The Election Results

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:18:01 -0500, dgk
wrote:

What does that have to do with deception, lies, unprovoked warfare, and
pandering to corporate interests?

Why do you hate America?

So you think that deception, lies, unprovoked warfare, and pandering
to corporate interests are inherent to American politics and no
candidate will move away from them, unless you love these evils you
cannot love America? That's a bleak viewpoint you have there...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Todd Kuzma wrote:
Hunrobe wrote:

Speaking of majorities, whether one voted for Bush or Kerry we can all
be glad
that at least this time around it looks like there won't be any conflict
between the beauty contest (popular) and real (electoral) vote. No
matter your
political philosophy you have to admit the Framers were pretty darn
smart. The
system they devised still works after 200+ years.


If the definition of "still works" is that the electoral college agrees
with the popular vote, why not just use the populat vote. This year
showed one of the ugly sides of the electoral college: the entire
campaign was conducted in only 10 states. Essentially, the residents of
the other 40 states were not included in the process.


....for which you should all be grateful

Scott, weary survivor of a battleground state (WI)

Todd Kuzma wrote:

If the definition of "still works" is that the electoral college agrees
with the popular vote, why not just use the populat vote. This year
showed one of the ugly sides of the electoral college: the entire
campaign was conducted in only 10 states. Essentially, the residents of
the other 40 states were not included in the process.

If by "not included in the process," you mean not subjected to the months on
months of constant mud slinging by candidates, parties, and other groups,
then I'm all for not being included next time, as long as I still get to
vote (as they did).

Austin (from a battleground state)
--
I'm pedaling as fast as I durn well please!
There are no X characters in my address

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:18:01 -0500, dgk wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:03:53 GMT, maxo wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:32:26 -0600, di wrote:

To help you with your problem, all you have to do is take a good look
at the history of America, it was built on hard work, morals, and
individual commitment and initiative

What does that have to do with deception, lies, unprovoked warfare, and
pandering to corporate interests?

Why do you hate America?

rofl, didn't see it coming!

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:10 +0000, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:



So you think that deception, lies, unprovoked warfare, and pandering to
corporate interests are inherent to American politics and no candidate
will move away from them, unless you love these evils you cannot love
America? That's a bleak viewpoint you have there...

Guy


Noo, the response "Why do you hate America?" is kind of a non-sequiter
code phrase adopted by the wry left to make fun of right-wingers.

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 02:31:18 +1100, Weisse Luft wrote:


marxo, you need to drink more grape kool aid. No, it doesn't taste funny.

no it doesn't, buth ith makth my mouth numb...

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:10 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:18:01 -0500, dgk
wrote:

What does that have to do with deception, lies, unprovoked warfare, and
pandering to corporate interests?

Why do you hate America?

So you think that deception, lies, unprovoked warfare, and pandering
to corporate interests are inherent to American politics and no
candidate will move away from them, unless you love these evils you
cannot love America? That's a bleak viewpoint you have there...

Guy

It was a joke, sort of what gets said to anyone who points out that
there are certain problems in corporate capitalism. But I do think
that both parties are just two sides of corporate capitalism and that,
in fact, Nader would be my favored choice. However there are still
large differences between the Democrats and Republicans so I voted for
Kerry.

psycholist wrote:

I have to figure you people who whine about all this liberal crap
aren't really out there living in the real world. Have we had
another 9/11 type of attack since 9/11? NO!

When I ride my bike, I always wear my favorite black shorts because, for as
long as I have worn them, my wife has never been bitten by a shark while
swimming in the ocean.

When that attack
happened, the stock market tanked. Why? Because everyone expected
the economy to completely tank. Did it? NO! Bush took decisive
action that restored confidence.

Standing at Ground Zero with a bullhorn?

I own a business and I employ 30
people. If you'd have told me a week after 9/11 that my business ...
a run-of-the-mill sheet metal manufacturing business ... would be
prospering as it has been the last few years, I'd have said you're
nuts. But the fact is, I'm having record sales and have been for
quite some time now. The fact is, I can't find enough qualified
people to get all the orders out the door that I have. The fact is
that all my customers, regardless of the category of business they're
in and regardless of region of the country, are prospering and are
placing huge demands on us to expedite orders as fast as we possibly
can.

Um . . . ok. My sincere congratulations.

As for health care, the FACT is that George W. Bush was instrumental
in instituting a groundbreaking program that has more potential to
reform health care than anything anyone else, including Hillary, has
put forth. It's called Health Care Savings Accounts. They saved the
medical insurance program at my company and my employees love it.
The media hasn't given HSAs much attention 'cuz they don't want to
give Bush any credit. Do a little homework on the concept rather
than spouting all the liberal drivel you hear. It's a great program.
It doesn't solve all the medical insurance issues, but it's a
fantastic start.

I happen to know of about 45 million people who wouldn't particularly agree
with you.

Now what really needs to be worked on is the damned lawyers. We so
desperately need tort reform it's ridiculous. Do you think Kerry and
Edwards were gonna take that on? HA!

So . . . I still don't know exactly what your company does, but it seems you
use some hazardous chemicals in the process. Did you see /Erin Brockovich/?
That's just a (Hollywood liberal) example, but . . . stuff like that really
happens. Tobacco companies /really do/ spike nicotine levels. Companies
really do put out products that they know are dangerous, either because they
don't entirely care or because the judgments that they *may* have to pay are
just a line-item in the pro-forma.

What happened to the true conservatives who believed in the free market??
How is tort reform compatible with free-market theory?? Who holds the
physician accountable for negligence that's exacerbated by the avarice that
has them seeing three times as many patients in a day as they probably
should??

You liberals need to go live in the real world for a while. You need
to STOP riding your bikes and go do something meaningful like try to
start and run a business.

Fair point, though certainly pejoratively phrased. And you business owners
need to lose your health care once, and experience concern about a troubling
medical issue for which you can't afford quality health care . . . or listen
to a CEO telling you to invest in the stock of your company while he's
selling his (because /he/ knows something that /you/ don't).

Try to employ and insure people. Try to
tiptoe around all the laws and regulations that exist already to
protect people who really don't want to work and who really don't
want to be accountable to anybody for anything.

If believing that helps you sleep at night, then by all means you should
continue to believe it, but realize: that's the only utility of a position
like that.

Bush has attempted
to clear away some of that crap so American businesses can be viable
again.

You'll notice that I've refrained from the wholesale disparaging of American
Business in the same self-serving way as you've damned American's poor and
uninsured. Believe me, it's a bit of an effort.

My business is in the great Democratic state of Minnesota ... one of
the most liberal in the nation. We got a small detection of a
chemical in our well back in 1999. It was barely above detection and
health concern limits. In swept the Minnesota Pollution Control
Agency. We've gone through 5 years of borings, samplings, lab tests,
reports, consultant fees, etc. We've spent well over $150,000. Just
2 weeks ago, after 5 years of all this crap, they issued us a letter
saying they've determined that no action is necessary. But they
dragged it out and dragged it out ... all the while invoicing my
little 30-person company at the rate of $120 per hour for their
engineers to second-guess everything the consultants they forced me
to hire had done. It was extortion -- pure and simple.

Did I ask you if you've seen /Erin Brockovich/? Maybe it was a federal
agency that didn't want you to conduct /your/ business at the expense of
innocent children having to drink toxic chemicals. Never forget: your right
to swing your fist extends where my face begins. You're hurting others when
you dump toxic chemicals into the environment. "Barely above
detection/health concern limits" is tantamount to barely "pregnant."

And if I
didn't go along with it, they'd turn our case over to the Superfund.
That's the kind of crap you get with democrats.

Clean water, fresh air, food that won't grow three legs on our children??
F**king ******* Democrats. Let's get 'em!

That was more money
than our company made in profit over those years. That was money
right out of our employees pockets and right out of our capital
expansion program. The only people who benefited were the
bureaucrats working for the MPCA.

I'm terribly sorry, but I'm not terribly sorry. You don't get to grow your
business at the expense of other people's health. I know it sounds unfair,
and imposes a tremendous burden on you, but . . . you're not alone in this
world.

So lets get real and quit spouting the liberal media spin/hype. It's
such bull****.

Bob C.

Can you, for just a second, try to see it as Democrats do? No? Ok, well .
.. . I tried.

Best of luck with your company, Bob. Please don't make me drink your
caustic chemicals. I'm trying to take care of myself, other humans, and the
Earth.

On 2004-11-03, neil0502 wrote:
So lets get real and quit spouting the liberal media spin/hype. It's
such bull****.

Bob C.

Can you, for just a second, try to see it as Democrats do? No? Ok, well .
. . I tried.

Best of luck with your company, Bob. Please don't make me drink your
caustic chemicals. I'm trying to take care of myself, other humans, and the
Earth.

This is why this country is so so very screwed. The division in this
country is real. And people like Bob will use their dislike of our side to
pound us into the ground now that they have the majority.

Preston
Looking for a new country to live in

psycholist wrote:

You liberals need to go live in the real world for a while. You need to
STOP riding your bikes and go do something meaningful like try to start and
run a business. Try to employ and insure people.

What makes you think that liberals don't do that? I started
a business and still own it today. I have employees. I'm a
liberal. Most of my employees have made more money in my
business than I have because I believe that they should have
a fair wage. I could have paid minimum wage and employed
fewer people to fill my own pocket some more, but I don't
think like that. When the economy weakens and sales dip, I
take the hit in my pocketbook, not my employees.

Todd Kuzma
Heron Bicycles
Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery
LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776
http://www.heronbicycles.com
http://www.tullios.com