Rock n Roll

On 2017-06-20 08:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:[i]
On 6/20/2017 9:12 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 19:53, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/19/2017 7:34 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 16:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:23:41 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

And yes, it does take less than a minute even if Frank won't believe
it.

Two dabs per second for the entire chain? Yes, I won't believe it,
unless you
post a video. Sorry for the skepticism.


sigh

Can't do videos. Let me explain the wonderful workings of a Q-Tip. You
shake the White Lightning bottle a couple of seconds, spritz the usual
dose into a shotglass. Then you dip one side of the Q-Tip into the
fluid and gently stroke along 5-7 links of the chain, with slight
overlap.

Ah. IOW, you smear it on the entire chain working five to seven links
at a time.

That seems significantly different than what you described befo "I
apply lube to each link using a Q-Tip... dab it on."


For an engineer you have remarkably little imagination. A human finger
is capable of going up and down. Even two fingers holding a Q-Tip are.
Rat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat, like a machine gun.

:-) It gets better and better, Joerg.

Really, a video would be great.


I won't go borrow a camera for that since last time I made a photo upon
your request you came up with some other reason why you didn't believe
me. It was about filing a chain pin which I used to do all the time.
Some folks can do it, some cannot do it, it seems.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 6/20/17 1:04 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

I won't go borrow a camera for that since last time I made a photo upon
your request you came up with some other reason why you didn't believe
me. It was about filing a chain pin which I used to do all the time.
Some folks can do it, some cannot do it, it seems.

LOL, Frank demands a video regarding how you lube your chain, but of
course there is ALWAYS a reason or excuse when someone foolishly
complies with one of his demands.

On 6/20/2017 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:[i]
On 2017-06-20 08:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2017 9:12 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 19:53, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/19/2017 7:34 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 16:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:23:41 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

And yes, it does take less than a minute even if Frank won't believe
it.

Two dabs per second for the entire chain? Yes, I won't believe it,
unless you
post a video. Sorry for the skepticism.


sigh

Can't do videos. Let me explain the wonderful workings of a Q-Tip. You
shake the White Lightning bottle a couple of seconds, spritz the usual
dose into a shotglass. Then you dip one side of the Q-Tip into the
fluid and gently stroke along 5-7 links of the chain, with slight
overlap.

Ah. IOW, you smear it on the entire chain working five to seven links
at a time.

That seems significantly different than what you described befo "I
apply lube to each link using a Q-Tip... dab it on."


For an engineer you have remarkably little imagination. A human finger
is capable of going up and down. Even two fingers holding a Q-Tip are.
Rat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat, like a machine gun.

:-) It gets better and better, Joerg.

Really, a video would be great.


I won't go borrow a camera for that since last time I made a photo upon
your request you came up with some other reason why you didn't believe
me. It was about filing a chain pin which I used to do all the time.
Some folks can do it, some cannot do it, it seems.

Yes, as I recall, you put up a photo that did not seem to show what you
claimed - that an ordinary file could file down a hardened steel chain
pin. I suspected you'd hit that chain with a grinder instead of a file,
based on the scratch marks. Certainly, I (and IIRC others) tried files
on chain pins and got the result I expected, which was slight damage to
the file, no discernible change in the chain pin.

Those with a knowledge of Rockwell hardness would have easily understood
this.

Now you're asking us to believe you can use your super-speed to dab lube
onto chain links at a rate of two per second, using your Q-tip, doing
the entire chain in under a minute. I still say it sounds very, very
unlikely.

And son of a gun! There was a guy posting on September 23, 2016 who
claimed that exact same procedure took not one minute, but instead, 10
minutes! You should track him down, because he was using your account
and pretending to be you!

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec....8/iOdTYV_FBAAJ

"Chain cleaning takes at least 20mins each bike. The MTB chain has caked
brown dirt which comes off easy. The road chain bike is fairly clean
after lots of bike path riding but grimy soot-black after riding lots of
road. Gives me goose bumps thinking that I also breath whatever causes
this. I found the disposable interdental brushes to work great for
cleaning. First used for my teeth, rinsed, dried, they go into a coin
envelope and that is used up in the garage. So they all work two jobs.

"Lubing takes 10mins because I carefully dab it onto each link via Q-tip."

As happens so often, we're left with a problem: Which version of Joerg
to believe?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2017-06-20 14:38, Frank Krygowski wrote:[i]
On 6/20/2017 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-20 08:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2017 9:12 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 19:53, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/19/2017 7:34 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 16:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:23:41 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

And yes, it does take less than a minute even if Frank won't
believe
it.

Two dabs per second for the entire chain? Yes, I won't believe it,
unless you
post a video. Sorry for the skepticism.


sigh

Can't do videos. Let me explain the wonderful workings of a Q-Tip.
You
shake the White Lightning bottle a couple of seconds, spritz the
usual
dose into a shotglass. Then you dip one side of the Q-Tip into the
fluid and gently stroke along 5-7 links of the chain, with slight
overlap.

Ah. IOW, you smear it on the entire chain working five to seven links
at a time.

That seems significantly different than what you described befo "I
apply lube to each link using a Q-Tip... dab it on."


For an engineer you have remarkably little imagination. A human finger
is capable of going up and down. Even two fingers holding a Q-Tip are.
Rat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat, like a machine gun.

:-) It gets better and better, Joerg.

Really, a video would be great.


I won't go borrow a camera for that since last time I made a photo
upon your request you came up with some other reason why you didn't
believe me. It was about filing a chain pin which I used to do all the
time. Some folks can do it, some cannot do it, it seems.

Yes, as I recall, you put up a photo that did not seem to show what you
claimed - that an ordinary file could file down a hardened steel chain
pin.


Which is exactly what I did. I even gave you the file brand and type.


... I suspected you'd hit that chain with a grinder instead of a file,
based on the scratch marks. ...


Don't become a detective or expert witness. They'd fire you soon, and
should.


... Certainly, I (and IIRC others) tried files
on chain pins and got the result I expected, which was slight damage to
the file, no discernible change in the chain pin.

Those with a knowledge of Rockwell hardness would have easily understood
this.


Those with knowledge of how to do this stuff and in possession of
professional grade tools understand better.



Now you're asking us to believe you can use your super-speed to dab lube
onto chain links at a rate of two per second, using your Q-tip, doing
the entire chain in under a minute. I still say it sounds very, very
unlikely.

And son of a gun! There was a guy posting on September 23, 2016 who
claimed that exact same procedure took not one minute, but instead, 10
minutes! You should track him down, because he was using your account
and pretending to be you!

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec....8/iOdTYV_FBAAJ

"Chain cleaning takes at least 20mins each bike. The MTB chain has caked
brown dirt which comes off easy. The road chain bike is fairly clean
after lots of bike path riding but grimy soot-black after riding lots of
road. Gives me goose bumps thinking that I also breath whatever causes
this. I found the disposable interdental brushes to work great for
cleaning. First used for my teeth, rinsed, dried, they go into a coin
envelope and that is used up in the garage. So they all work two jobs.

"Lubing takes 10mins because I carefully dab it onto each link via Q-tip."

As happens so often, we're left with a problem: Which version of Joerg
to believe?


That should have been one min. The 20mins is nearly all taken up by
cleaning grime and sticky stuff.

It's also a matter of training.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 20/06/17 12:53, Frank Krygowski wrote:[i]
On 6/19/2017 7:34 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 16:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:23:41 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

And yes, it does take less than a minute even if Frank won't believe
it.

Two dabs per second for the entire chain? Yes, I won't believe it,
unless you
post a video. Sorry for the skepticism.


sigh

Can't do videos. Let me explain the wonderful workings of a Q-Tip. You
shake the White Lightning bottle a couple of seconds, spritz the usual
dose into a shotglass. Then you dip one side of the Q-Tip into the
fluid and gently stroke along 5-7 links of the chain, with slight
overlap.

Ah. IOW, you smear it on the entire chain working five to seven links
at a time.

That seems significantly different than what you described befo "I
apply lube to each link using a Q-Tip... dab it on."


From what I've seen, that stuff needs to be flooded on to the chain
because there is little wax in a bottle of much solvent.

Cooking in a hot wax/oil bath is much more effective.

--
JS

On 2017-06-20 15:02, James wrote:[i]
On 20/06/17 12:53, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/19/2017 7:34 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 16:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:23:41 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

And yes, it does take less than a minute even if Frank won't believe
it.

Two dabs per second for the entire chain? Yes, I won't believe it,
unless you
post a video. Sorry for the skepticism.


sigh

Can't do videos. Let me explain the wonderful workings of a Q-Tip. You
shake the White Lightning bottle a couple of seconds, spritz the usual
dose into a shotglass. Then you dip one side of the Q-Tip into the
fluid and gently stroke along 5-7 links of the chain, with slight
overlap.

Ah. IOW, you smear it on the entire chain working five to seven links
at a time.

That seems significantly different than what you described befo "I
apply lube to each link using a Q-Tip... dab it on."


From what I've seen, that stuff needs to be flooded on to the chain
because there is little wax in a bottle of much solvent.

Cooking in a hot wax/oil bath is much more effective.


I have tried the flooding early on (and back then chain lubing took me a
lot longer), then went to the quick dab-skip-dab-skip... method. It made
no difference in the "miles until squeal" but the usage of fluid per
lube event went way down.

There is indeed only little wax in it so you don't get the nice
protection of a factory original lube but there must also be some top
quality oil in it. Otherwise I'd never get 4000mi+ out of a Sachs-Sedis
chain. I am a stickler when it comes to cleaning though, using
interdental brushes and all that.

With the Q-Tip methods I must stir the shotglass contents once during
the lube so the wax won't settle out too much.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 at 3:02:33 PM UTC-7, James wrote:[i]
On 20/06/17 12:53, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/19/2017 7:34 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 16:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:23:41 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

And yes, it does take less than a minute even if Frank won't believe
it.

Two dabs per second for the entire chain? Yes, I won't believe it,
unless you
post a video. Sorry for the skepticism.


sigh

Can't do videos. Let me explain the wonderful workings of a Q-Tip. You
shake the White Lightning bottle a couple of seconds, spritz the usual
dose into a shotglass. Then you dip one side of the Q-Tip into the
fluid and gently stroke along 5-7 links of the chain, with slight
overlap.

Ah. IOW, you smear it on the entire chain working five to seven links
at a time.

That seems significantly different than what you described befo "I
apply lube to each link using a Q-Tip... dab it on."


From what I've seen, that stuff needs to be flooded on to the chain
because there is little wax in a bottle of much solvent.

Cooking in a hot wax/oil bath is much more effective.

What is your formula, exactly. I'll be the tester. Just like with my dynamo.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 6/20/2017 5:56 PM, Joerg wrote:[i]
On 2017-06-20 14:38, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2017 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-20 08:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2017 9:12 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 19:53, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/19/2017 7:34 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 16:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:23:41 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

And yes, it does take less than a minute even if Frank won't
believe
it.

Two dabs per second for the entire chain? Yes, I won't believe it,
unless you
post a video. Sorry for the skepticism.


sigh

Can't do videos. Let me explain the wonderful workings of a Q-Tip.
You
shake the White Lightning bottle a couple of seconds, spritz the
usual
dose into a shotglass. Then you dip one side of the Q-Tip into the
fluid and gently stroke along 5-7 links of the chain, with slight
overlap.

Ah. IOW, you smear it on the entire chain working five to seven
links
at a time.

That seems significantly different than what you described befo "I
apply lube to each link using a Q-Tip... dab it on."


For an engineer you have remarkably little imagination. A human finger
is capable of going up and down. Even two fingers holding a Q-Tip are.
Rat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat, like a machine gun.

:-) It gets better and better, Joerg.

Really, a video would be great.


I won't go borrow a camera for that since last time I made a photo
upon your request you came up with some other reason why you didn't
believe me. It was about filing a chain pin which I used to do all the
time. Some folks can do it, some cannot do it, it seems.

Yes, as I recall, you put up a photo that did not seem to show what you
claimed - that an ordinary file could file down a hardened steel chain
pin.


Which is exactly what I did. I even gave you the file brand and type.


... I suspected you'd hit that chain with a grinder instead of a file,
based on the scratch marks. ...


Don't become a detective or expert witness. They'd fire you soon, and
should.


... Certainly, I (and IIRC others) tried files
on chain pins and got the result I expected, which was slight damage to
the file, no discernible change in the chain pin.

Those with a knowledge of Rockwell hardness would have easily understood
this.


Those with knowledge of how to do this stuff and in possession of
professional grade tools understand better.

Bull****, Joerg. There's no way you have as much time in a machine shop
as I have. There's no way you know as much about steel metallurgy,
hardness measurements or cutting tools as I do. There's no way your
files are better than my files. There's no way you have filed down
chain pins with any normal steel file.

Now you're asking us to believe you can use your super-speed to dab lube
onto chain links at a rate of two per second, using your Q-tip, doing
the entire chain in under a minute. I still say it sounds very, very
unlikely.

And son of a gun! There was a guy posting on September 23, 2016 who
claimed that exact same procedure took not one minute, but instead, 10
minutes! You should track him down, because he was using your account
and pretending to be you!

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec....8/iOdTYV_FBAAJ


"Chain cleaning takes at least 20mins each bike. The MTB chain has caked
brown dirt which comes off easy. The road chain bike is fairly clean
after lots of bike path riding but grimy soot-black after riding lots of
road. Gives me goose bumps thinking that I also breath whatever causes
this. I found the disposable interdental brushes to work great for
cleaning. First used for my teeth, rinsed, dried, they go into a coin
envelope and that is used up in the garage. So they all work two jobs.

"Lubing takes 10mins because I carefully dab it onto each link via
Q-tip."

As happens so often, we're left with a problem: Which version of Joerg
to believe?


That should have been one min. The 20mins is nearly all taken up by
cleaning grime and sticky stuff.

I believe the Joerg who said the _cleaning_ takes 20 minutes, and the
_lubing_ takes 10 minutes. Or to generalize, I believe you do often
tell the truth when you've not backed yourself into a corner by making
silly statements.

But I don't believe the 10 minute estimate was a typo. I don't believe
you can file a chain pin down with any normal steel file. I don't
believe that you really repair chains by finding steel nails along a
trail and smacking things with rocks. I don't believe that your area
drivers are far more dangerous than those in most areas of the U.S. I
don't believe that your life has been saved several times by disk brakes
stopping you just before wildlife collisions. And so on.

I _do_ believe you'll now say you never made those claims. And I don't
believe it's worth the the time to track them all down, as I did with
your Q-tip story.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 21/06/17 12:30, Frank Krygowski wrote:[i]
On 6/20/2017 5:56 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-20 14:38, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2017 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-20 08:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2017 9:12 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 19:53, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/19/2017 7:34 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-19 16:04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 1:23:41 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

And yes, it does take less than a minute even if Frank won't
believe
it.

Two dabs per second for the entire chain? Yes, I won't believe
it,
unless you
post a video. Sorry for the skepticism.


sigh

Can't do videos. Let me explain the wonderful workings of a Q-Tip.
You
shake the White Lightning bottle a couple of seconds, spritz the
usual
dose into a shotglass. Then you dip one side of the Q-Tip into the
fluid and gently stroke along 5-7 links of the chain, with slight
overlap.

Ah. IOW, you smear it on the entire chain working five to seven
links
at a time.

That seems significantly different than what you described
befo "I
apply lube to each link using a Q-Tip... dab it on."


For an engineer you have remarkably little imagination. A human
finger
is capable of going up and down. Even two fingers holding a Q-Tip
are.
Rat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat, like a machine gun.

:-) It gets better and better, Joerg.

Really, a video would be great.


I won't go borrow a camera for that since last time I made a photo
upon your request you came up with some other reason why you didn't
believe me. It was about filing a chain pin which I used to do all the
time. Some folks can do it, some cannot do it, it seems.

Yes, as I recall, you put up a photo that did not seem to show what you
claimed - that an ordinary file could file down a hardened steel chain
pin.


Which is exactly what I did. I even gave you the file brand and type.


... I suspected you'd hit that chain with a grinder instead of a file,
based on the scratch marks. ...


Don't become a detective or expert witness. They'd fire you soon, and
should.


... Certainly, I (and IIRC others) tried files
on chain pins and got the result I expected, which was slight damage to
the file, no discernible change in the chain pin.

Those with a knowledge of Rockwell hardness would have easily understood
this.


Those with knowledge of how to do this stuff and in possession of
professional grade tools understand better.

Bull****, Joerg. There's no way you have as much time in a machine shop
as I have. There's no way you know as much about steel metallurgy,
hardness measurements or cutting tools as I do. There's no way your
files are better than my files. There's no way you have filed down
chain pins with any normal steel file.

Now you're asking us to believe you can use your super-speed to dab lube
onto chain links at a rate of two per second, using your Q-tip, doing
the entire chain in under a minute. I still say it sounds very, very
unlikely.

And son of a gun! There was a guy posting on September 23, 2016 who
claimed that exact same procedure took not one minute, but instead, 10
minutes! You should track him down, because he was using your account
and pretending to be you!

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec....8/iOdTYV_FBAAJ


"Chain cleaning takes at least 20mins each bike. The MTB chain has caked
brown dirt which comes off easy. The road chain bike is fairly clean
after lots of bike path riding but grimy soot-black after riding lots of
road. Gives me goose bumps thinking that I also breath whatever causes
this. I found the disposable interdental brushes to work great for
cleaning. First used for my teeth, rinsed, dried, they go into a coin
envelope and that is used up in the garage. So they all work two jobs.

"Lubing takes 10mins because I carefully dab it onto each link via
Q-tip."

As happens so often, we're left with a problem: Which version of Joerg
to believe?


That should have been one min. The 20mins is nearly all taken up by
cleaning grime and sticky stuff.

I believe the Joerg who said the _cleaning_ takes 20 minutes, and the
_lubing_ takes 10 minutes. Or to generalize, I believe you do often
tell the truth when you've not backed yourself into a corner by making
silly statements.

But I don't believe the 10 minute estimate was a typo. I don't believe
you can file a chain pin down with any normal steel file. I don't
believe that you really repair chains by finding steel nails along a
trail and smacking things with rocks. I don't believe that your area
drivers are far more dangerous than those in most areas of the U.S. I
don't believe that your life has been saved several times by disk brakes
stopping you just before wildlife collisions. And so on.

I _do_ believe you'll now say you never made those claims. And I don't
believe it's worth the the time to track them all down, as I did with
your Q-tip story.




I wrote this reply in the thread "Another IGH, competitor to Rohloff?"

To be fair to Joerg, I tried filing a chain pin yesterday afternoon. I
managed to take a little metal off the pin and damaged my metal file.
Thankfully the file wasn't in good condition to begin with, but the file
marks on the pin looked nothing like the picture Joerg posted. Joerg's
file must have had real teeth or lumps of diamond - or more likely he
used a grinder.

While I confess I've not spent hours each week riding offroad, I have
done a fair bit over the decades, and never broken or bent a chain.

--
JS

On Tuesday, June 20, 2017 at 10:30:25 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Snipped
I believe the Joerg who said the _cleaning_ takes 20 minutes, and the
_lubing_ takes 10 minutes. Or to generalize, I believe you do often
tell the truth when you've not backed yourself into a corner by making
silly statements.

But I don't believe the 10 minute estimate was a typo. I don't believe
you can file a chain pin down with any normal steel file. I don't
believe that you really repair chains by finding steel nails along a
trail and smacking things with rocks. I don't believe that your area
drivers are far more dangerous than those in most areas of the U.S. I
don't believe that your life has been saved several times by disk brakes
stopping you just before wildlife collisions. And so on.

I _do_ believe you'll now say you never made those claims. And I don't
believe it's worth the the time to track them all down, as I did with
your Q-tip story.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Methinks that Joerg makes up things and then posts here just to see what kind of rise he can get from people. So much of what Joerg claims is simply unbelievable to those of us who ride in similar or even worse conditions. SOme of Joergs claims such as fixing a broken chain by using a scrounged nail and rock in the boonies boggles the mind when he also claims to carry a substantial tool kit but no chain tool.

Cheers