Tires and flats

I had to think of the many flat tire reports and their various causes
posted here on wreck.bike, as I rode the Paicines-New Idria-Paicines
spring tour last Sunday. Those are the roughest roads I have seen of
which I have ridden many here and in the Alps (old WWI & WWII military
trails). The ride report is in wreck.bike.rides and I guess after
reading it again, I probably didn't make much hay over the New Idria
section. It's a blast if you like descending steep corkscrew
whoop-de-doos in striking landscape. In any case, I rode on a rear
tire that was into the cords and had no flat nor did I have any the
other times I rode that loop.

The belief that thin tires cause flats on rough chipped granite roads
(flints as one writer called them) doesn't hold true in my experience.
If that weren't so, I would not have been able to ride many of the
great alpine passes in the late 1950's when the Simplon, Stelvio,
Great St. Bernard and many in the Dolomites were unpaved and to be
ridden on racing tubulars as the ancients like Jean Robic, Coppi,
Bartali and others did before I got there.

It's still spring and the Paicines-New Idria-Panoche valley-Paicines
route is still cool and beautiful. Do it and don't try this in
reverse either. The road from New Idria has 25% sections.

Jobst Brandt

I buy the flats issue. The rubber isn't doing a ton to keep the flats
down. What I think does matter in the case of "cord bare" tires is the
degredation of cornering performance. My rear tubular tire has a
rather worn "flat" section on it and the threads poke through in two
small spots, and I'm pretty sure my cornering comfort is paying the
price. Running at ~115psi I definitely don't feel as secure to the
road when doing higher-speed sweeping corners. I'm looking forward to
new rubber with the uniform, round tire surface.

On Thu, 04 May 2006 22:15:36 +0000, jobst.brandt wrote:

I had to think of the many flat tire reports and their various causes
posted here on wreck.bike, as I rode the Paicines-New Idria-Paicines
spring tour last Sunday. Those are the roughest roads I have seen of
which I have ridden many here and in the Alps (old WWI & WWII military
trails). The ride report is in wreck.bike.rides and I guess after
reading it again, I probably didn't make much hay over the New Idria
section. It's a blast if you like descending steep corkscrew
whoop-de-doos in striking landscape. In any case, I rode on a rear tire
that was into the cords and had no flat nor did I have any the other
times I rode that loop.

The belief that thin tires cause flats on rough chipped granite roads
(flints as one writer called them) doesn't hold true in my experience.
If that weren't so, I would not have been able to ride many of the great
alpine passes in the late 1950's when the Simplon, Stelvio, Great St.
Bernard and many in the Dolomites were unpaved and to be ridden on
racing tubulars as the ancients like Jean Robic, Coppi, Bartali and
others did before I got there.

If you mean rocks and gravel don't cause flats then I agree. Roadies
often won't ride in winter when there's gravel spread on the roads, nor
will they ride even short sections of unpaved road on their road bikes. I
think almost all flats that aren't pinch flats are caused by glass, metal
shards, tire cord wires, etc. These collect where the gravel does, giving
the appearance that the gravel causes the flats. But even with thin tires
I rarely got flats mountain biking. I got plenty on the roads to/from
the trails though.

It's still spring and the Paicines-New Idria-Panoche valley-Paicines
route is still cool and beautiful. Do it and don't try this in reverse
either. The road from New Idria has 25% sections.

Sounds like great MTB country!

Matt O.

Andrew F Martin writes:

I buy the flats issue. The rubber isn't doing a ton to keep the
flats down. What I think does matter in the case of "cord bare"
tires is the degradation of cornering performance. My rear tubular
tire has a rather worn "flat" section on it and the threads poke
through in two small spots, and I'm pretty sure my cornering comfort
is paying the price. Running at ~115psi I definitely don't feel as
secure to the road when doing higher-speed sweeping corners. I'm
looking forward to new rubber with the uniform, round tire surface.

I doubt that a well worn rear tire has any effect on cornering because
that is done on the sides where the tread is not worn away, and unless
that tread is separating from the casing, it is riding on plenty of
rubber in hard cornering. I often wear tires through to the cords and
have no problem descending as hard as ever.

Jobst Brandt

Matt O'Toole writes:

I had to think of the many flat tire reports and their various
causes posted here on wreck.bike, as I rode the Paicines-New
Idria-Paicines spring tour last Sunday. Those are the roughest
roads I have seen of which I have ridden many here and in the Alps
(old WWI & WWII military trails). The ride report is in
wreck.bike.rides and I guess after reading it again, I probably
didn't make much hay over the New Idria section. It's a blast if
you like descending steep corkscrew whoop-de-doos in striking
landscape. In any case, I rode on a rear tire that was into the
cords and had no flat nor did I have any the other times I rode
that loop.

The belief that thin tires cause flats on rough chipped granite
roads (flints as one writer called them) doesn't hold true in my
experience. If that weren't so, I would not have been able to ride
many of the great alpine passes in the late 1950's when the
Simplon, Stelvio, Great St. Bernard and many in the Dolomites were
unpaved and to be ridden on racing tubulars as the ancients like
Jean Robic, Coppi, Bartali and others did before I got there.

If you mean rocks and gravel don't cause flats then I agree.
Roadies often won't ride in winter when there's gravel spread on the
roads, nor will they ride even short sections of unpaved road on
their road bikes. I think almost all flats that aren't pinch flats
are caused by glass, metal shards, tire cord wires, etc. These
collect where the gravel does, giving the appearance that the gravel
causes the flats. But even with thin tires I rarely got flats
mountain biking. I got plenty on the roads to/from the trails
though.

It's still spring and the Paicines-New Idria-Panoche
valley-Paicines route is still cool and beautiful. Do it and don't
try this in reverse either. The road from New Idria has 25%
sections.

Sounds like great MTB country!

I think you'll do better on a road bicycle, as my group does, because
the main effort, other than the steepest climbs, is mileage and that
isn't so effective on a suspension knobby tired bicycle. Take food.
There are no services for 80 miles. New Idria is a ghost town!

Jobst Brandt

Generally I agree, except when riding in Denmark. Holy cow they know
how to sharpen rock up there. Prior to investing in Tuffy's there, I
got all sorts of flats from small shards of "flint" as the locals call
it. I guess they make the roads similar to our chip-seal, but with
this funny red rock that cracks into sharp pieces.

I was running relatively new Vittoria Rubino Pros at 110psi. I was
probably averaging a flat an hour from that stuff. Then I got Tuffy's
and the problem more or less went away. The locals told me to run
85psi instead and that just about fixed it.

Yeah, but it looks like my tire has a flat top. If I lean the bike to
the point where the wear isn't touching the contact point...I'm pretty
sure I'd fall over.

I think you'll do better on a road bicycle, as my group does, because
the main effort, other than the steepest climbs, is mileage and that
isn't so effective on a suspension knobby tired bicycle. Take food.
There are no services for 80 miles. New Idria is a ghost town!

Jobst Brandt

You mention food, but not water. The news reports make it look like there's
quite a bit of water up there, but I prefer to get my mercury levels topped
off by eating Tuna.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


wrote in message
...
Matt O'Toole writes:

I had to think of the many flat tire reports and their various
causes posted here on wreck.bike, as I rode the Paicines-New
Idria-Paicines spring tour last Sunday. Those are the roughest
roads I have seen of which I have ridden many here and in the Alps
(old WWI & WWII military trails). The ride report is in
wreck.bike.rides and I guess after reading it again, I probably
didn't make much hay over the New Idria section. It's a blast if
you like descending steep corkscrew whoop-de-doos in striking
landscape. In any case, I rode on a rear tire that was into the
cords and had no flat nor did I have any the other times I rode
that loop.

The belief that thin tires cause flats on rough chipped granite
roads (flints as one writer called them) doesn't hold true in my
experience. If that weren't so, I would not have been able to ride
many of the great alpine passes in the late 1950's when the
Simplon, Stelvio, Great St. Bernard and many in the Dolomites were
unpaved and to be ridden on racing tubulars as the ancients like
Jean Robic, Coppi, Bartali and others did before I got there.

If you mean rocks and gravel don't cause flats then I agree.
Roadies often won't ride in winter when there's gravel spread on the
roads, nor will they ride even short sections of unpaved road on
their road bikes. I think almost all flats that aren't pinch flats
are caused by glass, metal shards, tire cord wires, etc. These
collect where the gravel does, giving the appearance that the gravel
causes the flats. But even with thin tires I rarely got flats
mountain biking. I got plenty on the roads to/from the trails
though.

It's still spring and the Paicines-New Idria-Panoche
valley-Paicines route is still cool and beautiful. Do it and don't
try this in reverse either. The road from New Idria has 25%
sections.

Sounds like great MTB country!

I think you'll do better on a road bicycle, as my group does, because
the main effort, other than the steepest climbs, is mileage and that
isn't so effective on a suspension knobby tired bicycle. Take food.
There are no services for 80 miles. New Idria is a ghost town!

Jobst Brandt

On Fri, 05 May 2006 01:19:54 +0000, jobst.brandt wrote:

Andrew F Martin writes:

I buy the flats issue. The rubber isn't doing a ton to keep the
flats down. What I think does matter in the case of "cord bare"
tires is the degradation of cornering performance. My rear tubular
tire has a rather worn "flat" section on it and the threads poke
through in two small spots, and I'm pretty sure my cornering comfort
is paying the price. Running at ~115psi I definitely don't feel as
secure to the road when doing higher-speed sweeping corners. I'm
looking forward to new rubber with the uniform, round tire surface.

I doubt that a well worn rear tire has any effect on cornering because
that is done on the sides where the tread is not worn away, and unless
that tread is separating from the casing, it is riding on plenty of
rubber in hard cornering. I often wear tires through to the cords and
have no problem descending as hard as ever.

I agree. All the bike's handling "feel" comes from the front tire anyway
-- how it turns into corners, etc. Different tires do handle differently
because of their profile/shape, but one quickly gets used to it, whatever
it is.

One should never have a worn tire on the front anyway. Put the new one on
the front and move it to the rear when the rear wears out.

Matt O.

Mike Jacoubowsky writes:

I think you'll do better on a road bicycle, as my group does, because
the main effort, other than the steepest climbs, is mileage and that
isn't so effective on a suspension knobby tired bicycle. Take food.
There are no services for 80 miles. New Idria is a ghost town!

You mention food, but not water. The news reports make it look like
there's quite a bit of water up there, but I prefer to get my
mercury levels topped off by eating Tuna.

The water we drank was not from the clear creek recreation area but on
the ridge before that, besides, mercury and cinnabar is on the other
side of the mountain from Clear Creek.

Jobst Brandt