Durability tests on the 13 most popular 11-speed chains

Dan Wood, the really useful cyclist in Oregon, has posted an interesting link on another forum.

Lennard Zinn, reporting on durability tests on the 13 most popular 11-speed chains conducted by Wippermann, found the strongest and the weakest chains, and produced a comparative cost per hour chart for ranking them. See it he

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...e-found_504284

Here's a related article on measuring chain wear accurately:

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...urately_504301

Andre Jute
I still won't be buying an 11-speed derailleur gruppo

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:02:21 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
Dan Wood, the really useful cyclist in Oregon, has posted an interesting link on another forum.

Lennard Zinn, reporting on durability tests on the 13 most popular 11-speed chains conducted by Wippermann, found the strongest and the weakest chains, and produced a comparative cost per hour chart for ranking them. See it he

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...e-found_504284

Here's a related article on measuring chain wear accurately:

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...urately_504301

Andre Jute
I still won't be buying an 11-speed derailleur gruppo

Uh, yah. That was in Velo News last issue. Don't you subscribe? BTW, Wippermann always wins the tests it performs. I think this was the second or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.

-- Jay Beattie.

jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:02:21 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:

Lennard Zinn, reporting on durability tests on the 13 most popular
11-speed chains conducted by Wippermann, found the strongest and the
weakest chains, and produced a comparative cost per hour chart for
ranking them. See it he

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...e-found_504284

Here's a related article on measuring chain wear accurately:

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...urately_504301

"After a run-in period, the chain is removed and cleaned with a solvent."
Why a solvent? Which solvent, and how much?
Why not use a bit of light lube on that rag pictured?

I still won't be buying an 11-speed derailleur gruppo

But what might be coming next? Before we know, AJ linking to a lighting test
involving friends-of-bumm?
https://www.rosebikes.de/document/5b...211bd94002.pdf

Or their chain-lube test?
https://www.radfahren.de/test-teile/kettenoele-test/

Uh, yah. That was in Velo News last issue. Don't you subscribe? BTW,
Wippermann always wins the tests it performs. I think this was the second
or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.

The arrogant comments by Shimano or (Rohloff copycats) Campagnolo do not
inspire confidence their testing of other manufacturers' chains would be any
more trustworthy. We need a test involving American lube, US machinery, and
the meanest sand in the world from SE California!

On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 6:23:47 AM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:02:21 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
Dan Wood, the really useful cyclist in Oregon, has posted an interesting link on another forum.

Lennard Zinn, reporting on durability tests on the 13 most popular 11-speed chains conducted by Wippermann, found the strongest and the weakest chains, and produced a comparative cost per hour chart for ranking them. See it he

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...e-found_504284

Here's a related article on measuring chain wear accurately:

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...urately_504301

Andre Jute
I still won't be buying an 11-speed derailleur gruppo

Uh, yah. That was in Velo News last issue.

Nah. I never read even the papers I wrote for; fast way to get ink on your fingers. Anything I need to know someone tells me. Anything I want to know I discover by asking someone who knows.

Don't you subscribe? BTW, Wippermann always wins the tests it performs.

Of course they do. You should read a little history, Jay. The Germans always win. The entire EU is just a mechanism to enrich Germany; its monetary policy, and agricultural policy, in fact every one of its policies are aimed at giving the Germans their own way. You could probably get by by just reading old posts right here on RBT in which Andreas Oehler's name appears every time I complained that his favouritism was simply too blatant.

I think this was the second or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.

Now you tell me? Damn. Because of your slackness, I probably missed the 8-speed chain tests, a serious matter since I use only 8-sp chains, and in fact have a Wippermann Connex chain in my store.

Seriously: Notice the quality of Wippermann's test equipment and compare with that of Schmidt Maschinenbau, Oehler's employer. Notice that Wipperman has an engineer permanently on job to test their chains and the competition's chains. Notice that Wippermann, by your account have three times in the last decade invited an American magazine into their test facility, and presumably others in between.

There's more, but I'll save it for a serious forum; that's already enough to explain why I'm willing to go along with Wippermann three or four times as far as I would go with Oehler. But no, I doubt that my earlier good experience of Connex chains, or the Connex spare I have in my store, will wean me off the KMC chains that are one of the cornerstones of the refined end product of my bicycle's transmission.

-- Jay Beattie.

Andre Jute
If I were paranoid, I'd think you withheld useful information from me on purpose

On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 8:25:10 AM UTC, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:02:21 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:

Lennard Zinn, reporting on durability tests on the 13 most popular
11-speed chains conducted by Wippermann, found the strongest and the
weakest chains, and produced a comparative cost per hour chart for
ranking them. See it he

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...e-found_504284

Here's a related article on measuring chain wear accurately:

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...urately_504301

"After a run-in period, the chain is removed and cleaned with a solvent."
Why a solvent? Which solvent, and how much?

Yes. That struck me too.

Why not use a bit of light lube on that rag pictured?

Why use anything at all? See my opinion about this from when I first read Zinn's report at --
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....2021#msg102021
-- by scrolling down until the second time you see a paragraph numbered "3".

I still won't be buying an 11-speed derailleur gruppo

But what might be coming next? Before we know, AJ linking to a lighting test
involving friends-of-bumm?
https://www.rosebikes.de/document/5b...211bd94002.pdf

No Chinese flash lamps?

Or their chain-lube test?
https://www.radfahren.de/test-teile/kettenoele-test/

The answer to those pricey snake oils is: 1. Get hub gears. 2. Get a Hebie Chainglider. 3. Buy any KMC chain that turns you on. 4. Run the chain for its entire life inside the Chainglider on the factory lube. No muss, no fuss, no dirty hands.

Uh, yah. That was in Velo News last issue. Don't you subscribe? BTW,
Wippermann always wins the tests it performs. I think this was the second
or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.

The arrogant comments by Shimano or (Rohloff copycats) Campagnolo do not
inspire confidence their testing of other manufacturers' chains would be any
more trustworthy. We need a test involving American lube, US machinery, and
the meanest sand in the world from SE California!

See my remarks above about whether lube is at all necessary.

The most vicious sand in the world comes from the Namib Desert. I've been in it, and I've been to Southern California, and the difference is off the chart.

Andre Jute
Connoisseur of deserts: I grew up in one.

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:23:47 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:02:21 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
Dan Wood, the really useful cyclist in Oregon, has posted an interesting link on another forum.

Lennard Zinn, reporting on durability tests on the 13 most popular 11-speed chains conducted by Wippermann, found the strongest and the weakest chains, and produced a comparative cost per hour chart for ranking them. See it he

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...e-found_504284

Here's a related article on measuring chain wear accurately:

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...urately_504301

Andre Jute
I still won't be buying an 11-speed derailleur gruppo

Uh, yah. That was in Velo News last issue. Don't you subscribe? BTW, Wippermann always wins the tests it performs. I think this was the second or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.

-- Jay Beattie.

They always win tests for wear because they're designed to wear the least if cost is no object. Is that hard to understand? All you do is use better materials. If price/performance is the object of the test they don't do that well. All of the Shimano chains are cheap for their wear rate.

On 2/20/2020 6:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:23:47 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
BTW, Wippermann always wins the tests it performs. I think this was the second or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.


They always win tests for wear because they're designed to wear the least if cost is no object. Is that hard to understand? All you do is use better materials. If price/performance is the object of the test they don't do that well. All of the Shimano chains are cheap for their wear rate.


Wipperman may win the tests we read about it performing, but that's
probably due to publication bias, not testing dishonesty.

I'd guess that if Wipperman did a test on their new chain and found it
wore out quicker than the competition's chains, they would improve on
their chain design. This would happen way before the chain was in
production.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 11:35:59 PM UTC, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:23:47 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:02:21 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
Dan Wood, the really useful cyclist in Oregon, has posted an interesting link on another forum.

Lennard Zinn, reporting on durability tests on the 13 most popular 11-speed chains conducted by Wippermann, found the strongest and the weakest chains, and produced a comparative cost per hour chart for ranking them. See it he

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...e-found_504284

Here's a related article on measuring chain wear accurately:

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...urately_504301

Andre Jute
I still won't be buying an 11-speed derailleur gruppo

Uh, yah. That was in Velo News last issue. Don't you subscribe? BTW, Wippermann always wins the tests it performs. I think this was the second or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.

-- Jay Beattie.

They always win tests for wear because they're designed to wear the least if cost is no object. Is that hard to understand? All you do is use better materials. If price/performance is the object of the test they don't do that well. All of the Shimano chains are cheap for their wear rate.

Maybe that's true of the Shimano chains in the test (I wouldn't know -- it's twenty years since I last owned a derailleur bike), but it isn't true of Shimano's chain sets in the Nexus group. I say chain-seta, because I had to buy a new crankset (the chainring is attached to the crank) every time I changed the chain, and that was never at a longer interval than a thousand miles. You can imagine how ****ed-off I was when It dawned on me that the bother and the expense would be a recurring theme.

Andre Jute
I'm an admirer of Shimano, but not of the peripheral components in their Nexus Gruppo.

I get 5-6k on a Shimano 11 speed and since I run Shimano the all Shimano drivetrain shifts the best. Cheap and work really why buy any other. I do like wipperman connex they got the quick link figured out the best.

Deacon mark cleary

On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 10:35:16 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
I get 5-6k on a Shimano 11 speed and since I run Shimano the all Shimano drivetrain shifts the best. Cheap and work really why buy any other. I do like wipperman connex they got the quick link figured out the best.

Deacon mark cleary

I agree pretty much with you but don't think that any other 11 speed chain isn't equally interchangeable and that all of them have the lift section of the links properly accomplished.