#51
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On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote: I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now. Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty. The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty. I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty, but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement. Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck. I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that transmission coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in towing: https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/ That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue. Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of locking torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times. The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an automatic.) None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing. Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc. even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#53
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BB standard
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:47:40 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote: I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now. Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty. The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty. I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty, but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement. Although some heavy trucks have auto transmissions today I think that probably a manual shift would be more convenient for hauling a trailer as if nothing else it will allow an appropriate gear to be selected for going down steep hills. My Isuzu pickup has a "low range' selection on it's auto transmission but that is too low except for something like the Matterhorn :-) -- cheers, John B. |
#54
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BB standard
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:12:39 -0700, sms
wrote: On 6/27/2019 9:59 AM, wrote: snip But they are all available with an AT but people, - feel manly to stick shift, - find AT too expensive, - don't know what they are missing and think AT are still slow and sluggish. If I simulate my manual shift from my driveway to the main road about 400 m away it would be: r-1-2-3-2-Corner-3-4-2-speedbump-2-3-4-2-speedbump-3-4-2-corner to main road 15 manual shift in only 400 meter. Crazy. Automatic transmission: choose sport setting or leaving the default comfort setting R-D done! Not disagreeing that an AT is a better choice. And for vehicles with a good AT it'll end up costing less because it'll last longer than a clutch replacement on an MT. But some vehicles have had problematic ATs i.e. Hondas from 1998 to 2004. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus I keep reading this about clutch replacement but I don't remember my folks ever having to change a clutch on any of their cars and my first car was a 1937 Chevrolet that I inherited when my folks bought a new car and it lasted me for two years before it died and I'm pretty sure that it still had the original clutch in it. Or, at least I know that my folks never changed the clutch and I certainly didn't. And my Grandfather had a Model A pickup that he drove for something like 20 years without a clutch change. Given that a good friends family had about a 1939 Chevrolet and they seemed to go through about one clutch a year I believe that clutch wear is largely a matter of the driver's technique and not a matter of some sort inherent weakness. -- cheers, John B. |
#55
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BB standard
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:01:34 -0700, sms
wrote: On 6/27/2019 3:00 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote: I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now. Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty. The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty. I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty, but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement. Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck. True. And one of the reasons there are no manual transmission trucks sold in the U.S. anymore. The only reason for a manual is off-road driving in low gear. You can still buy a Jeep Wrangler with a manual, in fact not sure if they even offer an automatic. "no manual transmission trucks sold in the U.S. anymore" See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZKajOTa4Gg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6GpCqj1REo -- cheers, John B. |
#56
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On 6/27/2019 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:12:39 -0700, sms wrote: On 6/27/2019 9:59 AM, wrote: snip But they are all available with an AT but people, - feel manly to stick shift, - find AT too expensive, - don't know what they are missing and think AT are still slow and sluggish. If I simulate my manual shift from my driveway to the main road about 400 m away it would be: r-1-2-3-2-Corner-3-4-2-speedbump-2-3-4-2-speedbump-3-4-2-corner to main road 15 manual shift in only 400 meter. Crazy. Automatic transmission: choose sport setting or leaving the default comfort setting R-D done! Not disagreeing that an AT is a better choice. And for vehicles with a good AT it'll end up costing less because it'll last longer than a clutch replacement on an MT. But some vehicles have had problematic ATs i.e. Hondas from 1998 to 2004. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus I keep reading this about clutch replacement but I don't remember my folks ever having to change a clutch on any of their cars and my first car was a 1937 Chevrolet that I inherited when my folks bought a new car and it lasted me for two years before it died and I'm pretty sure that it still had the original clutch in it. Or, at least I know that my folks never changed the clutch and I certainly didn't. And my Grandfather had a Model A pickup that he drove for something like 20 years without a clutch change. Given that a good friends family had about a 1939 Chevrolet and they seemed to go through about one clutch a year I believe that clutch wear is largely a matter of the driver's technique and not a matter of some sort inherent weakness. -- cheers, John B. "largely a matter of the driver's technique" +1 -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#57
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John B. wrote:
:Although some heavy trucks have auto transmissions today I think that robably a manual shift would be more convenient for hauling a trailer :as if nothing else it will allow an appropriate gear to be selected :for going down steep hills. My Isuzu pickup has a "low range' :selection on it's auto transmission but that is too low except for :something like the Matterhorn :-) Any number of automatic transmissions allow the selection of a particular gear, and will hold that gear. -- sig 127 |
#58
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On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote: I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now. Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty. The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty. I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty, but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement. Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck. I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that transmission coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in towing: https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/ That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue. Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of locking torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times. The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an automatic.) None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing. Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc. even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might. All auto transmissions used to have a cooler as initially installed but I just went out and had a look at my wife's new Honda and while the engine compartment is pretty crowded I certainly can't see a transmission cooler so I assume that they are no longer necessary. Looking at the parts list there appears to be a "transmission warmer" though. -- cheers, John B. |
#59
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On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 1:00:32 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote: I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now. Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty. The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty. I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty, but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement. Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck. I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that transmission coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in towing: https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/ That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue. Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of locking torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times. The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an automatic.) None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing. Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc. even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might. All auto transmissions used to have a cooler as initially installed but I just went out and had a look at my wife's new Honda and while the engine compartment is pretty crowded I certainly can't see a transmission cooler so I assume that they are no longer necessary. Looking at the parts list there appears to be a "transmission warmer" though. -- cheers, John B. Browning had a so called automatic transmission for bicycles. I wonder how long it will be now that electronics are so small before a genuine automatic transmission will be available for bicycles? After all, we do have electronic shifting for bicycles that seems to have all the bugs worked out of it.. Cheers |
#60
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Am 27.06.2019 um 15:13 schrieb sms:
I was just over in Germany two weeks ago (Berlin) and I made a point of looking for AT cars, peering in the windows. There were a few luxury cars with automatics, but the vast majority of vehicles (VW, Skoda, Toyota, Opel, Ford, etc.) were manual. Europeans traditionally have an idea of "active driving" which means to include deciding when to change gears. The switch to AT is (more or less) just happening now: Many people realize that the "stop-and-go assistants" for the motorways are a lot more useful in combination with AT, so it appears that new cars the size of VW Golf or larger tend to have a higher AT rate since 2 or 3 years. |
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