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  #31  
Old June 26th 19, 02:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default BB standard

On 6/25/2019 10:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 6:49:54 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:19:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


My Dad had a F100 from early 70s or late 60s with "three on the tree" shifting. And a clutch that had about one foot of travel to engage. It was fun to drive that 30 plus years ago.

Do kids today even know what a manual is, let alone how to drive a manual? I think many or most adults 50 and under have never driven one. USA.


A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a throw-back. They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.

-- Jay Beattie.


Yes. British close-range gearboxes were often said to be
'rowed through traffic with the gear lever'. I'd still take
one over a slushbox. YMMV

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Ads
  #32  
Old June 26th 19, 03:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default BB standard

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 6:09:44 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2019 10:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 6:49:54 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:19:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My Dad had a F100 from early 70s or late 60s with "three on the tree" shifting. And a clutch that had about one foot of travel to engage. It was fun to drive that 30 plus years ago.

Do kids today even know what a manual is, let alone how to drive a manual? I think many or most adults 50 and under have never driven one. USA.


A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a throw-back. They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.

-- Jay Beattie.


Yes. British close-range gearboxes were often said to be
'rowed through traffic with the gear lever'. I'd still take
one over a slushbox. YMMV


My son took the '96 five-speed 4Runner to University of Utah in Salt Lake and lived in the Avenues -- where clutches go to die. Endless steep hills, stop signs, lights and cars tight behind you. It gets tiring juggling clutches and brakes and accelerators. If I lived square in the middle of hills, I'd probably use an automatic with a manual/paddle feature since it is nice to have the control. Climbing up Mt. Hood to go skiing in my CVT under-powered Subaru is like driving a car with a seizure disorder unless you kick in the manual feature.

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #33  
Old June 26th 19, 04:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,346
Default BB standard

John B. wrote:

:In fact you can even buy a pickup truck with an automatic
:transmission.

In the US, you can't buy a real working pickup with a manual. Some
toy showoff version was available with one, but not any more. i think
the midsized toyota is available iwtha manual.


--
sig 39
  #34  
Old June 26th 19, 04:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default BB standard

On 6/26/2019 8:10 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
John B. wrote:

:In fact you can even buy a pickup truck with an automatic
:transmission.

In the US, you can't buy a real working pickup with a manual. Some
toy showoff version was available with one, but not any more. i think
the midsized toyota is available iwtha manual.


https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2019/03/why-the-full-size-trucks-manual-transmission-is-dead.html
  #35  
Old June 26th 19, 05:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default BB standard

On 6/26/2019 9:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2019 10:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 6:49:54 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:19:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving
incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always
worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a
time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed
approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and
the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe
themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the
same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older
people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
Â*Â* www.yellowjersey.org/
Â*Â* Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My Dad had a F100 from early 70s or late 60s with "three on the tree"
shifting.Â* And a clutch that had about one foot of travel to engage.
It was fun to drive that 30 plus years ago.

Do kids today even know what a manual is, let alone how to drive a
manual?Â* I think many or most adults 50 and under have never driven
one.Â* USA.


A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a
throw-back.Â* They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat
shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and
a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.

-- Jay Beattie.


Yes. British close-range gearboxes were often said to be 'rowed through
traffic with the gear lever'. I'd still take one over a slushbox. YMMV


+1.

And there's the built-in theft protection!
https://jalopnik.com/manual-transmis...h-t-1828135882


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #36  
Old June 26th 19, 08:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 840
Default BB standard

On 6/26/2019 7:14 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 6:09:44 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2019 10:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 6:49:54 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:19:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My Dad had a F100 from early 70s or late 60s with "three on the tree" shifting. And a clutch that had about one foot of travel to engage. It was fun to drive that 30 plus years ago.

Do kids today even know what a manual is, let alone how to drive a manual? I think many or most adults 50 and under have never driven one. USA.

A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a throw-back. They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.

-- Jay Beattie.


Yes. British close-range gearboxes were often said to be
'rowed through traffic with the gear lever'. I'd still take
one over a slushbox. YMMV


My son took the '96 five-speed 4Runner to University of Utah in Salt Lake and lived in the Avenues -- where clutches go to die. Endless steep hills, stop signs, lights and cars tight behind you. It gets tiring juggling clutches and brakes and accelerators. If I lived square in the middle of hills, I'd probably use an automatic with a manual/paddle feature since it is nice to have the control. Climbing up Mt. Hood to go skiing in my CVT under-powered Subaru is like driving a car with a seizure disorder unless you kick in the manual feature.

-- Jay Beattie.


How does one manually shift a CVT? With a dial?

Mark J.
  #37  
Old June 26th 19, 10:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default BB standard

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 12:56:33 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 6/26/2019 7:14 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 6:09:44 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2019 10:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 6:49:54 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:19:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My Dad had a F100 from early 70s or late 60s with "three on the tree" shifting. And a clutch that had about one foot of travel to engage. It was fun to drive that 30 plus years ago.

Do kids today even know what a manual is, let alone how to drive a manual? I think many or most adults 50 and under have never driven one. USA.

A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a throw-back.. They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.

-- Jay Beattie.


Yes. British close-range gearboxes were often said to be
'rowed through traffic with the gear lever'. I'd still take
one over a slushbox. YMMV


My son took the '96 five-speed 4Runner to University of Utah in Salt Lake and lived in the Avenues -- where clutches go to die. Endless steep hills, stop signs, lights and cars tight behind you. It gets tiring juggling clutches and brakes and accelerators. If I lived square in the middle of hills, I'd probably use an automatic with a manual/paddle feature since it is nice to have the control. Climbing up Mt. Hood to go skiing in my CVT under-powered Subaru is like driving a car with a seizure disorder unless you kick in the manual feature.

-- Jay Beattie.


How does one manually shift a CVT? With a dial?

Mark J.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s02C4Lfop5M bla, bla, bla -- shift lever, slap paddles. I'm sure there's an interface where you can spin the dial on an old iPod. I've got an Outback, standard issue for the DPR of Portland.

BTW, I went to Costco for the really late spring tire swap and was told that my Blizzaks were kaput, so now I have to get new snow tires. I'm thinking of going back to studded asphalt eaters because they are so good in ice, but I'll probably get guilted into buying studless again.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #38  
Old June 26th 19, 10:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default BB standard

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 12:06:48 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 6/25/2019 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:54:43 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/25/2019 8:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a throw-back.. They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.

True. How can you shave, brush your hair, put on make-up, eat oatmeal,
text, and drink coffee if you have to keep using one hand to shift.

Still, if they ever want to rent a vehicle in Europe or Asia they should
know how to drive a stick, or be prepared to pay a big premium for an
automatic.


In Thailand I doubt that there is a auto dealer even offering hand
shift automobile any more. In fact I can't remember seeing a hand
shift in a privately owned auto in the last 20 years, or so.

In fact you can even buy a pickup truck with an automatic
transmission.


I was just in Europe and automatics were rare. A few Priuses, and a
handful of other cars but other than that all manuals.


Huh? We are catching up. For audi's, bmw and mercedes automatic transmission is the norm now. I made the switch 5 years ago after 35 years driving cars with a manual transmission. Driving a manual transmission now seems something from the stone age compared to my current 7 speed automatic transmission with extra flappy paddles for manual shifting (rarely use them) and you can change the settings while driving. I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Lou
  #39  
Old June 26th 19, 10:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:09:35 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/25/2019 10:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 6:49:54 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:19:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My Dad had a F100 from early 70s or late 60s with "three on the tree" shifting. And a clutch that had about one foot of travel to engage. It was fun to drive that 30 plus years ago.

Do kids today even know what a manual is, let alone how to drive a manual? I think many or most adults 50 and under have never driven one. USA.


A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a throw-back. They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.

-- Jay Beattie.


Yes. British close-range gearboxes were often said to be
'rowed through traffic with the gear lever'. I'd still take
one over a slushbox. YMMV


I used to believe the same but newer automatic transmissions seem to
be (1) about as efficient in fuel use and (2) as efficient in putting
power on the road effectively. My wife's new Honda HR-V seems to run
forever on a rank of gas and you can't even feel it shift. Just step
on the pedal and go.

Another good thing about the automatic is that "my" Honda dealer
doesn't stock manual transmission cars any more so the manual is hard
to find :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #40  
Old June 26th 19, 10:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:51:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/26/2019 9:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2019 10:44 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 6:49:54 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 6:19:42 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2019 6:00 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 1:34:14 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It baffles me a bit that bike manufacturers keep moving
incrementally towards the American pattern BB, which has always
worked but which they somehow pretend doesn't exist. Why ignore a
time-proven design that is free and open, to make a half-assed
approximation of it that has problems?

You are expecting engineers to all have the same educations and
the same historic knowledge. In fact most engineers believe
themselves smarter than those who came before. We are seeing the
same thing with the Millennial Generation wo think that older
people are stupid and they are God's gift to the universe.

Certainly true and apparently has been true since man started walking
erect and very likely due to two things. One that the world is
changing and unless you keep up with it you are "stupid" in the sense
that you know less than someone with a more modern education. On the
other hand "modern chaps" will often not know stuff that an older
person will think "everybody knows that".

An engineer that worked for me used to tell a story about how he had
been tasked with designing a wooden bridge and couldn't find a thing
concerning wooden bridge building in any of his engineering books. He
finally located an old retired engineer who had worked 30 or 40 years
for the railroad and had designed and built wooden bridges who told
him "all the secrets".
--
cheers,

John B.


Daughter asked today if grandson could drive my 1966 Malibu
to rack up more 'driving practice' for his temp license.
It's a column shift 3 speed and even though I offered
instruction time, they passed on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
** www.yellowjersey.org/
** Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My Dad had a F100 from early 70s or late 60s with "three on the tree"
shifting.* And a clutch that had about one foot of travel to engage.
It was fun to drive that 30 plus years ago.

Do kids today even know what a manual is, let alone how to drive a
manual?* I think many or most adults 50 and under have never driven
one.* USA.

A lot of kids are capable driving a clutch but see it as a
throw-back.* They would rather drive an automatic and not sweat
shifting. I don't blame them. Inner-city driving with a clutch -- and
a cup of coffee, iPhone and hair comb is hard.

-- Jay Beattie.


Yes. British close-range gearboxes were often said to be 'rowed through
traffic with the gear lever'. I'd still take one over a slushbox. YMMV


+1.

And there's the built-in theft protection!
https://jalopnik.com/manual-transmis...h-t-1828135882


I've found use of a horse and buggy to be even more incomprehensible
to robbers :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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