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#61
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More from the UK: "Bike lanes save lives of drivers as well ascyclists, study finds"
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 10:06:10 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 10:54 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: snip Not to disparage the Netherlands but you have been building bike lanes since the late 1890's and the use of bicycles is much, much higher than in the U.S. If only we could figure out if there were a relationship with building more bike lanes and much higher use of bicycles. You have to make it too expensive plus too much trouble for cars in order to increase bicycle use. You need high taxes and high fuel costs plus fees to come into the city core and other fees on automobiles that countries in Europe with high bicycle use have. Cheers |
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#62
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More from the UK: "Bike lanes save lives of drivers aswell as cyclists, study finds"
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 10:06:10 AM UTC-4, sms wrote: On 6/1/2019 10:54 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: snip Not to disparage the Netherlands but you have been building bike lanes since the late 1890's and the use of bicycles is much, much higher than in the U.S. If only we could figure out if there were a relationship with building more bike lanes and much higher use of bicycles. In some locales there might be a bit of an increase in bicycle use but the predominate trend seems to be no, building more bike lanes does NOT normally mean a MUCH HIGHER use of bicycles. Cheers It’s hard to tell sometime. You’ve been to Montreal I think. We have a lot of bicycles and a lot of bike lanes. Chicken and egg? I know there isn’t much infrastructure here that goes unused. At least once the snow melts. 6 month winters is the problem here. -- duane |
#63
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More from the UK: "Bike lanes save lives of drivers as well ascyclists, study finds"
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 11:45:49 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 10:06:10 AM UTC-4, sms wrote: On 6/1/2019 10:54 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: snip Not to disparage the Netherlands but you have been building bike lanes since the late 1890's and the use of bicycles is much, much higher than in the U.S. If only we could figure out if there were a relationship with building more bike lanes and much higher use of bicycles. In some locales there might be a bit of an increase in bicycle use but the predominate trend seems to be no, building more bike lanes does NOT normally mean a MUCH HIGHER use of bicycles. Cheers It’s hard to tell sometime. You’ve been to Montreal I think. We have a lot of bicycles and a lot of bike lanes. Chicken and egg? I know there isn’t much infrastructure here that goes unused. At least once the snow melts. 6 month winters is the problem here. -- duane I'm not too familiar with Montreal. I have been to Ottawa a few times in years gone by and remember bike lanes that ran on the road, then up onto the sidewalks then back onto the roads. Interesting. Cheers |
#64
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More from the UK: "Bike lanes save lives of drivers as well ascyclists, study finds"
On 6/2/2019 11:45 AM, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote: In some locales there might be a bit of an increase in bicycle use but the predominate trend seems to be no, building more bike lanes does NOT normally mean a MUCH HIGHER use of bicycles. Cheers It’s hard to tell sometime. You’ve been to Montreal I think. We have a lot of bicycles and a lot of bike lanes. Chicken and egg? Again: Pittsburgh's increase in bike mode share occurred almost entirely when there were no relevant bike facilities built. Once they started being installed everywhere, commuting mode share stopped growing. But to the true believers, that doesn't matter. They see some commuters, they see some bike lanes, and they imagine cause and effect. The causality may well be the other way round. Politicians see more bicyclists than before, _then_ say "We should do something they'll like so we get their votes - oh, and save the planet!" But if there's no additional mode share after installation (as in the Burgh) then what has been accomplished? I know there isn’t much infrastructure here that goes unused. At least once the snow melts. 6 month winters is the problem here. That's the same sort of problem that most of the country has - for half the year and for most people, it's either too hot or too cold to consider utility biking. Amsterdam, Portland, Seattle, Davis CA, etc. all feature pretty mild climates. Portland's winter is gloomy and drizzly, but much easier to handle on a bike than much of the country. (Bismarck ND's state museum had a sign "40 below keeps the riff-raff out.") And even Portland sees far less bike use in winter than in nice weather. This doesn't mean we can't achieve 10% bike mode share. All we have to do is what Amsterdam did: Flatten all the significant hills. Get rid of hot summers and freezing winters. Go back 100 years and install a bicycle culture, where everyone ride bikes even without special facilities. Then dissuade driving by not redesigning streets for motorists, as America did. Make parking hard to find and expensive. Make it harder to qualify for a driver's license. Put big taxes on car purchases and gasoline. Provide lots of public transportation, paid for by tax dollars. Presto! Lots of biking! Any politician worth his salt should be able to achieve all that within a couple years. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#65
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More from the UK: "Bike lanes save lives of drivers as well ascyclists, study finds"
On 6/2/2019 10:06 AM, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 10:54 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: snip Not to disparage the Netherlands but you have been building bike lanes since the late 1890's and the use of bicycles is much, much higher than in the U.S. If only we could figure out if there were a relationship with building more bike lanes and much higher use of bicycles. .... and figure out the direction of causality. Say, how about if we see whether bike mode share increased before or after the installation of most bike lanes? What if we see if building even more bike lanes causes continued increase in bike mode share? No... you won't do that, because you won't like the results in San Francisco, in Pittsburgh, in Portland... -- - Frank Krygowski |
#66
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More from the UK: "Bike lanes save lives of drivers as well ascyclists, study finds"
On 6/2/2019 8:45 AM, Duane wrote:
snip It’s hard to tell sometime. You’ve been to Montreal I think. We have a lot of bicycles and a lot of bike lanes. Chicken and egg? I know there isn’t much infrastructure here that goes unused. At least once the snow melts. 6 month winters is the problem here. I think that some people have the idea that days after the construction of bicycle infrastructure is completed that suddenly bicycle use skyrockets. When that doesn't happen they loudly proclaim that this proves that bicycle infrastructure doesn't contribute much to increased cycling levels and was a waste of money. The old Chinese proverb of "The best time to construct a protected bike lane was 20 years ago. The second best time is now" applies. |
#67
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More from the UK: "Bike lanes save lives of drivers aswell as cyclists, study finds"
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 11:45:49 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 10:06:10 AM UTC-4, sms wrote: On 6/1/2019 10:54 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: snip Not to disparage the Netherlands but you have been building bike lanes since the late 1890's and the use of bicycles is much, much higher than in the U.S. If only we could figure out if there were a relationship with building more bike lanes and much higher use of bicycles. In some locales there might be a bit of an increase in bicycle use but the predominate trend seems to be no, building more bike lanes does NOT normally mean a MUCH HIGHER use of bicycles. Cheers It’s hard to tell sometime. You’ve been to Montreal I think. We have a lot of bicycles and a lot of bike lanes. Chicken and egg? I know there isn’t much infrastructure here that goes unused. At least once the snow melts. 6 month winters is the problem here. -- duane I'm not too familiar with Montreal. I have been to Ottawa a few times in years gone by and remember bike lanes that ran on the road, then up onto the sidewalks then back onto the roads. Interesting. Cheers Been to Ottawa but I don’t remember that. We do a ride from Montreal to Gatineau so I’ve ridden in Ottawa but just a bit. Gatineau Park is a cool place to ride a bike though. Right on red is illegal in Montreal so that may help things. Or hinder depending on your point of view. -- duane |
#68
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More from the UK: "Bike lanes save lives of drivers aswell as cyclists, study finds"
sms wrote:
On 6/2/2019 8:45 AM, Duane wrote: snip It’s hard to tell sometime. You’ve been to Montreal I think. We have a lot of bicycles and a lot of bike lanes. Chicken and egg? I know there isn’t much infrastructure here that goes unused. At least once the snow melts. 6 month winters is the problem here. I think that some people have the idea that days after the construction of bicycle infrastructure is completed that suddenly bicycle use skyrockets. When that doesn't happen they loudly proclaim that this proves that bicycle infrastructure doesn't contribute much to increased cycling levels and was a waste of money. The old Chinese proverb of "The best time to construct a protected bike lane was 20 years ago. The second best time is now" applies. I can’t say. I’ve been here for about 25 years and the number of cyclists seems to be increasing along with the architecture. I don’t see which is cause and which is effect. Or if there’s a direct correlation. Except for the bike path that they build between our neighbourhood and our local grammar school. The bike racks at the school are now full when they were empty before. -- duane |
#69
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More from the UK: "Bike lanes save lives of drivers as well ascyclists, study finds"
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 3:16:01 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 6/2/2019 8:45 AM, Duane wrote: snip It’s hard to tell sometime. You’ve been to Montreal I think. We have a lot of bicycles and a lot of bike lanes. Chicken and egg? I know there isn’t much infrastructure here that goes unused. At least once the snow melts. 6 month winters is the problem here. I think that some people have the idea that days after the construction of bicycle infrastructure is completed that suddenly bicycle use skyrockets. When that doesn't happen they loudly proclaim that this proves that bicycle infrastructure doesn't contribute much to increased cycling levels and was a waste of money. The old Chinese proverb of "The best time to construct a protected bike lane was 20 years ago. The second best time is now" applies. So, what do you say when a bicycle lane, path or segregated facility is built and many years later it's still nearly empty of bicyclists? Most of the so called bicycling infrastructure I've seen in Toronto, Canada and Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada is wasted money. The only ones I see that get even a modicum of use, and then only in the late spring and summer, are the Rail-trails and then ONLY on the weekends. Cheers |
#70
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More from the UK: "Bike lanes save lives of drivers as well ascyclists, study finds"
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 3:51:14 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 11:45:49 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 10:06:10 AM UTC-4, sms wrote: On 6/1/2019 10:54 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: snip Not to disparage the Netherlands but you have been building bike lanes since the late 1890's and the use of bicycles is much, much higher than in the U.S. If only we could figure out if there were a relationship with building more bike lanes and much higher use of bicycles. In some locales there might be a bit of an increase in bicycle use but the predominate trend seems to be no, building more bike lanes does NOT normally mean a MUCH HIGHER use of bicycles. Cheers It’s hard to tell sometime. You’ve been to Montreal I think. We have a lot of bicycles and a lot of bike lanes. Chicken and egg? I know there isn’t much infrastructure here that goes unused. At least once the snow melts. 6 month winters is the problem here. -- duane I'm not too familiar with Montreal. I have been to Ottawa a few times in years gone by and remember bike lanes that ran on the road, then up onto the sidewalks then back onto the roads. Interesting. Cheers Been to Ottawa but I don’t remember that. We do a ride from Montreal to Gatineau so I’ve ridden in Ottawa but just a bit. Gatineau Park is a cool place to ride a bike though. Right on red is illegal in Montreal so that may help things. Or hinder depending on your point of view. -- duane It was many years ago and it was down near LeBreton Flats (where there used to be a campground)and Parliament vicinity iirc. It might have changed over the years. It might have been further into town too as I did have my bicycle. Just looked at Google Maps and I don't recognize any of the roads except Booth and Eddy streets. I used to cross the Chaudiere Bridge on Eddy street and ride into Hull and go to Cycle Bertrand. That was a neat store. I see there's still a Cycle Bertrand in hull on Eddy Street. Cheers |
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