"Confusion reigns as states reverse course on 'essential' status forbike shops"

On 4/10/2020 8:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I ask you, please, make an honest statement. You do not like the man.
Which is fine, you're welcome to your opinion and at least one person
here (me) will not call you names for that.Â* I don't much like him
myself, but he's done a very good job.

Andrew, I'd like proof you're not in a mirror image position. Despite
you allusions to the contrary, I don't see you saying but positive
remarks about Trump. For example, "done a very good job" regarding the
virus? That's ludicrous.

For the longest time, every relevant move and statement was, as usual,
off the top of his head with no reference to the scientific knowledge of
the time. If he guessed right about banning China travel, it was because
of the way his Pick Up Sticks fell that morning. In general, his
management performance since his election has been a **** show. His
administration churns staff faster than his television show churned cast
members. Its generated a modern record for convictions, even though he's
squeaked out of conviction himself only because the party he's
commandeered has lost all moral courage.

Yes, there is a LOT to "not like" about Trump.
https://bergensia.com/someone-asked-...-donald-trump/
By contrast, Hillary Clinton was as sweet as a kindergarten teacher -
but the right wing complained endlessly that she was not likeable.
("Gawd, she wears pants suits!") As usual, what's terrible in the
opposition is negligible (or even a virtue) in one's own party.

Governors who ordered shutdowns ought to be shot in the
street. (I'm looking at you, Mike DeWine, as I never expected anything
sensible from the local party hack.)

1) "Shot in the street"? Andrew, that's over the top. Control your rhetoric.

2) Ohio's COVID cases are _way_ lower than comparable states.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...288_story.html

If all you care about is economic activity, you may not like that. But
economic activity can be trashed by widespread illness too. How's Italy
doing lately?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 10:59:48 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:28:12 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 8:47:42 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2020 10:33 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one.. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g..,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science)..

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/


I read a compilation of recent abstracts last evening which
seem to indicate that some people, not distinguished by age,
obesity, prior heart/lung/circulatory impairment etc react
dramatically to this infection with a massive cytokine
cascade. That inflammation rapidly impairs breathing, allows
teh virus to replicate faster and can be a deathly downward
spiral. For those people the hydrocholorquine can reduce
inflammation while teh Azithromycin acts against
opportunistic bacterial infection (a commonly fatal
complication of influenza) where present.

Yes, and there was similar literature for SARS and MERS. As for the action of Chloroquine, see https://aac.asm.org/content/aac/53/8/3416.full.pdf I think the recent investigations are looking more at its anti-viral effect than its anti-inflammatory effect, which looks like it has been studied a lot already in connection with various inflammatory diseases.

The various HIV therapies in testing are antivirals and some
seem more effective than others for this particular virus.
Sadly, the people in the group above are at serious risk of
death in short order before these antivirals can be effective.

So, both approaches seem valid for different groups for
different reasons. As always, we'll know more in a couple
of years; these are early reports.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763982
And there is the antibody work being done, too.

There are actual real scientists out there doing this work 24/7, many of them for NIH, CDC, state governments and liberal scum Universities across the nation. And then the great titans of industry, on whose shoulders we rest, are also looking for answers -- and patents (and often relying on the liberal scum universities). https://www.drugtargetreview.com/art...virus-vaccine/ The scientific swamp seems to be doing just fine. It's the governments that are flailing.

-- Jay Beattie.

At what point in time are you going to cease and desist in telling us that your references make you some sort of expert?

But Tom, like you, I am a genius and am an expert in immunology, virology, cellular biology, medicine and Googling. Unlike you, though, I have access to LEXIS and a vast medical journal data base. I can plug in search terms and bring up all the recent literature, most of which is wrong according to the voices in my head, but those so-called PhDs wrote them and think they know everything. I tell PhDs what to do every day, and write them letters and leave phone messages.


In case you are unaware of it the pharmaceutical companies without the scum liberal universities came up with a number of different vaccines within weeks. FDA long term testing keeps these from being released. The FDA testing processes are totally responsible and cannot be rushed. And it is 22 different pharmaceutical companies and not 15. Tell us again about Big Pharma like any 12 year old with a moronic teacher like Frank.

I actually know quite a bit about Big Pharma and the FDA approval process being that I represent Big Pharma and device manufacturers. My father also worked for them (Parke-Davis and Eli Lilly), and my uncle was CEO/chairman of Pfizer -- he bought both Viagra and Rogaine to the market, your two maintenance drugs. And Mr. Brainiac, a casual Google search shows the first trials are of a vaccine developed by the slacker swamp NIAID and manufactured by a private company -- the usual public private collaboration. But I'm sure you knew all that. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...ovid-19-begins

Let's get together and call ourselves an institute!

-- Jay Beattie.

Then you should have the least problem telling us what "Big Parma" is. I'll wait for you to get your thoughts together. Do you suppose that will happen within my lifetime?

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 08:35:30 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 19:30:52 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


I ask you, please, make an honest statement. You do not like the man.

Basically, I've never expected pealrs of wisdom ffrom his lips.


Which is fine, you're welcome to your opinion and at least one person
here (me) will not call you names for that. I don't much like him
myself, but he's done a very good job.

Quickly name another head of state who banned travel from China in
January

Bummer, Slomo did it for Feb 1st, but then he isn't called "too little-
too late" for nothing

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...-slams-us-ban-
as-
who-warns-local-outbreaks/11921416

You are a foreigner in a foreign land.

Oooh, first alien contact.

Perhaps you can tell us what
business it is of yours what leader we elect if he isn't making war on
you?

Wow, those aliens are one lot of DFs.

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 4:14:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 10:59:48 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:28:12 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 8:47:42 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2020 10:33 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e..g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/


I read a compilation of recent abstracts last evening which
seem to indicate that some people, not distinguished by age,
obesity, prior heart/lung/circulatory impairment etc react
dramatically to this infection with a massive cytokine
cascade. That inflammation rapidly impairs breathing, allows
teh virus to replicate faster and can be a deathly downward
spiral. For those people the hydrocholorquine can reduce
inflammation while teh Azithromycin acts against
opportunistic bacterial infection (a commonly fatal
complication of influenza) where present.

Yes, and there was similar literature for SARS and MERS. As for the action of Chloroquine, see https://aac.asm.org/content/aac/53/8/3416.full..pdf I think the recent investigations are looking more at its anti-viral effect than its anti-inflammatory effect, which looks like it has been studied a lot already in connection with various inflammatory diseases.

The various HIV therapies in testing are antivirals and some
seem more effective than others for this particular virus.
Sadly, the people in the group above are at serious risk of
death in short order before these antivirals can be effective.

So, both approaches seem valid for different groups for
different reasons. As always, we'll know more in a couple
of years; these are early reports.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763982
And there is the antibody work being done, too.

There are actual real scientists out there doing this work 24/7, many of them for NIH, CDC, state governments and liberal scum Universities across the nation. And then the great titans of industry, on whose shoulders we rest, are also looking for answers -- and patents (and often relying on the liberal scum universities). https://www.drugtargetreview.com/art...virus-vaccine/ The scientific swamp seems to be doing just fine. It's the governments that are flailing.

-- Jay Beattie.

At what point in time are you going to cease and desist in telling us that your references make you some sort of expert?

But Tom, like you, I am a genius and am an expert in immunology, virology, cellular biology, medicine and Googling. Unlike you, though, I have access to LEXIS and a vast medical journal data base. I can plug in search terms and bring up all the recent literature, most of which is wrong according to the voices in my head, but those so-called PhDs wrote them and think they know everything. I tell PhDs what to do every day, and write them letters and leave phone messages.


In case you are unaware of it the pharmaceutical companies without the scum liberal universities came up with a number of different vaccines within weeks. FDA long term testing keeps these from being released. The FDA testing processes are totally responsible and cannot be rushed. And it is 22 different pharmaceutical companies and not 15. Tell us again about Big Pharma like any 12 year old with a moronic teacher like Frank.

I actually know quite a bit about Big Pharma and the FDA approval process being that I represent Big Pharma and device manufacturers. My father also worked for them (Parke-Davis and Eli Lilly), and my uncle was CEO/chairman of Pfizer -- he bought both Viagra and Rogaine to the market, your two maintenance drugs. And Mr. Brainiac, a casual Google search shows the first trials are of a vaccine developed by the slacker swamp NIAID and manufactured by a private company -- the usual public private collaboration. But I'm sure you knew all that. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...ovid-19-begins

Let's get together and call ourselves an institute!

-- Jay Beattie.

Then you should have the least problem telling us what "Big Parma" is. I'll wait for you to get your thoughts together. Do you suppose that will happen within my lifetime?

"Big Parma" is a giant Italian multi-national that tried to corner the prosciutto market in 1988. It ended in disaster due to a crash of the prosciutto futures market. It's documented he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLySXTIBS3c

Are you still alive? If so, there you go.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 4:39:09 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 08:35:30 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 19:30:52 -0500, AMuzi wrote:


I ask you, please, make an honest statement. You do not like the man.

Basically, I've never expected pealrs of wisdom ffrom his lips.


Which is fine, you're welcome to your opinion and at least one person
here (me) will not call you names for that. I don't much like him
myself, but he's done a very good job.

Quickly name another head of state who banned travel from China in
January

Bummer, Slomo did it for Feb 1st, but then he isn't called "too little-
too late" for nothing

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...-slams-us-ban-
as-
who-warns-local-outbreaks/11921416

You are a foreigner in a foreign land.

Oooh, first alien contact.

Perhaps you can tell us what
business it is of yours what leader we elect if he isn't making war on
you?

Wow, those aliens are one lot of DFs.

I fully expected you to change the subject and surely enough you did.

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 4:14:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 10:59:48 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:28:12 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 8:47:42 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2020 10:33 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop.. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president.. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/


I read a compilation of recent abstracts last evening which
seem to indicate that some people, not distinguished by age,
obesity, prior heart/lung/circulatory impairment etc react
dramatically to this infection with a massive cytokine
cascade. That inflammation rapidly impairs breathing, allows
teh virus to replicate faster and can be a deathly downward
spiral. For those people the hydrocholorquine can reduce
inflammation while teh Azithromycin acts against
opportunistic bacterial infection (a commonly fatal
complication of influenza) where present.

Yes, and there was similar literature for SARS and MERS. As for the action of Chloroquine, see https://aac.asm.org/content/aac/53/8/3416.full.pdf I think the recent investigations are looking more at its anti-viral effect than its anti-inflammatory effect, which looks like it has been studied a lot already in connection with various inflammatory diseases.

The various HIV therapies in testing are antivirals and some
seem more effective than others for this particular virus.
Sadly, the people in the group above are at serious risk of
death in short order before these antivirals can be effective.

So, both approaches seem valid for different groups for
different reasons. As always, we'll know more in a couple
of years; these are early reports.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763982
And there is the antibody work being done, too.

There are actual real scientists out there doing this work 24/7, many of them for NIH, CDC, state governments and liberal scum Universities across the nation. And then the great titans of industry, on whose shoulders we rest, are also looking for answers -- and patents (and often relying on the liberal scum universities). https://www.drugtargetreview.com/art...virus-vaccine/ The scientific swamp seems to be doing just fine. It's the governments that are flailing.

-- Jay Beattie.

At what point in time are you going to cease and desist in telling us that your references make you some sort of expert?

But Tom, like you, I am a genius and am an expert in immunology, virology, cellular biology, medicine and Googling. Unlike you, though, I have access to LEXIS and a vast medical journal data base. I can plug in search terms and bring up all the recent literature, most of which is wrong according to the voices in my head, but those so-called PhDs wrote them and think they know everything. I tell PhDs what to do every day, and write them letters and leave phone messages.


In case you are unaware of it the pharmaceutical companies without the scum liberal universities came up with a number of different vaccines within weeks. FDA long term testing keeps these from being released. The FDA testing processes are totally responsible and cannot be rushed. And it is 22 different pharmaceutical companies and not 15. Tell us again about Big Pharma like any 12 year old with a moronic teacher like Frank.

I actually know quite a bit about Big Pharma and the FDA approval process being that I represent Big Pharma and device manufacturers. My father also worked for them (Parke-Davis and Eli Lilly), and my uncle was CEO/chairman of Pfizer -- he bought both Viagra and Rogaine to the market, your two maintenance drugs. And Mr. Brainiac, a casual Google search shows the first trials are of a vaccine developed by the slacker swamp NIAID and manufactured by a private company -- the usual public private collaboration. But I'm sure you knew all that. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...ovid-19-begins

Let's get together and call ourselves an institute!

-- Jay Beattie.

Then you should have the least problem telling us what "Big Parma" is. I'll wait for you to get your thoughts together. Do you suppose that will happen within my lifetime?

"Big Parma" is a giant Italian multi-national that tried to corner the prosciutto market in 1988. It ended in disaster due to a crash of the prosciutto futures market. It's documented he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLySXTIBS3c

Are you still alive? If so, there you go.

-- Jay Beattie.

And I fully expected you to be unable to back up your big mouth with anything but stalling.

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 5:59:24 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 4:14:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 10:59:48 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:28:12 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 8:47:42 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2020 10:33 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/


I read a compilation of recent abstracts last evening which
seem to indicate that some people, not distinguished by age,
obesity, prior heart/lung/circulatory impairment etc react
dramatically to this infection with a massive cytokine
cascade. That inflammation rapidly impairs breathing, allows
teh virus to replicate faster and can be a deathly downward
spiral. For those people the hydrocholorquine can reduce
inflammation while teh Azithromycin acts against
opportunistic bacterial infection (a commonly fatal
complication of influenza) where present.

Yes, and there was similar literature for SARS and MERS. As for the action of Chloroquine, see https://aac.asm.org/content/aac/53/8/3416.full.pdf I think the recent investigations are looking more at its anti-viral effect than its anti-inflammatory effect, which looks like it has been studied a lot already in connection with various inflammatory diseases.

The various HIV therapies in testing are antivirals and some
seem more effective than others for this particular virus.
Sadly, the people in the group above are at serious risk of
death in short order before these antivirals can be effective..

So, both approaches seem valid for different groups for
different reasons. As always, we'll know more in a couple
of years; these are early reports.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763982
And there is the antibody work being done, too.

There are actual real scientists out there doing this work 24/7, many of them for NIH, CDC, state governments and liberal scum Universities across the nation. And then the great titans of industry, on whose shoulders we rest, are also looking for answers -- and patents (and often relying on the liberal scum universities). https://www.drugtargetreview.com/art...virus-vaccine/ The scientific swamp seems to be doing just fine. It's the governments that are flailing.

-- Jay Beattie.

At what point in time are you going to cease and desist in telling us that your references make you some sort of expert?

But Tom, like you, I am a genius and am an expert in immunology, virology, cellular biology, medicine and Googling. Unlike you, though, I have access to LEXIS and a vast medical journal data base. I can plug in search terms and bring up all the recent literature, most of which is wrong according to the voices in my head, but those so-called PhDs wrote them and think they know everything. I tell PhDs what to do every day, and write them letters and leave phone messages.


In case you are unaware of it the pharmaceutical companies without the scum liberal universities came up with a number of different vaccines within weeks. FDA long term testing keeps these from being released. The FDA testing processes are totally responsible and cannot be rushed. And it is 22 different pharmaceutical companies and not 15. Tell us again about Big Pharma like any 12 year old with a moronic teacher like Frank.

I actually know quite a bit about Big Pharma and the FDA approval process being that I represent Big Pharma and device manufacturers. My father also worked for them (Parke-Davis and Eli Lilly), and my uncle was CEO/chairman of Pfizer -- he bought both Viagra and Rogaine to the market, your two maintenance drugs. And Mr. Brainiac, a casual Google search shows the first trials are of a vaccine developed by the slacker swamp NIAID and manufactured by a private company -- the usual public private collaboration. But I'm sure you knew all that. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...ovid-19-begins

Let's get together and call ourselves an institute!

-- Jay Beattie.

Then you should have the least problem telling us what "Big Parma" is.. I'll wait for you to get your thoughts together. Do you suppose that will happen within my lifetime?

"Big Parma" is a giant Italian multi-national that tried to corner the prosciutto market in 1988. It ended in disaster due to a crash of the prosciutto futures market. It's documented he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLySXTIBS3c

Are you still alive? If so, there you go.

-- Jay Beattie.

And I fully expected you to be unable to back up your big mouth with anything but stalling.

Well, being that your incapable of looking something up in a dictionary, here you go: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Big%20Pharma

It's a defined term. Is there some secret knowledge about Big Pharma you're going to lay on us? Like the Mesopotamians invented Big Pharma in 10,000 BC. I'm waiting for the full-on Cliff Clavin.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 4/11/2020 7:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 10:59:48 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:28:12 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 8:47:42 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2020 10:33 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/


I read a compilation of recent abstracts last evening which
seem to indicate that some people, not distinguished by age,
obesity, prior heart/lung/circulatory impairment etc react
dramatically to this infection with a massive cytokine
cascade. That inflammation rapidly impairs breathing, allows
teh virus to replicate faster and can be a deathly downward
spiral. For those people the hydrocholorquine can reduce
inflammation while teh Azithromycin acts against
opportunistic bacterial infection (a commonly fatal
complication of influenza) where present.

Yes, and there was similar literature for SARS and MERS. As for the action of Chloroquine, see https://aac.asm.org/content/aac/53/8/3416.full.pdf I think the recent investigations are looking more at its anti-viral effect than its anti-inflammatory effect, which looks like it has been studied a lot already in connection with various inflammatory diseases.

The various HIV therapies in testing are antivirals and some
seem more effective than others for this particular virus.
Sadly, the people in the group above are at serious risk of
death in short order before these antivirals can be effective.

So, both approaches seem valid for different groups for
different reasons. As always, we'll know more in a couple
of years; these are early reports.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763982
And there is the antibody work being done, too.

There are actual real scientists out there doing this work 24/7, many of them for NIH, CDC, state governments and liberal scum Universities across the nation. And then the great titans of industry, on whose shoulders we rest, are also looking for answers -- and patents (and often relying on the liberal scum universities). https://www.drugtargetreview.com/art...virus-vaccine/ The scientific swamp seems to be doing just fine. It's the governments that are flailing.

-- Jay Beattie.

At what point in time are you going to cease and desist in telling us that your references make you some sort of expert?

But Tom, like you, I am a genius and am an expert in immunology, virology, cellular biology, medicine and Googling. Unlike you, though, I have access to LEXIS and a vast medical journal data base. I can plug in search terms and bring up all the recent literature, most of which is wrong according to the voices in my head, but those so-called PhDs wrote them and think they know everything. I tell PhDs what to do every day, and write them letters and leave phone messages.


In case you are unaware of it the pharmaceutical companies without the scum liberal universities came up with a number of different vaccines within weeks. FDA long term testing keeps these from being released. The FDA testing processes are totally responsible and cannot be rushed. And it is 22 different pharmaceutical companies and not 15. Tell us again about Big Pharma like any 12 year old with a moronic teacher like Frank.

I actually know quite a bit about Big Pharma and the FDA approval process being that I represent Big Pharma and device manufacturers. My father also worked for them (Parke-Davis and Eli Lilly), and my uncle was CEO/chairman of Pfizer -- he bought both Viagra and Rogaine to the market, your two maintenance drugs. And Mr. Brainiac, a casual Google search shows the first trials are of a vaccine developed by the slacker swamp NIAID and manufactured by a private company -- the usual public private collaboration. But I'm sure you knew all that. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...ovid-19-begins

Let's get together and call ourselves an institute!

-- Jay Beattie.

Then you should have the least problem telling us what "Big Parma" is.
[Raising hand] I know! Parma is a suburb of Cleveland!


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/11/2020 10:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/11/2020 7:14 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 10:59:48 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:28:12 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 8:47:42 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2020 10:33 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in
place
but

"Answer" to the problem?Â* Unless you are a prepper prepared to
wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no.Â* "Shelter in
place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not
solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they
appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven.Â* Would be great if it pans out, we know how to
make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the
worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by
reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in
the last
hour).Â* Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe
medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop.Â* Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe.Â* And also it
would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of
COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease.
This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when
you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that
they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed
one.Â* Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which
can be
hopefully conferred to others.Â* Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection
results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor
use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been
tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump
and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president.
Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by
reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President
mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed
hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive
indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured'
because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene
mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by
an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which
there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking.Â* Better studies are
being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that
statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor.Â* He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience.Â* Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as
he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly.
That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this
pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses.Â* Maybe they
think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine.Â* In
fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else
treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to
treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not
like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew.Â* He severely ****ed
up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast
blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he
always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply
troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal
performance as
President since day one.Â* But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid.Â* Chug!Â* Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated
bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/



I read a compilation of recent abstracts last evening which
seem to indicate that some people, not distinguished by age,
obesity, prior heart/lung/circulatory impairment etc react
dramatically to this infection with a massive cytokine
cascade. That inflammation rapidly impairs breathing, allows
teh virus to replicate faster and can be a deathly downward
spiral.Â* For those people the hydrocholorquine can reduce
inflammation while teh Azithromycin acts against
opportunistic bacterial infection (a commonly fatal
complication of influenza) where present.

Yes, and there was similar literature for SARS and MERS.Â* As for
the action of Chloroquine, see
https://aac.asm.org/content/aac/53/8/3416.full.pdfÂ* I think the
recent investigations are looking more at its anti-viral effect
than its anti-inflammatory effect, which looks like it has been
studied a lot already in connection with various inflammatory
diseases.
The various HIV therapies in testing are antivirals and some
seem more effective than others for this particular virus.
Sadly, the people in the group above are at serious risk of
death in short order before these antivirals can be effective.

So, both approaches seem valid for different groups for
different reasons.Â* As always, we'll know more in a couple
of years; these are early reports.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763982
And there is the antibody work being done, too.

There are actual real scientists out there doing this work 24/7,
many of them for NIH, CDC, state governments and liberal scum
Universities across the nation.Â* And then the great titans of
industry, on whose shoulders we rest, are also looking for answers
-- and patents (and often relying on the liberal scum
universities).
https://www.drugtargetreview.com/art...virus-vaccine/
The scientific swamp seems to be doing just fine.Â* It's the
governments that are flailing.

-- Jay Beattie.

At what point in time are you going to cease and desist in telling
us that your references make you some sort of expert?

But Tom, like you, I am a genius and am an expert in immunology,
virology, cellular biology, medicine and Googling. Unlike you,
though, I have access to LEXIS and a vast medical journal data base.
I can plug in search terms and bring up all the recent literature,
most of which is wrong according to the voices in my head, but those
so-called PhDs wrote them and think they know everything. I tell PhDs
what to do every day, and write them letters and leave phone messages.


In case you are unaware of it the pharmaceutical companies without
the scum liberal universities came up with a number of different
vaccines within weeks. FDA long term testing keeps these from being
released. The FDA testing processes are totally responsible and
cannot be rushed. And it is 22 different pharmaceutical companies
and not 15. Tell us again about Big Pharma like any 12 year old with
a moronic teacher like Frank.

I actually know quite a bit about Big Pharma and the FDA approval
process being that I represent Big Pharma and device manufacturers.
My father also worked for them (Parke-Davis and Eli Lilly), and my
uncle was CEO/chairman of Pfizer -- he bought both Viagra and Rogaine
to the market, your two maintenance drugs. And Mr. Brainiac, a casual
Google search shows the first trials are of a vaccine developed by
the slacker swamp NIAID and manufactured by a private company -- the
usual public private collaboration. But I'm sure you knew all that.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...ovid-19-begins


Let's get together and call ourselves an institute!

-- Jay Beattie.

Then you should have the least problem telling us what "Big Parma" is.
[Raising hand]Â* I know! Parma is a suburb of Cleveland!

Oh, is the one in Italy still there? Maybe _that's_ "Big Parma."


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 6:36:43 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 5:59:24 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 5:34:24 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 4:14:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 10:59:48 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:28:12 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 8:47:42 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/11/2020 10:33 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 3:25:35 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:22:44 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2020 3:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This means that the answer to the problem is not shelter in place
but

"Answer" to the problem? Unless you are a prepper prepared to wait
out the fall of civilization in your bunker, no. "Shelter in place,"
"social distancing," etc., are management strategies not solutions.

a medication that can ameliorate the worst symptoms and they appear
to have three of them right now. The HIV medication which does
destroy this specific type of virus,

Not yet proven. Would be great if it pans out, we know how to make
those by the millions of doses.

hydroxychloroquine which is reported to completely stop the worst
symptoms in 8 to 12 hours

Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet (unless something has come out in the last
hour). Chloroquine and its derivatives are not safe medications- for
example, they can cause your heart to malfunction and stop. Any
powerful medication is by definition not safe. And also it would be
great if this pans out- something to ameliorate symptoms of COVID-19
would be tremendously helpful.

and transfusions from those who have gotten over the disease. This
last bit is almost impossible to achieve since you have to have
proof of them having antibodies against the disease but when you're
only testing those who have symptoms, you already know that they do
not have the antibodies.

Which is why Mayo Clinic is putting its antibody test into action
shortly and the University of Minnesota has also developed one. Then
he can identify people who may have developed immunity which can be
hopefully conferred to others. Again, what a boon that would be!
This is on the assumption that getting over the infection results in
antibodies and immunities.

Until the point that they can achieve widespread testing of the
population as a whole you cannot tell the mortality rates nor use
the transfusions except in the case of those who have been tested
and showed they were over it. And because of the laxity they are
showing with the testing, this number is tiny and this means of
treatment is limited.

The "laxity" with the testing in the US is the fault of Trump and Co.
There was an established test from WHO put to good use in other
countries with good results (e.g., South Korea) but the Trump
administration refused it... costing thousands of American lives.

Oh, but that's right, you think he's a wonderful president. Please
continue to disregard reality.


"Well, reported by Trump and his proxies, not reported by reputable
medical professionals yet"

That was demographically posited weeks before the President mentioned
it because Lupus sufferers, who are prescribed hydrochloroquine, were
underrepresented in Wuhan virus positives. After noticing that
anomaly, a French doctor tried a small set with positive indications,
followed by others in other countries.

The French guy did a poorly done study that fudged its data (e.g.,
removing adverse results which is the definition of bad science).

I pointedly did not say 'proven' or 'effective' or 'cured' because so
far no one has run a 'half get treated, half die' test. But as was
clearly stated, 'may be helpful'.

"May be helpful" in the way that gargling a little kerosene mixed in
water (a folk remedy for sore throats apparently promulgated by an older
generation of my family) might be helpful- the way in which there is no
demonstrated proof, only wishful thinking. Better studies are being put
into action and fingers crossed there is some benefit.

Even I am surprised at how vicious the criticism of that statement has
been, claiming the protocol will needlessly kill people, DJT is no
doctor and so on.

DJT *is* no doctor. He's a glorified landlord with delusions of
omniscience. Just slapping people on the drug willy-nilly, as he has
proposed, would harm and HAS ALREADY killed people needlessly. That
fatuous moron has the deaths of thousands on his hands in this pandemic
already, maybe a few more don't matter?

I'm always amazed by how little the right wing values human lives.
Money is what counts, people are acceptable losses. Maybe they think it
just weeds out the useless eaters.

So I called an acquaintance who lives with Lupus. She reports no
problems after some 20 years of using hydrochloroquine. In fact, one
reason it's suddenly available in great quantities is that it's
neither new nor rare.

It's not new or rare... unless you have lupus or something else treated
with it, and now you can't get it because it's being diverted to treat
something there is as yet no proof it treats...

As always, a simple factual statement such as, "I just do not like the
guy" would be much better than making things up.

"The guy" is a menace to the world, Andrew. He severely ****ed up in
response to the pandemic and is now desperately trying to cast blame on
everyone else he can think of, just making up lies like he always does.
That you and others are willing to countenance him is deeply troubling.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant to his abysmal performance as
President since day one. But the Republican 80% who think he's
wonderful have decided to keep drinking the Koolaid. Chug! Chug!
Chug!

Do you mind telling us why you're passing off pure unadulterated bull****?

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/20/...d-19-patients/


I read a compilation of recent abstracts last evening which
seem to indicate that some people, not distinguished by age,
obesity, prior heart/lung/circulatory impairment etc react
dramatically to this infection with a massive cytokine
cascade. That inflammation rapidly impairs breathing, allows
teh virus to replicate faster and can be a deathly downward
spiral. For those people the hydrocholorquine can reduce
inflammation while teh Azithromycin acts against
opportunistic bacterial infection (a commonly fatal
complication of influenza) where present.

Yes, and there was similar literature for SARS and MERS. As for the action of Chloroquine, see https://aac.asm.org/content/aac/53/8/3416.full.pdf I think the recent investigations are looking more at its anti-viral effect than its anti-inflammatory effect, which looks like it has been studied a lot already in connection with various inflammatory diseases.

The various HIV therapies in testing are antivirals and some
seem more effective than others for this particular virus.
Sadly, the people in the group above are at serious risk of
death in short order before these antivirals can be effective.

So, both approaches seem valid for different groups for
different reasons. As always, we'll know more in a couple
of years; these are early reports.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2763982
And there is the antibody work being done, too.

There are actual real scientists out there doing this work 24/7, many of them for NIH, CDC, state governments and liberal scum Universities across the nation. And then the great titans of industry, on whose shoulders we rest, are also looking for answers -- and patents (and often relying on the liberal scum universities). https://www.drugtargetreview.com/art...virus-vaccine/ The scientific swamp seems to be doing just fine. It's the governments that are flailing.

-- Jay Beattie.

At what point in time are you going to cease and desist in telling us that your references make you some sort of expert?

But Tom, like you, I am a genius and am an expert in immunology, virology, cellular biology, medicine and Googling. Unlike you, though, I have access to LEXIS and a vast medical journal data base. I can plug in search terms and bring up all the recent literature, most of which is wrong according to the voices in my head, but those so-called PhDs wrote them and think they know everything. I tell PhDs what to do every day, and write them letters and leave phone messages.


In case you are unaware of it the pharmaceutical companies without the scum liberal universities came up with a number of different vaccines within weeks. FDA long term testing keeps these from being released. The FDA testing processes are totally responsible and cannot be rushed. And it is 22 different pharmaceutical companies and not 15. Tell us again about Big Pharma like any 12 year old with a moronic teacher like Frank.

I actually know quite a bit about Big Pharma and the FDA approval process being that I represent Big Pharma and device manufacturers. My father also worked for them (Parke-Davis and Eli Lilly), and my uncle was CEO/chairman of Pfizer -- he bought both Viagra and Rogaine to the market, your two maintenance drugs. And Mr. Brainiac, a casual Google search shows the first trials are of a vaccine developed by the slacker swamp NIAID and manufactured by a private company -- the usual public private collaboration. But I'm sure you knew all that. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...ovid-19-begins

Let's get together and call ourselves an institute!

-- Jay Beattie.

Then you should have the least problem telling us what "Big Parma" is. I'll wait for you to get your thoughts together. Do you suppose that will happen within my lifetime?

"Big Parma" is a giant Italian multi-national that tried to corner the prosciutto market in 1988. It ended in disaster due to a crash of the prosciutto futures market. It's documented he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLySXTIBS3c

Are you still alive? If so, there you go.

-- Jay Beattie.

And I fully expected you to be unable to back up your big mouth with anything but stalling.

Well, being that your incapable of looking something up in a dictionary, here you go: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Big%20Pharma

It's a defined term. Is there some secret knowledge about Big Pharma you're going to lay on us? Like the Mesopotamians invented Big Pharma in 10,000 BC. I'm waiting for the full-on Cliff Clavin.

-- Jay Beattie.

If you represented "Big Pharma" you'd know that that term is nothing more than a 12 year old little boy's idea that somehow the pharmaceutical companies are a single political influence. But how is it that you don't know that is a totally false impression if you represent them?