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  #31  
Old June 6th 19, 06:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Protecting yourself

On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 16:37:40 +0200, Rolf Mantel
wrote:

Am 06.06.2019 um 16:11 schrieb Jeff Liebermann:
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:03:52 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

But you can’t text without looking at it.


The problem can also be handled with a little social engineering.
Simply raise the price of texting while moving.


Does anybody without a text flat-rate still use texting these days? In
Germany, the costs of texts have driven the young generation to whatsapp
(my son sends hundreds of whatsapps per day and has sent less than 10
texts in his life, to mum who didn't use mobile internet until recently).


Europe has a "caller pays" price structure. The USA has a "recipient
pays" structure where the recipient of the SMS message pays for the
text. The result is that very few people care about cost of sending
an SMS message when they're not the one paying the bill. Also, it's a
great incentive for robocall services, which pay next to nothing to
spew their junk via SMS messages.

However, you're right. Chat apps have largely displaced SMS messages
in the USA, mostly because SMS is crude compared to a typical chat app
and of course, they're free.

My scheme would still work if it prevented the keyboard from working
when the phone is moving. The necessary logic might become rather
complicated, but methinks it can be done.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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  #32  
Old June 6th 19, 06:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Protecting yourself

On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 08:00:39 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

What is the driver is using a voice to text program whilst driving?
Cheers


Good question. In theory, he's doing only 2 things at once (driving
and talking). However, he has to control the message on the phone,
which means finger poking the screen of the smartphone to select
"send" or verify that speech-to-text didn't garble the message. So,
while he's talking, he's probably ok. But reading the incoming
message and using text to speech to reply is not because he's
distracted by the screen. It's much the same with 2way radio. There
are plenty of controls that might be distracting, but mostly they're
not used while driving. Worst case would be changing channel, which
is usually a simple dial.

Again, there are plenty of holes, exceptions, logic issues, and
problems with my scheme. However, I think it's better than doing
nothing about the problem, which is the current situation.

Do something, even if it's wrong. (from a former employer).

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #33  
Old June 6th 19, 07:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
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Posts: 401
Default Protecting yourself

On 06/06/2019 10:37 a.m., Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 06.06.2019 um 16:11 schrieb Jeff Liebermann:
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:03:52 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

But you can’t text without looking at it.


The problem can also be handled with a little social engineering.
Simply raise the price of texting while moving.


Does anybody without a text flat-rate still use texting these days?Â* In
Germany, the costs of texts have driven the young generation to whatsapp
(my son sends hundreds of whatsapps per day and has sent less than 10
texts in his life, to mum who didn't use mobile internet until recently).


Here in Quebec, data plans are limited but text to North America is
generally unlimited so something like WhatsApp or Messenger costs more.
  #34  
Old June 6th 19, 07:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Protecting yourself

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 9:48:48 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2019 8:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 06.06.2019 um 14:14 schrieb Duane:

You can listen or talk on a radio without looking at it.Â* Same with a
phone.Â*Â* Especially if you have some hands free device as most cars
do now.
But you can’t text without looking at it.

Well actually you can send text by voice using Siri on iPhone and
there's probably some app that reads it.


Siri can do that as well
https://www.dummies.com/consumer-ele...r-texts-aloud/
(and with the appropriate in-car integration, without needing to touch
the home button).

I have sat in a car as a passenger when the driver was texted by his
wife and sent an answer via Siri.Â* Needed a few repetitions to get the
right text but still simpler than ringing her to pass the estimated
arrival time.


And it's now so important to tell one's arrival time?

I can accept it may be important in some few instances- perhaps "I'll be
there before the baby is born!"

But from certain friends, I now get texts saying "We're almost there,
see you in five minutes." That's over-communication. We shouldn't need
minute by minute reports.


Personally, I like the high-level cell phone conferences (on speaker) at the produce department about what lettuce to buy. People whine about privacy, but will stand next to you in the store, in an elevator -- anywhere -- and broadcast their private conversations. Collaboration is now required for the most rudimentary activity. You even need to collaborate with inanimate objects like Siri and your car. We should just have our heads put in jars connected to wi-fi. http://www.monsterbashnews.com/Morepics/TheySavedHitler'sBrain-Head.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.
  #35  
Old June 6th 19, 08:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Protecting yourself

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 4:33:06 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jun 2019 08:16:55 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/5/2019 1:47 AM, Andy wrote:
I have thought about carrying a short range cell phone jammer while biking.

I have given it careful thought. But when traveling as a passenger I increasingly see drivers drifting over into other lanes.

They are irresponsible idiots who are a danger to everyone.

Andy


Good luck with that.
FCC has an unkindly view of pirate transmitters.


Somewhere on the net a guy wrote that "back in the day" a driver had a
wheel, a gear shift and three pedals and one switch on the floor and
had to be at least minimally alert to handle all this. Now with cruise
control the drive has only the wheel and this can spend more time on
other things like day-dreaming, sleeping or messing about with a hand
phone.

I wonder whether he may not have been correct?
--
cheers,

John B.


I'd like to see you drive anywhere in California and daydream.
  #36  
Old June 6th 19, 09:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Protecting yourself

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 7:11:21 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:03:52 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

But you can’t text without looking at it.


Notice that I didn't mention texting and that my suggestion would only
solve part of the mobile phone distraction problem.

Smartphones already have a built in GPS and accelerometer which can
detect if the phone is moving or stopped. It would be easy to disable
texting if the phone is moving. However, that would also prevent
texting while moving public transport (bus, train, airplane), as well
as prevent texting by passengers. So, there has to be a way to
determine if the phone is in the drivers seat. I could conjure
various schemes to make this work in new automobiles, but retrofitting
older passenger and commercial vehicles would be cost prohibitive. I'm
also undecided how to handle incoming texts, which will be a
distraction as the driver tries to read the message on the screen.
Displaying incoming texts could be delayed until the phone has stopped
moving, which might work for some applications.

The problem can also be handled with a little social engineering.
Simply raise the price of texting while moving. Since the phone can
detect if it's moving, the service provider can detect if the message
was sent while moving. Sending texts while stationary will be billed
at the usual low rate. Sending texts while moving gets billed and
possibly taxes at an exorbitant rate. I'm sure the service providers
will instantly approve of any idea that offers additional revenue.
Incoming texts would be delayed until the phone has stopped moving.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


How do you think that you can have an accelerometer on a device that can be held and pointed in all three direction?
  #37  
Old June 6th 19, 09:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Protecting yourself

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 12:48:48 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2019 8:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 06.06.2019 um 14:14 schrieb Duane:

You can listen or talk on a radio without looking at it.Â* Same with a
phone.Â*Â* Especially if you have some hands free device as most cars
do now.
But you can’t text without looking at it.

Well actually you can send text by voice using Siri on iPhone and
there's probably some app that reads it.


Siri can do that as well
https://www.dummies.com/consumer-ele...r-texts-aloud/
(and with the appropriate in-car integration, without needing to touch
the home button).

I have sat in a car as a passenger when the driver was texted by his
wife and sent an answer via Siri.Â* Needed a few repetitions to get the
right text but still simpler than ringing her to pass the estimated
arrival time.


And it's now so important to tell one's arrival time?

I can accept it may be important in some few instances- perhaps "I'll be
there before the baby is born!"

But from certain friends, I now get texts saying "We're almost there,
see you in five minutes." That's over-communication. We shouldn't need
minute by minute reports.

--
- Frank Krygowski


If you're going to waiting outside for someone it's kind of nice to know their ETA when the weather isn't nice.

Cheers
  #38  
Old June 6th 19, 09:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Protecting yourself

On 6/6/2019 2:58 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 9:48:48 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2019 8:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 06.06.2019 um 14:14 schrieb Duane:

You can listen or talk on a radio without looking at it.Â* Same with a
phone.Â*Â* Especially if you have some hands free device as most cars
do now.
But you can’t text without looking at it.

Well actually you can send text by voice using Siri on iPhone and
there's probably some app that reads it.

Siri can do that as well
https://www.dummies.com/consumer-ele...r-texts-aloud/
(and with the appropriate in-car integration, without needing to touch
the home button).

I have sat in a car as a passenger when the driver was texted by his
wife and sent an answer via Siri.Â* Needed a few repetitions to get the
right text but still simpler than ringing her to pass the estimated
arrival time.


And it's now so important to tell one's arrival time?

I can accept it may be important in some few instances- perhaps "I'll be
there before the baby is born!"

But from certain friends, I now get texts saying "We're almost there,
see you in five minutes." That's over-communication. We shouldn't need
minute by minute reports.


Personally, I like the high-level cell phone conferences (on speaker) at the produce department about what lettuce to buy. People whine about privacy, but will stand next to you in the store, in an elevator -- anywhere -- and broadcast their private conversations. Collaboration is now required for the most rudimentary activity.


Some people join in on the collaboration, just for fun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu5DP7atNKM

A few months ago I was reading quietly in the library. Some guy (60-ish,
old enough to know better) was talking on his cell phone in a loud
conversational voice, talking business - stuff like "Well, did he get
the invoice yet?" and "Fred should be able to take care of that
tomorrow" etc., on and on. Other readers glanced up and frowned but he
was clueless.

I decided to get up and look for a book on the shelf immediately next to
him. He moved around to the other side of the free-standing shelf rack,
so after a few seconds I diligently looked for a book over there -
pulling one out, opening it, putting it back, trying another...

After about three or four iterations, he finally walked out of the
library, still talking.

What ever happened to librarians who could say "SSHHHH!" at 95 decibels?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #39  
Old June 7th 19, 12:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Protecting yourself

On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 12:48:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/6/2019 8:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 06.06.2019 um 14:14 schrieb Duane:

You can listen or talk on a radio without looking at it.* Same with a
phone.** Especially if you have some hands free device as most cars
do now.
But you can’t text without looking at it.

Well actually you can send text by voice using Siri on iPhone and
there's probably some app that reads it.


Siri can do that as well
https://www.dummies.com/consumer-ele...r-texts-aloud/
(and with the appropriate in-car integration, without needing to touch
the home button).

I have sat in a car as a passenger when the driver was texted by his
wife and sent an answer via Siri.* Needed a few repetitions to get the
right text but still simpler than ringing her to pass the estimated
arrival time.


And it's now so important to tell one's arrival time?

I can accept it may be important in some few instances- perhaps "I'll be
there before the baby is born!"

But from certain friends, I now get texts saying "We're almost there,
see you in five minutes." That's over-communication. We shouldn't need
minute by minute reports.


Strange that in all my years I cannot remember an instance when it was
important for me to notify someone when, exactly, I would arrive. And
yes, there were innumerable instances when I was required to be at a
certain place at a certain time - "Be home at supper time or your
father will see to you!", or "If you aren't here for roll call you
will get a week of extra duty".

In short this irrational desire to be certain that you inform the
universe of every detail of your life is just that, irrational.

Or perhaps not. Perhaps it is simply evidence of an overweening
arrogance that you are so important that everyone must be interested
in your minute by minute activities.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #40  
Old June 7th 19, 12:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Protecting yourself

On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 13:29:11 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 12:48:48 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2019 8:54 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 06.06.2019 um 14:14 schrieb Duane:

You can listen or talk on a radio without looking at it.* Same with a
phone.** Especially if you have some hands free device as most cars
do now.
But you can’t text without looking at it.

Well actually you can send text by voice using Siri on iPhone and
there's probably some app that reads it.

Siri can do that as well
https://www.dummies.com/consumer-ele...r-texts-aloud/
(and with the appropriate in-car integration, without needing to touch
the home button).

I have sat in a car as a passenger when the driver was texted by his
wife and sent an answer via Siri.* Needed a few repetitions to get the
right text but still simpler than ringing her to pass the estimated
arrival time.


And it's now so important to tell one's arrival time?

I can accept it may be important in some few instances- perhaps "I'll be
there before the baby is born!"

But from certain friends, I now get texts saying "We're almost there,
see you in five minutes." That's over-communication. We shouldn't need
minute by minute reports.

--
- Frank Krygowski


If you're going to waiting outside for someone it's kind of nice to know their ETA when the weather isn't nice.

Cheers


Since ETA actually means Estimated Time of Arrival you could simply
tell someone, "I'll see you in front of the Post Office at 09:00
tomorrow. If its snowing I might be a little late.
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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