Upper Body Muscle Atrophy

45 yo, 4 months back into cycling after 20 years. Heavy drinking and
cigarette free for about same period. 203- 193 lbs.

Riding 60-80 miles a week. About 16 mph on flats. I battle hills in
such a way that my legs are usually pumped after a ride.

My legs have undergone a rather astonishing transformation. Thighs and
calves clearly responding; but seemingly simultaneously, my upper body
muscles--especially arms--have atrophied. It's like muscle tissue is
being transferred from top to bottom. Thoughts?
Dave

DaveH wrote:
:: 45 yo, 4 months back into cycling after 20 years. Heavy drinking and
:: cigarette free for about same period. 203- 193 lbs.
::
:: Riding 60-80 miles a week. About 16 mph on flats. I battle hills in
:: such a way that my legs are usually pumped after a ride.
::
:: My legs have undergone a rather astonishing transformation. Thighs
:: and calves clearly responding; but seemingly simultaneously, my
:: upper body muscles--especially arms--have atrophied. It's like
:: muscle tissue is being transferred from top to bottom. Thoughts?

Yes, get yourself to the gym and start lifting. Muscle tissue isn't being
transfered, but if, by virtue of your cycling, you are creating a calorie
deficit, and you are not doing any resistance work for your upper body, then
you body will use your muscle tissue as food for energy (so fat too, btw).
The proper response is to eat adequate protein and do resistance training
for your upper body (actually, as a recreation rider, you really should do a
full-body routine). That regular and consistent resistance against your
muscle will send a message to your body to NOT eat the muscle tissue for
fuel (since that muscle is needed in your day-to-day activities) if you
maintain a caloric deficit. Fat will be used moreso than muscle.

If you don't want to go to a gym, you can get some free weights and an
adjustable bench, or if that is not possible, just start doing bodyweight
exercises like pushups, chinups/pullups, dips between chairs, etc.

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:48:26 -0400, DaveH
wrote:

my upper body
muscles--especially arms--have atrophied. It's like muscle tissue is
being transferred from top to bottom. Thoughts?

try mountain biking... that will solve the problem. :-)

charlie

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:04:23 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

DaveH wrote:
:: 45 yo, 4 months back into cycling after 20 years. Heavy drinking and
:: cigarette free for about same period. 203- 193 lbs.
::
:: Riding 60-80 miles a week. About 16 mph on flats. I battle hills in
:: such a way that my legs are usually pumped after a ride.
::
:: My legs have undergone a rather astonishing transformation. Thighs
:: and calves clearly responding; but seemingly simultaneously, my
:: upper body muscles--especially arms--have atrophied. It's like
:: muscle tissue is being transferred from top to bottom. Thoughts?

Yes, get yourself to the gym and start lifting. Muscle tissue isn't being
transfered, but if, by virtue of your cycling, you are creating a calorie
deficit, and you are not doing any resistance work for your upper body, then
you body will use your muscle tissue as food for energy (so fat too, btw).
The proper response is to eat adequate protein and do resistance training
for your upper body (actually, as a recreation rider, you really should do a
full-body routine). That regular and consistent resistance against your
muscle will send a message to your body to NOT eat the muscle tissue for
fuel (since that muscle is needed in your day-to-day activities) if you
maintain a caloric deficit. Fat will be used moreso than muscle.

If you don't want to go to a gym, you can get some free weights and an
adjustable bench, or if that is not possible, just start doing bodyweight
exercises like pushups, chinups/pullups, dips between chairs, etc.
Thanks for this response Roger. I suspected that which you've clearly
explained. I've been getting adequate protein but alas, no upper
workout. I was a fairly serious power lifter in my teens and 20's.

It really is interesting, though, the body's response. Exactly as you
describe. An exception to the upper body loss is my stomach muscles
which are clearly being worked during vigorous cycling.

hey Roger, I just wanted to say thanks for the line:
"actually, as a recreation rider, you really should do a full-body routine"

I ride about the same as this guy, maybe 120KM a week going to school and
back and such, and I've been toying with the idea of using the free gym at
the university. The arguement against it being "i get enough excercise
already", but I see how some full body training would be necessary to be
overall in-shape, not just legs

Mike

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 02:20:23 GMT, Charles Beristain
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:48:26 -0400, DaveH
wrote:

my upper body
muscles--especially arms--have atrophied. It's like muscle tissue is
being transferred from top to bottom. Thoughts?

try mountain biking... that will solve the problem. :-)

charlie
Really? Why?

"Mike Beauchamp" wrote in message
...
I ride about the same as this guy, maybe 120KM a week going to school and
back and such, and I've been toying with the idea of using the free gym at
the university. The arguement against it being "i get enough excercise
already", but I see how some full body training would be necessary to be
overall in-shape, not just legs

Mike

Yep, I ride a lot but also go to the gym 2-3x a week for upper body and ab
workout, and everything stays in pretty good balance. Having some
upper-body strength helps on the bike, I think (plus it looks much better
than the alternative!)

Emily

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:06:47 -0400, DaveH
wrote:

Really? Why?

mountain biking requires lots of upper body.. unless one is just
riding fire roads, etc. Downhill requires the most upper body. A day
of riding the lifts up the mountain and freeriding down will have the
arm muscles burning. Racing X/C will do the same. big side loads
require pushing back on the handlebars to keep the front wheel on a
line.

charlie

DaveH wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:04:23 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:
Yes, get yourself to the gym and start lifting. Muscle tissue isn't being
transfered, but if, by virtue of your cycling, you are creating a calorie
deficit, and you are not doing any resistance work for your upper body, then
you body will use your muscle tissue as food for energy (so fat too, btw).
The proper response is to eat adequate protein and do resistance training
for your upper body (actually, as a recreation rider, you really should do a
full-body routine). That regular and consistent resistance against your
muscle will send a message to your body to NOT eat the muscle tissue for
fuel (since that muscle is needed in your day-to-day activities) if you
maintain a caloric deficit. Fat will be used moreso than muscle.

Not if you go into starvation mode. Then muscle will be consumed
preferential to fat.

If you don't want to go to a gym, you can get some free weights and an
adjustable bench, or if that is not possible, just start doing bodyweight
exercises like pushups, chinups/pullups, dips between chairs, etc.
Thanks for this response Roger. I suspected that which you've clearly
explained. I've been getting adequate protein but alas, no upper
workout. I was a fairly serious power lifter in my teens and 20's.

It really is interesting, though, the body's response. Exactly as you
describe. An exception to the upper body loss is my stomach muscles
which are clearly being worked during vigorous cycling.

"Adaptation". Your body is constantly taking a little
here and putting it there. Fat folks have adapted to the
world they create with their energy inputs and outputs.
Corporations have learned to farm the retail food
environment to encourage fat folks to become constant
eaters. Some say intentionally, because we're far too
knowledgeable about nutrition for top scientists at a
company like McDonald's not to know what's going on in
menu design.

But that's not my point.

My point is, look at your diet carefully. Make sure you're
getting enough protein to hold your whole body lean mass
up. And make sure you're getting enough calories so that
you don't go into "starvation mode." In starvation mode,
your body will eat muscle to lower your metabolosm so it
can save fat (so you can survive the famine and migration
it thinks you've entered into; it doesn't care if you're
buff, it only cares that you live a few more days and get a
chance to find food). N.B.: at 20% body fat and 180 lbs,
a human has enough stored lipids to stay alive for about
8 weeks; eating your muscles extends that by quite a lot.

The upper-body exercise advice is excellent. I'm 41 and
after a 12 year break got back on my bike two months ago.
I had already been at about a 500-calorie deficit and
losing 1 lb a week right on schedule, but the added
500-1000 calories per day of exercise (I was riding 7 days
a week except when I hiked or golfed) kicked me right over
the 800-1000 calorie deficit threshold and into starvation
mode. My deltoids deflated and my spare tire got bulbous.

I immediately added protein supplements to my diet, but it
took a few days to run into "starvation mode" on the net
and realize that I needed to be more conscientious about
my calorie level overall and my protein/carbohydrate/fat
ratios and composition.

Now I'm on about a 2500-3000 cal/day diet, taking 150-180
grams of protein (food plus powder), still riding and
still progressing*, but I'm working out my upper body
hard at the gym 2-3 days a week with cycling in between
(I think I've missed maybe 3 days with no solid exercise).

My weight is 4 lbs below the day I started back on my
bike (7/22), but my muscle mass is up. I wish I'd used
a caliper the whole time (I'm buying one on the way home
today) so I could tell for sure how the bodyfat loss is
going, but it has to be down significantly because my
thighs are as big as ever and rock hard, and my delts are
bigger than before.

I think I'm going to pare my diet another 200 calories and
see if the fat doesn't start to go faster. It's hard to do,
because I eyeball everything. So I need to start tracking
the inputs assiduously.

--Blair
"I can talk your ear off about
this stuff. That's worth about
80 calories of dead weight right
there."

* - First day out, I did a 4.2-mile loop in about 22
minutes (~11 mph) and could not climb the stairs without
pulling on the railing afterward. 1 month later, my
goal was 56 minutes for 4 laps of that loop. Tuesday,
I clocked 50:15 for those 4 laps, and turned in my first
20-mph average over my 16.8-mile TT. This morning I
might have gone under 50:00, but my lower back got real
tight on the third lap and then I miscalculated the split
time and added a minute to it and figured I should go
in before the muscle siezed. If I'd known it was 12:44
instead of 13:44, you can bet your ass I would've just let
that thing knot up and bought myself a massage at lunch.

BTW, the AZ state record for 12.5-mile TT is 20.7 mph--
for women 55-60! For men 40-45 it's 28.3 over 25 miles.
So I figure I got some work to do before I can show my
face in a race 'round hyar...

DaveH wrote in message . ..
45 yo, 4 months back into cycling after 20 years. Heavy drinking and
cigarette free for about same period. 203- 193 lbs.

Riding 60-80 miles a week. About 16 mph on flats. I battle hills in
such a way that my legs are usually pumped after a ride.

My legs have undergone a rather astonishing transformation. Thighs and
calves clearly responding; but seemingly simultaneously, my upper body
muscles--especially arms--have atrophied. It's like muscle tissue is
being transferred from top to bottom. Thoughts?
Dave


If you have been sedentary and then started a regular and not
excessive program of cycling or running, you will loose fat in
addition to gaining muscle. Perhaps it is not arm muscle that has
atrophied but arm fat? Is your arm strength weaker than it was 4
months ago?

Anyways, kudos on the success of your program. Keep it up.