make the connection.


It is a remarkable talent to be able to tell a person's nationality just
by looking at them.

A super-power, even.

If only that were true in the UK (it certainly isn't). Perhaps
cyclists would not be hated as much as they are.

You have yet to take up my offer to meet up and point out the
situation as you believe it to be.


How true.


You have this idyllic notion that, in law, people are innocent until
proven guilty. You want to have it both ways.


I don't have that notion. People are innocent *unless* proven guilty. It
isn't just a matter of time.

As to your other point, we both know that most UK cyclists are habitual
law-breakers.

  #27  
Old April 29th 18, 05:37 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
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Posts: 11,574
Default The case for cycle lanes

On 29/04/2018 10:44, Peter Keller wrote:
On 29/04/18 02:17, JNugent wrote:
On 28/04/2018 10:09, Peter Keller wrote:
On 28/04/18 11:38, Simon Jester wrote:
On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 11:40:59 AM UTC+1, Peter Keller wrote:
On 27/04/18 05:31, Simon Jester wrote:
On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 10:44:05 AM UTC+1, Peter Keller wrote:
On 26/04/18 02:43, Simon Jester wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DNNIB_PdaA

Maybe there is a case for well-designed bike lanes which actually
lead
somewhere and connect to things but in practice this will happen very
slowly.
I am not sure how he rides bikes, but sure there are many
inconsiderate
bicyclists. Just like there are many inconsiderate [insert flavour of
the month here].
In general I find roads and motorised traffic not much of a
problem. But
then I do crazy things like being visible and predictable, signalling
intentions, stopping for red lights and pedestrians, giving way when
required, riding with the traffic and not against it, and other such
stupid things. Then drivers also do stupid things like give way to
me,
give me room, give me a cheery wave (no doubt like they are
humouring a
lunatic) and so forth.

Not all cyclists are as confident as you and I.

I have been a cycle commuter for 30 years and have no problem
allowing motorists to share our roads but I would still rather have
segregated cycle ways.


Fair enough.
I am just pointing out that it will not happen overnight.

It's all about attitude.

Why does this work in Germany

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRoG2HrYx8k

But we are told it would be suicide for UK cyclists.


Ahh yes that brings back memories ...
In Germany something like 12 percent of urban travel is made by bicycle.
In the UK I believe it is less than 2 percent.
Safety in numbers? German respect for law and order? It certainly was
very pleasant and practical using a bicycle in Germany.


12% sounds very high. It may be accurate for the Netherlands.



http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs...terneurope.pdf

I was mistaken.


Fair enough. It isn't a capital offence!

Germany about 10 percent.
Netherlands about 26 percent.
UK about 2 percent.

I lived in Münster (Westfalen) which is swamped by bicycles. They even
had to build a big bicycle parking building near the railway station.


Germany does seem to have fallen in love (well, city councils, at least)
with park and ride.
  #28  
Old April 29th 18, 07:44 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 489
Default The case for cycle lanes

On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 10:44:16 AM UTC+1, Peter Keller wrote:


I was mistaken.
Germany about 10 percent.
Netherlands about 26 percent.
UK about 2 percent.

I lived in Münster (Westfalen) which is swamped by bicycles. They even
had to build a big bicycle parking building near the railway station.


I was in Münster in 2009 on my way to Bratislava and then to Romania again.
In 2016, this was my last big epic trip around Europe.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Db-Kx0UWkAAJ_wc.jpg
  #29  
Old April 29th 18, 11:04 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Posts: 3,875
Default The case for cycle lanes

On 29/04/18 17:36, JNugent wrote:
On 29/04/2018 10:33, TMS320 wrote:
On 28/04/18 21:08, JNugent wrote:
On 28/04/2018 18:30, TMS320 wrote:
On 28/04/18 15:17, JNugent wrote:


But I have noted in Germany (and, for that matter, in NL) that
cyclists behave properly and obey the law.

When watching German holiday makers pedalling at Lake Garda, I
gained no such impression.

In which German Land is Garda?


Hmmm. German holiday makers are people that normally live in Germany.
It is remarkable that you can't make the connection.


It is a remarkable talent to be able to tell a person's nationality just
by looking at them.

A super-power, even.


Hardly, when one has working ears. Don't you?

If only that were true in the UK (it certainly isn't). Perhaps
cyclists would not be hated as much as they are.

You have yet to take up my offer to meet up and point out the
situation as you believe it to be.

How true.


You have this idyllic notion that, in law, people are innocent until
proven guilty. You want to have it both ways.


I don't have that notion. People are innocent *unless* proven guilty. It
isn't just a matter of time.

As to your other point, we both know that most UK cyclists are habitual
law-breakers.


I don't know this. You try to claim they do without providing any proof.
 




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