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  #91  
Old June 15th 19, 05:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Protecting yourself

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:55:24 +0700, John B.
wrote:

The U.S. exported some 2.5 million tonnes of plastic waste in 2015.
The volume dropped to only 1.07 million tonnes in 2018 primarily due
to China refusing to allow the waste to be imported. (note: Chinese
imports have decreased by some 96% from the 2015 figures)


China didn't exactly ban the import of recyclables. They raised the
contamination percentage requirement from 1.5% to 0.5%, which is
nearly impossible to meet:
https://www.wastedive.com/news/china-contamination-standard-MRFs/519659/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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  #92  
Old June 15th 19, 05:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Protecting yourself

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 22:37:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

But, said my friend, money made by recycling was not taxed.
(Californians may want to chime in on whether that was true - for me,
it's just hearsay.) So the guy spent all his time bicycling around,
collecting roadside aluminum cans to supplement his income.


I don't know, and could not find anything definitive with Google.
However, the continuing decline in the number of recycling centers in
California seems to indicate that recycling is NOT a thriving
business.
"What the Heck Is Up With California’s Recycling Program?"
https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/08/california-recycling-program-fail/
All told, nearly one-third of California’s recycling
centers have gone out of business.
Note that this article is from Aug 2016, well before Trump started his
trade war with China.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #93  
Old June 15th 19, 05:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
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Posts: 1,131
Default Protecting yourself

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 05:48:53 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 07:42:12 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/13/2019 11:12 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 06:19:34 +0700, John B.
wrote:

However I note that as a result of the U.S. presidential ban on some
imports from China the Chinese have, in return, banned the shipment
of most types of plastic waste from the U.S. and Malaysia, Taiwan,
Thailand and Vietnam also are also placing bans on the import of
plastic waste from the U.S.

No sweat. We can ship it to Indianapolis.


It's a difficult problem:
https://www.thebalancesmb.com/recycl...terephthalate-

pet-2877869

labor and energy inputs are high compared to new material.


Here empty PET drink bottles are salable. I see people who harvest
garbage cans collecting large bags fill of them, so apparently recycling
them is a profitable business here.
(a quick look showed nearly 30 PET recycling companies in a country only
slightly larger then the state of California)


It goes back into nurdles and becomes feed stock for new products. It is
all a question of the labour and energy costs n the relevant countries.

  #94  
Old June 15th 19, 05:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Protecting yourself

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 21:27:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 22:37:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

But, said my friend, money made by recycling was not taxed.
(Californians may want to chime in on whether that was true - for me,
it's just hearsay.) So the guy spent all his time bicycling around,
collecting roadside aluminum cans to supplement his income.


I don't know, and could not find anything definitive with Google.
However, the continuing decline in the number of recycling centers in
California seems to indicate that recycling is NOT a thriving business.


It all depends on what industry will pay for the collected goods./rubbish.

In my youth, t was rofitble for various community groups to hold paper
drives, bottle recycling, etc. Now it isn't worth the effort. it costs
far more in fuel then you'll ever get for the product.

The major changes of the massive production of raw materias like
newsprint, lastic nurdles,etc couple with rock bottom international
shipping prices.

Junkyard Planet is a book about the global trade inwste and the economcs
of it. In 1990?, but now all changed with the various countries banning
waste import. Shrug, the rich will not clean and sort their rubbish, so
they now get to keep it.

  #95  
Old June 15th 19, 05:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Protecting yourself

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 21:19:25 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:55:24 +0700, John B.
wrote:

The U.S. exported some 2.5 million tonnes of plastic waste in 2015. The
volume dropped to only 1.07 million tonnes in 2018 primarily due to
China refusing to allow the waste to be imported. (note: Chinese imports
have decreased by some 96% from the 2015 figures)


China didn't exactly ban the import of recyclables. They raised the
contamination percentage requirement from 1.5% to 0.5%, which is nearly
impossible to meet:
https://www.wastedive.com/news/china...tion-standard-

MRFs/519659/

Yep, stupid westerners who can not fathon why pizza boxes are general
waste and not recycables.

OTOH, I don't understand why recyclers demand that I was my water and
time to "wash' every bottles, tin and plastic container, when they could
run a far more efficcent "shred and wash' line,

  #96  
Old June 15th 19, 05:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Protecting yourself

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 07:28:52 -0700, jbeattie wrote:

On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:20:17 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:


However I note that as a result of the U.S. presidential ban on some
imports from China the Chinese have, in return, banned the shipment of
most types of plastic waste from the U.S. and Malaysia, Taiwan,
Thailand and Vietnam also are also placing bans on the import of
plastic waste from the U.S.


Even before the trade war, China was rejecting our recycled plastic --
and even scrap steel. The recyclables market has crashed. With the trade
wars, its crashing more.


My understanding is that at one stage, China was tacking every bit of
scrap metal it coud and now it has a massive stock pile and canonly buy
the best/cheapest.

At one stage, pre WWI, this country was bing ransacked to sell scrap iron
to Japan. That later came back in bombs and bullets. i hope the same does
come about with China. Trump seems to be bent on creating the same
conditions that lead to the Japanese entering WWI in the Pacific yet
again.
  #97  
Old June 15th 19, 07:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Protecting yourself

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 21:19:25 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:55:24 +0700, John B.
wrote:

The U.S. exported some 2.5 million tonnes of plastic waste in 2015.
The volume dropped to only 1.07 million tonnes in 2018 primarily due
to China refusing to allow the waste to be imported. (note: Chinese
imports have decreased by some 96% from the 2015 figures)


China didn't exactly ban the import of recyclables. They raised the
contamination percentage requirement from 1.5% to 0.5%, which is
nearly impossible to meet:
https://www.wastedive.com/news/china-contamination-standard-MRFs/519659/


As of January, 2018, China banned 24 types of imported waste.
The banned list includes:
eight types of post consumer plastic scrap; one type of unsorted scrap
paper; 11 types of used or scrap textile materials; and
four types of metal slag that contain vanadium.

Your reference seems to be concerned with contamination limits on
allowable imports.


--
cheers,

John B.

  #98  
Old June 15th 19, 07:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Protecting yourself

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 21:27:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 22:37:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

But, said my friend, money made by recycling was not taxed.
(Californians may want to chime in on whether that was true - for me,
it's just hearsay.) So the guy spent all his time bicycling around,
collecting roadside aluminum cans to supplement his income.


I don't know, and could not find anything definitive with Google.
However, the continuing decline in the number of recycling centers in
California seems to indicate that recycling is NOT a thriving
business.
"What the Heck Is Up With California’s Recycling Program?"
https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/08/california-recycling-program-fail/
All told, nearly one-third of California’s recycling
centers have gone out of business.
Note that this article is from Aug 2016, well before Trump started his
trade war with China.


A recent news article stated that Chinese companies are considering
building re-cycling plants in the U.S.
https://resource-recycling.com/plast...cycling-plans/

Ecomelida is a subsidiary of Zhangzhou Sanlida Environmental
Technology Corporation, a Chinese operation that imports and processes
scrap fiber and plastic.

South Carolina is our first base in the U.S., company representative
Yang Huang said. We are expecting to build more facilities in the
States in the future.

The company has historically imported scrap materials into China for
processing. Ecomelida recently set its sights on the U.S. for a few
reasons. The recycling system is considered more mature in the U.S.,
Huang said. We should be able to get cheaper and better raw materials
here.

Ecomelida has acquired a roughly 200,000-square foot building on about
45 acres of land. The facility will open with an initial production
capacity of 72,000 metric tons of plastic pellets per year and 36,000
metric tons of pulp. The company plans to scale production up in the
future, Huang said.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #99  
Old June 15th 19, 01:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Protecting yourself

On 6/14/2019 11:50 PM, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 07:28:52 -0700, jbeattie wrote:

On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 4:20:17 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:


However I note that as a result of the U.S. presidential ban on some
imports from China the Chinese have, in return, banned the shipment of
most types of plastic waste from the U.S. and Malaysia, Taiwan,
Thailand and Vietnam also are also placing bans on the import of
plastic waste from the U.S.


Even before the trade war, China was rejecting our recycled plastic --
and even scrap steel. The recyclables market has crashed. With the trade
wars, its crashing more.


My understanding is that at one stage, China was tacking every bit of
scrap metal it coud and now it has a massive stock pile and canonly buy
the best/cheapest.

At one stage, pre WWI, this country was bing ransacked to sell scrap iron
to Japan. That later came back in bombs and bullets. i hope the same does
come about with China. Trump seems to be bent on creating the same
conditions that lead to the Japanese entering WWI in the Pacific yet
again.


You meant the Pacific War probably. In The Great War, Japan
was among the Allies, although AFAIK only antisubmarine
patrols by the Japanese Navy in the Mediterranean.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #100  
Old June 15th 19, 04:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Protecting yourself

On 6/15/2019 12:36 AM, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 21:27:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 22:37:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

But, said my friend, money made by recycling was not taxed.
(Californians may want to chime in on whether that was true - for me,
it's just hearsay.) So the guy spent all his time bicycling around,
collecting roadside aluminum cans to supplement his income.


I don't know, and could not find anything definitive with Google.
However, the continuing decline in the number of recycling centers in
California seems to indicate that recycling is NOT a thriving business.


It all depends on what industry will pay for the collected goods./rubbish.

In my youth, t was rofitble for various community groups to hold paper
drives, bottle recycling, etc. Now it isn't worth the effort. it costs
far more in fuel then you'll ever get for the product.

The major changes of the massive production of raw materias like
newsprint, lastic nurdles,etc couple with rock bottom international
shipping prices.


I've wondered about the overall energy balance of recycling efforts. On
one hand, recycling aluminum uses far less energy (and must certainly
cost less) than refining new aluminum from ore.

At the other extreme, driving your SUV five miles to drop a PET bottle
in a bin is probably a net loss. Most overall recycling processes must
fall between those extremes, but I wonder where the break even point is.

BTW, thanks for the new vocabulary word. I used to be an engineer in a
plastic processing factory, but I never heard the word "nurdle." We
called them pellets.


--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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