Better Braking?

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 20:18:58 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 6:34:47 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/14/2020 5:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/14/2020 5:47 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 21:35:18 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 11:35:46 AM UTC-8, Duane
wrote:
On 2/14/2020 2:23 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 12:00:11 UTC-5, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2020 5:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 2:36:58 PM UTC-8,
John B. Slocomb wrote:

Own Data? You mean like your assertions that a
cheap Chinese
flashlight is a perfect bicycle head light? ...

I have taken Steven's word at the effectiveness of
"cheap Chinese
flashlights as bicycle lights" and he was completely
correct. Sorry
if you seem to think that you know anything about
anything but you
have shown yourself to be a great deal heavier on
opinion than knowledge of anything.

You say Mr. Scharf was completely correct when he
touted cheap Chinese
flashlights as bike headlights. That was when he said
dyno powered
headlights were terrible and foolish.

Problem is, Mr. Scharf is now using dyno powered
headlights on his
bikes, and no longer seems to say cheap Chinese
flashlights are perfect.

My first question is, was he completely correct back
then? Or is he
completely correct now?

My second question regards specific details. My dyno
powered LED
headlights illuminate the entire width of the lane,
and simultaneously
illuminate stop signs up to a quarter mile away from
me, all without
blinding oncoming riders.

The Chinese flashlight I tried could not do that, no
matter how I
adjusted the tilt and the focus. It was a truly
crappy headlight. What,
specifically, does yours do? What's its brand and model?



--
- Frank Krygowski

Some people use flashlights that have a narrow beam
but good range.
Those lights might be okay as a be seen light but they
don't light up
much of the road. Others use flashlights with
adjustable focus that
spread the beams to light of more of the road. the
trouble is that when
they do that they lose the range they need if riding
in totally dark
conditions with no city lights.

I really like my CygoLite Rover II light as it does
light up the two
lanes of the country roads around here and it does so
no matter what
speed I'm riding at. Also, I can move the battery and
light unit from
bike to bike easily. I do wish it had a bit more
range. For that reason
I was considering getting the Centauri or Trident.
Dynamo lights simply
don't meet my needs.

Cheers


I imagine it depends on what you want. I use a Planet
Bike 2w when I'm
doing club rides in the evening because it's dark on my
ride back home
from the start. But I'm not out in the country, only
the burbs. I
don't need a lot of distance but I need something to
show me the
potholes in enough time to avoid them. My guess is
that a flashlight
would probably work in that case.

Then you have people riding in the rain, pitch dark,
pitch dark rain
down steep declines etc. etc. etc. I seriously doubt
that there's a one
for all solution.

In the latter circumstances, a dyno clearly is not the
solution. In
stormy weather, fast downhill or trail, a bright battery
light is best .
. . for me, and speaking as someone who owns a dyno and
battery lights. I
can A/B my dyno and my little all-in-on L&M Urban 800
every night since I
use both. The L&M produces far better light; it is one
fourth the total
price of my dyno set up and suffers only in that it
requires charging.

-- Jay Beattie.



Like I’ve said before most of times that I’m riding
at night it’s by
accident. The few planned times are as I described. So
a dyno doesn’t do
much for me.

Oddly, "riding at night by accident" is one of the main
reasons I settled on dyno lights. A big event for me was
being on a solo tour in Middle-Of-Nowhere Township, trying
to get to a particular state park. It was hillier than I
anticipated, dinner in a restaurant took extra long, and
surprise, I had to do the last few miles in the dark.

So I pulled out the battery light I'd brought and turned it
on. The batteries got me to, oh, 3 to 5 miles from the
campground. Then nothing. On a two lane country highway.

Fortunately, traffic was light. I finished by pulling way
off the side of the road whenever a car came. I then
installed a dyno on every bike.

Since then, there have been countless times I didn't plan on
riding in the dark, but had to - meetings that ran long,
extra work to get done, having too much fun to leave, etc.
It's no problem. My lights are just like those on my car. No
preparation needed, just turn them on and they work.

I can see that wouldn't be valuable for people who use their
bikes differently than I do.

As for charging, it’s pretty much routine. I have to
charge my phone, my
Garmin, my lights and even my watch. Pfft. Battery
charge is now an
issue. A Garmin and a phone that can last for a 175km
ride hS become a
thing.

Again, we all have different requirements. The fact that
we all ride bikes
is way cool. Too bad we can’t avoid the bull**** here.

and then a thread would look like:

Hey! I use a Gamnin!
-----
You do? So do I.
----
Wow! I use one too.
---
Doesn't everybody use a Garmin?
---
So cheap they ought to.
---
:-)

:-) And it would require so little technical thinking! Win
- win!



Well, someone could always very precisely measure some
aspect another guy cares nothing about and call it 'data'.

I don't think it's better to give no measurements, nothing but a
vague "mine is better" opinion, and say "data doesn't matter."

What do you use for lights? How well do they work for you? Why?

- Frank Krygowski

But Frank... everyone with the brain power of a cockroach MUST know
that my lights are the best in the world!
After all haven't I repeatedly told the world?
How could anyone doubt it?

:-) :-0 :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 20:30:56 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 7:40:02 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 11:23:24 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 12:00:11 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2020 5:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 2:36:58 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:

Own Data? You mean like your assertions that a cheap Chinese
flashlight is a perfect bicycle head light? ...

I have taken Steven's word at the effectiveness of "cheap Chinese flashlights as bicycle lights" and he was completely correct. Sorry if you seem to think that you know anything about anything but you have shown yourself to be a great deal heavier on opinion than knowledge of anything.

You say Mr. Scharf was completely correct when he touted cheap Chinese
flashlights as bike headlights. That was when he said dyno powered
headlights were terrible and foolish.

Problem is, Mr. Scharf is now using dyno powered headlights on his
bikes, and no longer seems to say cheap Chinese flashlights are perfect.

My first question is, was he completely correct back then? Or is he
completely correct now?

My second question regards specific details. My dyno powered LED
headlights illuminate the entire width of the lane, and simultaneously
illuminate stop signs up to a quarter mile away from me, all without
blinding oncoming riders.

The Chinese flashlight I tried could not do that, no matter how I
adjusted the tilt and the focus. It was a truly crappy headlight. What,
specifically, does yours do? What's its brand and model?



--
- Frank Krygowski

Some people use flashlights that have a narrow beam but good range. Those lights might be okay as a be seen light but they don't light up much of the road. Others use flashlights with adjustable focus that spread the beams to light of more of the road. the trouble is that when they do that they lose the range they need if riding in totally dark conditions with no city lights.

I really like my CygoLite Rover II light as it does light up the two lanes of the country roads around here and it does so no matter what speed I'm riding at. Also, I can move the battery and light unit from bike to bike easily. I do wish it had a bit more range. For that reason I was considering getting the Centauri or Trident. Dynamo lights simply don't meet my needs.

Cheers

I think that there was a GCN video of a rim driven dynamo light and it was pretty funny because it was just like I remembered it as a kid. As you pushed the pedal down you would get a light and as you were changing over to the opposite the bike would stop from the massive resistance of a 30 watt dynamo. If Frank really uses those things he must ride a bike with a triple and a 26 to 42 gear ratio.

Tom, you have a problem confusing fantasy with reality.

Let me describe a spontaneous, unplanned dynamo test I did once. I've
described it before, but you probably wouldn't remember.

I was on a solo bike tour, heading to Bloomington IN where my kid was
soon to finish college. ("Dad, you've been talking about riding your
bike here. This is your last chance.")

I was on a nice, empty, flat four lane highway heading due west, and
feeling good because I was cranking along nicely at 20 mph despite my
full camping load.

Then I hit a bump in the pavement. After that, I heard some new noise
from my bike, and to my dismay my speed dropped about a mile per hour.

I remember checking for dragging brakes by squeezing the levers and
looking at the brake arms. Nothing. I didn't stop, but I worried
about what damage I had done that was slowing my bike. Then I realized
the bump had caused my generator to click on. I clicked it off and my
speed returned.

So at the power output needed for 20 mph, putting on the generator
slowed me to maybe 19 mph. This was with a bottom bracket generator,
but I haven't seen any real difference with a bottle dyno as I set
them up. And note, this matches Chris Juden's numbers that John
alluded to. Let me know if you need a link.

As always: Sorry for introducing real numbers into a discussion.

- Frank Krygowski

Ah but Frank, in Tom's post he described his generator as a 30 watt
generator.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 5:30:59 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 7:40:02 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 11:23:24 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 12:00:11 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2020 5:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 2:36:58 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:

Own Data? You mean like your assertions that a cheap Chinese
flashlight is a perfect bicycle head light? ...

I have taken Steven's word at the effectiveness of "cheap Chinese flashlights as bicycle lights" and he was completely correct. Sorry if you seem to think that you know anything about anything but you have shown yourself to be a great deal heavier on opinion than knowledge of anything.

You say Mr. Scharf was completely correct when he touted cheap Chinese
flashlights as bike headlights. That was when he said dyno powered
headlights were terrible and foolish.

Problem is, Mr. Scharf is now using dyno powered headlights on his
bikes, and no longer seems to say cheap Chinese flashlights are perfect.

My first question is, was he completely correct back then? Or is he
completely correct now?

My second question regards specific details. My dyno powered LED
headlights illuminate the entire width of the lane, and simultaneously
illuminate stop signs up to a quarter mile away from me, all without
blinding oncoming riders.

The Chinese flashlight I tried could not do that, no matter how I
adjusted the tilt and the focus. It was a truly crappy headlight. What,
specifically, does yours do? What's its brand and model?



--
- Frank Krygowski

Some people use flashlights that have a narrow beam but good range. Those lights might be okay as a be seen light but they don't light up much of the road. Others use flashlights with adjustable focus that spread the beams to light of more of the road. the trouble is that when they do that they lose the range they need if riding in totally dark conditions with no city lights.

I really like my CygoLite Rover II light as it does light up the two lanes of the country roads around here and it does so no matter what speed I'm riding at. Also, I can move the battery and light unit from bike to bike easily. I do wish it had a bit more range. For that reason I was considering getting the Centauri or Trident. Dynamo lights simply don't meet my needs.

Cheers

I think that there was a GCN video of a rim driven dynamo light and it was pretty funny because it was just like I remembered it as a kid. As you pushed the pedal down you would get a light and as you were changing over to the opposite the bike would stop from the massive resistance of a 30 watt dynamo. If Frank really uses those things he must ride a bike with a triple and a 26 to 42 gear ratio.

Tom, you have a problem confusing fantasy with reality.

Let me describe a spontaneous, unplanned dynamo test I did once. I've
described it before, but you probably wouldn't remember.

I was on a solo bike tour, heading to Bloomington IN where my kid was
soon to finish college. ("Dad, you've been talking about riding your
bike here. This is your last chance.")

I was on a nice, empty, flat four lane highway heading due west, and
feeling good because I was cranking along nicely at 20 mph despite my
full camping load.

Then I hit a bump in the pavement. After that, I heard some new noise
from my bike, and to my dismay my speed dropped about a mile per hour.

I remember checking for dragging brakes by squeezing the levers and
looking at the brake arms. Nothing. I didn't stop, but I worried
about what damage I had done that was slowing my bike. Then I realized
the bump had caused my generator to click on. I clicked it off and my
speed returned.

So at the power output needed for 20 mph, putting on the generator
slowed me to maybe 19 mph. This was with a bottom bracket generator,
but I haven't seen any real difference with a bottle dyno as I set
them up. And note, this matches Chris Juden's numbers that John
alluded to. Let me know if you need a link.

As always: Sorry for introducing real numbers into a discussion.

- Frank Krygowski

Hmm, you saying that your speed dropped from 20-19 mph in uncontrolled conditions are real numbers?

Lou

AMuzi wrote:
On 2/14/2020 5:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/14/2020 5:47 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 21:35:18 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 11:35:46 AM UTC-8, Duane
wrote:
On 2/14/2020 2:23 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 12:00:11 UTC-5, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2020 5:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 2:36:58 PM UTC-8,
John B. Slocomb wrote:

Own Data? You mean like your assertions that a
cheap Chinese
flashlight is a perfect bicycle head light? ...

I have taken Steven's word at the effectiveness of
"cheap Chinese
flashlights as bicycle lights" and he was completely
correct. Sorry
if you seem to think that you know anything about
anything but you
have shown yourself to be a great deal heavier on
opinion than knowledge of anything.

You say Mr. Scharf was completely correct when he
touted cheap Chinese
flashlights as bike headlights. That was when he said
dyno powered
headlights were terrible and foolish.

Problem is, Mr. Scharf is now using dyno powered
headlights on his
bikes, and no longer seems to say cheap Chinese
flashlights are perfect.

My first question is, was he completely correct back
then? Or is he
completely correct now?

My second question regards specific details. My dyno
powered LED
headlights illuminate the entire width of the lane,
and simultaneously
illuminate stop signs up to a quarter mile away from
me, all without
blinding oncoming riders.

The Chinese flashlight I tried could not do that, no
matter how I
adjusted the tilt and the focus. It was a truly
crappy headlight. What,
specifically, does yours do? What's its brand and model?



--
- Frank Krygowski

Some people use flashlights that have a narrow beam
but good range.
Those lights might be okay as a be seen light but they
don't light up
much of the road. Others use flashlights with
adjustable focus that
spread the beams to light of more of the road. the
trouble is that when
they do that they lose the range they need if riding
in totally dark
conditions with no city lights.

I really like my CygoLite Rover II light as it does
light up the two
lanes of the country roads around here and it does so
no matter what
speed I'm riding at. Also, I can move the battery and
light unit from
bike to bike easily. I do wish it had a bit more
range. For that reason
I was considering getting the Centauri or Trident.
Dynamo lights simply
don't meet my needs.

Cheers


I imagine it depends on what you want. I use a Planet
Bike 2w when I'm
doing club rides in the evening because it's dark on my
ride back home
from the start. But I'm not out in the country, only
the burbs. I
don't need a lot of distance but I need something to
show me the
potholes in enough time to avoid them. My guess is
that a flashlight
would probably work in that case.

Then you have people riding in the rain, pitch dark,
pitch dark rain
down steep declines etc. etc. etc. I seriously doubt
that there's a one
for all solution.

In the latter circumstances, a dyno clearly is not the
solution. In
stormy weather, fast downhill or trail, a bright battery
light is best .
. . for me, and speaking as someone who owns a dyno and
battery lights. I
can A/B my dyno and my little all-in-on L&M Urban 800
every night since I
use both. The L&M produces far better light; it is one
fourth the total
price of my dyno set up and suffers only in that it
requires charging.

-- Jay Beattie.



Like I’ve said before most of times that I’m riding
at night it’s by
accident. The few planned times are as I described. So
a dyno doesn’t do
much for me.

Oddly, "riding at night by accident" is one of the main
reasons I settled on dyno lights. A big event for me was
being on a solo tour in Middle-Of-Nowhere Township, trying
to get to a particular state park. It was hillier than I
anticipated, dinner in a restaurant took extra long, and
surprise, I had to do the last few miles in the dark.

So I pulled out the battery light I'd brought and turned it
on. The batteries got me to, oh, 3 to 5 miles from the
campground. Then nothing. On a two lane country highway.

Fortunately, traffic was light. I finished by pulling way
off the side of the road whenever a car came. I then
installed a dyno on every bike.

Since then, there have been countless times I didn't plan on
riding in the dark, but had to - meetings that ran long,
extra work to get done, having too much fun to leave, etc.
It's no problem. My lights are just like those on my car. No
preparation needed, just turn them on and they work.

I can see that wouldn't be valuable for people who use their
bikes differently than I do.

As for charging, it’s pretty much routine. I have to
charge my phone, my
Garmin, my lights and even my watch. Pfft. Battery
charge is now an
issue. A Garmin and a phone that can last for a 175km
ride hS become a
thing.

Again, we all have different requirements. The fact that
we all ride bikes
is way cool. Too bad we can’t avoid the bull**** here.

and then a thread would look like:

Hey! I use a Gamnin!
-----
You do? So do I.
----
Wow! I use one too.
---
Doesn't everybody use a Garmin?
---
So cheap they ought to.
---
:-)

:-) And it would require so little technical thinking! Win
- win!



Well, someone could always very precisely measure some
aspect another guy cares nothing about and call it 'data'.


+1

On 2/14/2020 10:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 6:34:47 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/14/2020 5:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/14/2020 5:47 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 21:35:18 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 11:35:46 AM UTC-8, Duane
wrote:
On 2/14/2020 2:23 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 12:00:11 UTC-5, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2020 5:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 2:36:58 PM UTC-8,
John B. Slocomb wrote:

Own Data? You mean like your assertions that a
cheap Chinese
flashlight is a perfect bicycle head light? ...

I have taken Steven's word at the effectiveness of
"cheap Chinese
flashlights as bicycle lights" and he was completely
correct. Sorry
if you seem to think that you know anything about
anything but you
have shown yourself to be a great deal heavier on
opinion than knowledge of anything.

You say Mr. Scharf was completely correct when he
touted cheap Chinese
flashlights as bike headlights. That was when he said
dyno powered
headlights were terrible and foolish.

Problem is, Mr. Scharf is now using dyno powered
headlights on his
bikes, and no longer seems to say cheap Chinese
flashlights are perfect.

My first question is, was he completely correct back
then? Or is he
completely correct now?

My second question regards specific details. My dyno
powered LED
headlights illuminate the entire width of the lane,
and simultaneously
illuminate stop signs up to a quarter mile away from
me, all without
blinding oncoming riders.

The Chinese flashlight I tried could not do that, no
matter how I
adjusted the tilt and the focus. It was a truly
crappy headlight. What,
specifically, does yours do? What's its brand and model?



--
- Frank Krygowski

Some people use flashlights that have a narrow beam
but good range.
Those lights might be okay as a be seen light but they
don't light up
much of the road. Others use flashlights with
adjustable focus that
spread the beams to light of more of the road. the
trouble is that when
they do that they lose the range they need if riding
in totally dark
conditions with no city lights.

I really like my CygoLite Rover II light as it does
light up the two
lanes of the country roads around here and it does so
no matter what
speed I'm riding at. Also, I can move the battery and
light unit from
bike to bike easily. I do wish it had a bit more
range. For that reason
I was considering getting the Centauri or Trident.
Dynamo lights simply
don't meet my needs.

Cheers


I imagine it depends on what you want. I use a Planet
Bike 2w when I'm
doing club rides in the evening because it's dark on my
ride back home
from the start. But I'm not out in the country, only
the burbs. I
don't need a lot of distance but I need something to
show me the
potholes in enough time to avoid them. My guess is
that a flashlight
would probably work in that case.

Then you have people riding in the rain, pitch dark,
pitch dark rain
down steep declines etc. etc. etc. I seriously doubt
that there's a one
for all solution.

In the latter circumstances, a dyno clearly is not the
solution. In
stormy weather, fast downhill or trail, a bright battery
light is best .
. . for me, and speaking as someone who owns a dyno and
battery lights. I
can A/B my dyno and my little all-in-on L&M Urban 800
every night since I
use both. The L&M produces far better light; it is one
fourth the total
price of my dyno set up and suffers only in that it
requires charging.

-- Jay Beattie.



Like I’ve said before most of times that I’m riding
at night it’s by
accident. The few planned times are as I described. So
a dyno doesn’t do
much for me.

Oddly, "riding at night by accident" is one of the main
reasons I settled on dyno lights. A big event for me was
being on a solo tour in Middle-Of-Nowhere Township, trying
to get to a particular state park. It was hillier than I
anticipated, dinner in a restaurant took extra long, and
surprise, I had to do the last few miles in the dark.

So I pulled out the battery light I'd brought and turned it
on. The batteries got me to, oh, 3 to 5 miles from the
campground. Then nothing. On a two lane country highway.

Fortunately, traffic was light. I finished by pulling way
off the side of the road whenever a car came. I then
installed a dyno on every bike.

Since then, there have been countless times I didn't plan on
riding in the dark, but had to - meetings that ran long,
extra work to get done, having too much fun to leave, etc.
It's no problem. My lights are just like those on my car. No
preparation needed, just turn them on and they work.

I can see that wouldn't be valuable for people who use their
bikes differently than I do.

As for charging, it’s pretty much routine. I have to
charge my phone, my
Garmin, my lights and even my watch. Pfft. Battery
charge is now an
issue. A Garmin and a phone that can last for a 175km
ride hS become a
thing.

Again, we all have different requirements. The fact that
we all ride bikes
is way cool. Too bad we can’t avoid the bull**** here.

and then a thread would look like:

Hey! I use a Gamnin!
-----
You do? So do I.
----
Wow! I use one too.
---
Doesn't everybody use a Garmin?
---
So cheap they ought to.
---
:-)

:-) And it would require so little technical thinking! Win
- win!



Well, someone could always very precisely measure some
aspect another guy cares nothing about and call it 'data'.

I don't think it's better to give no measurements, nothing but a
vague "mine is better" opinion, and say "data doesn't matter."

What do you use for lights? How well do they work for you? Why?

- Frank Krygowski


Exactly. You and I have chosen no-switch always-on dynamos
with which we are satisfied based on convenience and
dependability with virtually zero maintenance. Heated
discussions of amp hours, megalumens and optic patterns may
be vaguely interesting but not relevant to my (our?) cycling.

Regarding the topic, braking, ditto. No one disputes that
big fluid discs have better peak braking power and heat
dissipation for sustained braking power. One might chart
those factors impressively in comparison to rim brakes. For
the bike I ride this time of year, a simple sidepull front
with fixed gear is perfectly adequate and I've never wanted
for more braking power[1] on that bike given the way I use
it. I'm not Jay, nor Joerg, who have different needs and taste.

[1] what that bike really needs is a heater!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:50:32 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 2/14/2020 10:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Well, someone could always very precisely measure some aspect
another guy cares nothing about and call it 'data'.

I don't think it's better to give no measurements, nothing but
a vague "mine is better" opinion, and say "data doesn't
matter."

Regarding the topic, braking, ditto. No one disputes that big
fluid discs have better peak braking power and heat dissipation
for sustained braking power. One might chart those factors
impressively in comparison to rim brakes. For the bike I ride
this time of year, a simple sidepull front with fixed gear is
perfectly adequate and I've never wanted for more braking
power[1] on that bike given the way I use it. I'm not Jay, nor
Joerg, who have different needs and taste.

[1] what that bike really needs is a heater!

My fixed gear is set up the same way; that is, just a simple front
rim brake.

Just coming out of single digit temps here; this heater idea has
some appeal. Perhaps an e-bike battery could be re-purposed?


--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Saturday, 15 February 2020 12:32:22 UTC-5, Ted Heise wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:50:32 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 2/14/2020 10:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Well, someone could always very precisely measure some aspect
another guy cares nothing about and call it 'data'.

I don't think it's better to give no measurements, nothing but
a vague "mine is better" opinion, and say "data doesn't
matter."

Regarding the topic, braking, ditto. No one disputes that big
fluid discs have better peak braking power and heat dissipation
for sustained braking power. One might chart those factors
impressively in comparison to rim brakes. For the bike I ride
this time of year, a simple sidepull front with fixed gear is
perfectly adequate and I've never wanted for more braking
power[1] on that bike given the way I use it. I'm not Jay, nor
Joerg, who have different needs and taste.

[1] what that bike really needs is a heater!

My fixed gear is set up the same way; that is, just a simple front
rim brake.

Just coming out of single digit temps here; this heater idea has
some appeal. Perhaps an e-bike battery could be re-purposed?


--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

A can of Sterno or similar gel-alcohol fuel mounted on a gimble mount, and shielded from the wind will work. I did it once for fun. I had an inverted funnel over the windshield of the Sterno can and a flexible metal hose attached to the funnel and then insulated where I had it go under my jacket.

Cheers

On 2/15/2020 9:50 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/14/2020 10:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 6:34:47 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/14/2020 5:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/14/2020 5:47 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 21:35:18 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 11:35:46 AM UTC-8, Duane
wrote:
On 2/14/2020 2:23 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 12:00:11 UTC-5, Frank
Krygowski* wrote:
On 2/13/2020 5:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 2:36:58 PM UTC-8,
John B. Slocomb wrote:

Own Data? You mean like your assertions that a
cheap Chinese
flashlight is a perfect bicycle head light? ...

I have taken Steven's word at the effectiveness of
"cheap Chinese
flashlights as bicycle lights" and he was completely
correct. Sorry
if you seem to think that you know anything about
anything but you
have shown yourself to be a great deal heavier on
opinion than knowledge of anything.

You say Mr. Scharf was completely correct when he
touted cheap Chinese
flashlights as bike headlights. That was when he said
dyno powered
headlights were terrible and foolish.

Problem is, Mr. Scharf is now using dyno powered
headlights on his
bikes, and no longer seems to say cheap Chinese
flashlights are perfect.

My first question is, was he completely correct back
then? Or is he
completely correct now?

My second question regards specific details. My dyno
powered LED
headlights illuminate the entire width of the lane,
and simultaneously
illuminate stop signs up to a quarter mile away from
me, all without
blinding oncoming riders.

The Chinese flashlight I tried could not do that, no
matter how I
adjusted the tilt and the focus. It was a truly
crappy headlight. What,
specifically, does yours do? What's its brand and model?



--
- Frank Krygowski

Some people use flashlights that have a narrow beam
but good range.
Those lights might be okay as a be seen light but they
don't light up
much of the road. Others use flashlights with
adjustable focus that
spread the beams to light of more of the road. the
trouble is that when
they do that they lose the range they need if riding
in totally dark
conditions with no city lights.

I really like my CygoLite Rover II light as it does
light up the two
lanes of the country roads around here and it does so
no matter what
speed I'm riding at. Also, I can move the battery and
light unit from
bike to bike easily. I do wish it had a bit more
range. For that reason
I was considering getting the Centauri or Trident.
Dynamo lights simply
don't meet my needs.

Cheers


I imagine it depends on what you want.* I use a Planet
Bike 2w when I'm
doing club rides in the evening because it's dark on my
ride back home
from the start.* But I'm not out in the country, only
the burbs.* I
don't need a lot of distance but I need something to
show me the
potholes in enough time to avoid them.* My guess is
that a flashlight
would probably work in that case.

Then you have people riding in the rain, pitch dark,
pitch dark rain
down steep declines etc. etc. etc.* I seriously doubt
that there's a one
for all solution.

In the latter circumstances, a dyno clearly is not the
solution. In
stormy weather, fast downhill or trail, a bright battery
light is best .
. . for me, and speaking as someone who owns a dyno and
battery lights. I
can A/B my dyno and my little all-in-on L&M Urban 800
every night since I
use both. The L&M produces far better light; it is one
fourth the total
price of my dyno set up and suffers only in that it
requires charging.

-- Jay Beattie.



Like I’ve said before most of times that I’m riding
at night it’s by
accident.* The few planned times are as I described.* So
a dyno doesn’t do
much for me.

Oddly, "riding at night by accident" is one of the main
reasons I settled on dyno lights. A big event for me was
being on a solo tour in Middle-Of-Nowhere Township, trying
to get to a particular state park. It was hillier than I
anticipated, dinner in a restaurant took extra long, and
surprise, I had to do the last few miles in the dark.

So I pulled out the battery light I'd brought and turned it
on. The batteries got me to, oh, 3 to 5 miles from the
campground. Then nothing. On a two lane country highway.

Fortunately, traffic was light. I finished by pulling way
off the side of the road whenever a car came. I then
installed a dyno on every bike.

Since then, there have been countless times I didn't plan on
riding in the dark, but had to - meetings that ran long,
extra work to get done, having too much fun to leave, etc.
It's no problem. My lights are just like those on my car. No
preparation needed, just turn them on and they work.

I can see that wouldn't be valuable for people who use their
bikes differently than I do.

As for charging, it’s pretty much routine.* I have to
charge my phone, my
Garmin, my lights and even my watch.* Pfft.* Battery
charge is now an
issue.* A Garmin and a phone that can last for a 175km
ride hS become a
thing.

Again, we all have different requirements.* The fact that
we all ride bikes
is way cool.* Too bad we can’t avoid the bull**** here.

and then a thread would look like:

Hey! I use a Gamnin!
-----
You do? So do I.
----
Wow! I use one too.
---
Doesn't everybody use a Garmin?
---
So cheap they ought to.
---
:-)

:-)* And it would require so little technical thinking! Win
- win!



Well, someone could always very precisely measure some
aspect another guy cares nothing about and call it 'data'.

I don't think it's better to give no measurements, nothing but a
vague "mine is better" opinion, and say "data doesn't matter."

What do you use for lights? How well do they work for you? Why?

- Frank Krygowski


Exactly.* You and I have chosen no-switch always-on dynamos with which
we are satisfied based on convenience and dependability with virtually
zero maintenance. Heated discussions of amp hours, megalumens and optic
patterns may be vaguely interesting but not relevant to my (our?) cycling.

Optic patterns are relevant to my riding. My headlights use their lumens
efficiently and I see much better as a result. My night riding friends
have said the same. "I want to ride next to Frank because his headlight
is so much better!"

Optic patterns of oncoming cyclists are also relevant to me. I've been
blinded often enough by sledgehammer bike lights - crude things in which
the designers maximized lumens and spent zero on optical design. Yes, it
bothers me that people here claim those designs are the only good choice.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/15/2020 3:16 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 5:30:59 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 7:40:02 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 11:23:24 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 12:00:11 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2020 5:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 2:36:58 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:

Own Data? You mean like your assertions that a cheap Chinese
flashlight is a perfect bicycle head light? ...

I have taken Steven's word at the effectiveness of "cheap Chinese flashlights as bicycle lights" and he was completely correct. Sorry if you seem to think that you know anything about anything but you have shown yourself to be a great deal heavier on opinion than knowledge of anything.

You say Mr. Scharf was completely correct when he touted cheap Chinese
flashlights as bike headlights. That was when he said dyno powered
headlights were terrible and foolish.

Problem is, Mr. Scharf is now using dyno powered headlights on his
bikes, and no longer seems to say cheap Chinese flashlights are perfect.

My first question is, was he completely correct back then? Or is he
completely correct now?

My second question regards specific details. My dyno powered LED
headlights illuminate the entire width of the lane, and simultaneously
illuminate stop signs up to a quarter mile away from me, all without
blinding oncoming riders.

The Chinese flashlight I tried could not do that, no matter how I
adjusted the tilt and the focus. It was a truly crappy headlight. What,
specifically, does yours do? What's its brand and model?



--
- Frank Krygowski

Some people use flashlights that have a narrow beam but good range. Those lights might be okay as a be seen light but they don't light up much of the road. Others use flashlights with adjustable focus that spread the beams to light of more of the road. the trouble is that when they do that they lose the range they need if riding in totally dark conditions with no city lights.

I really like my CygoLite Rover II light as it does light up the two lanes of the country roads around here and it does so no matter what speed I'm riding at. Also, I can move the battery and light unit from bike to bike easily. I do wish it had a bit more range. For that reason I was considering getting the Centauri or Trident. Dynamo lights simply don't meet my needs.

Cheers

I think that there was a GCN video of a rim driven dynamo light and it was pretty funny because it was just like I remembered it as a kid. As you pushed the pedal down you would get a light and as you were changing over to the opposite the bike would stop from the massive resistance of a 30 watt dynamo. If Frank really uses those things he must ride a bike with a triple and a 26 to 42 gear ratio.

Tom, you have a problem confusing fantasy with reality.

Let me describe a spontaneous, unplanned dynamo test I did once. I've
described it before, but you probably wouldn't remember.

I was on a solo bike tour, heading to Bloomington IN where my kid was
soon to finish college. ("Dad, you've been talking about riding your
bike here. This is your last chance.")

I was on a nice, empty, flat four lane highway heading due west, and
feeling good because I was cranking along nicely at 20 mph despite my
full camping load.

Then I hit a bump in the pavement. After that, I heard some new noise
from my bike, and to my dismay my speed dropped about a mile per hour.

I remember checking for dragging brakes by squeezing the levers and
looking at the brake arms. Nothing. I didn't stop, but I worried
about what damage I had done that was slowing my bike. Then I realized
the bump had caused my generator to click on. I clicked it off and my
speed returned.

So at the power output needed for 20 mph, putting on the generator
slowed me to maybe 19 mph. This was with a bottom bracket generator,
but I haven't seen any real difference with a bottle dyno as I set
them up. And note, this matches Chris Juden's numbers that John
alluded to. Let me know if you need a link.

As always: Sorry for introducing real numbers into a discussion.

- Frank Krygowski

Hmm, you saying that your speed dropped from 20-19 mph in uncontrolled conditions are real numbers?

Those were the numbers I experienced. A dead flat four lane road with no
traffic is a fairly simple test situation. And again, it was at least
roughly corroborated by tests I've done and others have done.

Do you have different numbers?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 8:00:21 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/15/2020 3:16 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 5:30:59 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 7:40:02 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 11:23:24 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 14 February 2020 12:00:11 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2020 5:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 2:36:58 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:

Own Data? You mean like your assertions that a cheap Chinese
flashlight is a perfect bicycle head light? ...

I have taken Steven's word at the effectiveness of "cheap Chinese flashlights as bicycle lights" and he was completely correct. Sorry if you seem to think that you know anything about anything but you have shown yourself to be a great deal heavier on opinion than knowledge of anything.

You say Mr. Scharf was completely correct when he touted cheap Chinese
flashlights as bike headlights. That was when he said dyno powered
headlights were terrible and foolish.

Problem is, Mr. Scharf is now using dyno powered headlights on his
bikes, and no longer seems to say cheap Chinese flashlights are perfect.

My first question is, was he completely correct back then? Or is he
completely correct now?

My second question regards specific details. My dyno powered LED
headlights illuminate the entire width of the lane, and simultaneously
illuminate stop signs up to a quarter mile away from me, all without
blinding oncoming riders.

The Chinese flashlight I tried could not do that, no matter how I
adjusted the tilt and the focus. It was a truly crappy headlight. What,
specifically, does yours do? What's its brand and model?



--
- Frank Krygowski

Some people use flashlights that have a narrow beam but good range. Those lights might be okay as a be seen light but they don't light up much of the road. Others use flashlights with adjustable focus that spread the beams to light of more of the road. the trouble is that when they do that they lose the range they need if riding in totally dark conditions with no city lights.

I really like my CygoLite Rover II light as it does light up the two lanes of the country roads around here and it does so no matter what speed I'm riding at. Also, I can move the battery and light unit from bike to bike easily. I do wish it had a bit more range. For that reason I was considering getting the Centauri or Trident. Dynamo lights simply don't meet my needs.

Cheers

I think that there was a GCN video of a rim driven dynamo light and it was pretty funny because it was just like I remembered it as a kid. As you pushed the pedal down you would get a light and as you were changing over to the opposite the bike would stop from the massive resistance of a 30 watt dynamo. If Frank really uses those things he must ride a bike with a triple and a 26 to 42 gear ratio.

Tom, you have a problem confusing fantasy with reality.

Let me describe a spontaneous, unplanned dynamo test I did once. I've
described it before, but you probably wouldn't remember.

I was on a solo bike tour, heading to Bloomington IN where my kid was
soon to finish college. ("Dad, you've been talking about riding your
bike here. This is your last chance.")

I was on a nice, empty, flat four lane highway heading due west, and
feeling good because I was cranking along nicely at 20 mph despite my
full camping load.

Then I hit a bump in the pavement. After that, I heard some new noise
from my bike, and to my dismay my speed dropped about a mile per hour.

I remember checking for dragging brakes by squeezing the levers and
looking at the brake arms. Nothing. I didn't stop, but I worried
about what damage I had done that was slowing my bike. Then I realized
the bump had caused my generator to click on. I clicked it off and my
speed returned.

So at the power output needed for 20 mph, putting on the generator
slowed me to maybe 19 mph. This was with a bottom bracket generator,
but I haven't seen any real difference with a bottle dyno as I set
them up. And note, this matches Chris Juden's numbers that John
alluded to. Let me know if you need a link.

As always: Sorry for introducing real numbers into a discussion.

- Frank Krygowski

Hmm, you saying that your speed dropped from 20-19 mph in uncontrolled conditions are real numbers?

Those were the numbers I experienced. A dead flat four lane road with no
traffic is a fairly simple test situation. And again, it was at least
roughly corroborated by tests I've done and others have done.

Do you have different numbers?


--
- Frank Krygowski

It is crappy research Frank, you should know that. Maybe a tad better than saying 'these brakes are better' after using them for a longer time. Your real speed could went from 19.6 mph to 18.6 mph or from 19.6 mph to 19.4 mph.. Who knows. When I was in the market for a dyno hub I wanted the one with the highest efficiency and my choice was based on measurements in a laboratory with real instruments. It is not difficult in these conditions to measure accurately. After my choice I'm not the least interested in numbers anymore and just use the damn thing and not trying to convince/impress others with numbers that don't say anything. When I switch the light on and of a don't notice anything in feel and speed but I have to reach down to switch it on or off which changes the situation so this doesn't anything either, but I know that I go from 6-7 Watt to 0.5-1 Watt turning in on and off.
BTW my good friend who is a skilled and enthusiast brick layer agrees with me.

Lou