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  #61  
Old June 28th 19, 09:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:32:19 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/27/2019 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:12:39 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 9:59 AM, wrote:

snip

But they are all available with an AT but people,
- feel manly to stick shift,
- find AT too expensive,
- don't know what they are missing and think AT are still slow and sluggish.

If I simulate my manual shift from my driveway to the main road about 400 m away it would be:
r-1-2-3-2-Corner-3-4-2-speedbump-2-3-4-2-speedbump-3-4-2-corner to main road 15 manual shift in only 400 meter. Crazy. Automatic transmission: choose sport setting or leaving the default comfort setting R-D done!

Not disagreeing that an AT is a better choice. And for vehicles with a
good AT it'll end up costing less because it'll last longer than a
clutch replacement on an MT. But some vehicles have had problematic ATs
i.e. Hondas from 1998 to 2004.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I keep reading this about clutch replacement but I don't remember my
folks ever having to change a clutch on any of their cars and my first
car was a 1937 Chevrolet that I inherited when my folks bought a new
car and it lasted me for two years before it died and I'm pretty sure
that it still had the original clutch in it. Or, at least I know that
my folks never changed the clutch and I certainly didn't. And my
Grandfather had a Model A pickup that he drove for something like 20
years without a clutch change.

Given that a good friends family had about a 1939 Chevrolet and they
seemed to go through about one clutch a year I believe that clutch
wear is largely a matter of the driver's technique and not a matter of
some sort inherent weakness.
--
cheers,

John B.


"largely a matter of the driver's technique"
+1


The only time that I ever noticed having to slip the clutch very much
was starting out on a hill where you needed to keep the car from
rolling backward before you could get going. Brake, Clutch and
throttle were hard to manage with only two feet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJleJbn9G6Y :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #62  
Old June 28th 19, 09:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:22:43 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 1:00:32 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.

Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.

I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that transmission
coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in
towing:
https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/
That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue.

Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of locking
torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at
cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think
there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have
towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times.

The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same
trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an automatic.)
None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac
Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it
was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with
old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing.

Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc.
even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just
went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't
seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might.


All auto transmissions used to have a cooler as initially installed
but I just went out and had a look at my wife's new Honda and while
the engine compartment is pretty crowded I certainly can't see a
transmission cooler so I assume that they are no longer necessary.
Looking at the parts list there appears to be a "transmission warmer"
though.
--
cheers,

John B.


Browning had a so called automatic transmission for bicycles. I wonder how long it will be now that electronics are so small before a genuine automatic transmission will be available for bicycles? After all, we do have electronic shifting for bicycles that seems to have all the bugs worked out of it.

Cheers


Apparently someone has built one. See:
http://evworld.com/urban.cfm?newsid=52
http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/nuvinc...cvt-test-ride/
--
cheers,

John B.

  #63  
Old June 28th 19, 09:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default BB standard

On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 4:18:27 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:22:43 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 1:00:32 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.

Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.

I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that transmission
coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in
towing:
https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/
That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue.

Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of locking
torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at
cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think
there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have
towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times.

The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same
trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an automatic.)
None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac
Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it
was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with
old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing.

Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc.
even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just
went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't
seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might.

All auto transmissions used to have a cooler as initially installed
but I just went out and had a look at my wife's new Honda and while
the engine compartment is pretty crowded I certainly can't see a
transmission cooler so I assume that they are no longer necessary.
Looking at the parts list there appears to be a "transmission warmer"
though.
--
cheers,

John B.


Browning had a so called automatic transmission for bicycles. I wonder how long it will be now that electronics are so small before a genuine automatic transmission will be available for bicycles? After all, we do have electronic shifting for bicycles that seems to have all the bugs worked out of it.

Cheers


Apparently someone has built one. See:
http://evworld.com/urban.cfm?newsid=52
http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/nuvinc...cvt-test-ride/
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm not disabling my Adblock in order to read the first link. The second link is still a manual twist grip shifter.

Cheers
  #64  
Old June 28th 19, 11:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default BB standard

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:27:02 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 4:18:27 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:22:43 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 1:00:32 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.

Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.

I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that transmission
coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in
towing:
https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/
That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue.

Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of locking
torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at
cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think
there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have
towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times.

The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same
trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an automatic.)
None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac
Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it
was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with
old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing.

Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc.
even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just
went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't
seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might.

All auto transmissions used to have a cooler as initially installed
but I just went out and had a look at my wife's new Honda and while
the engine compartment is pretty crowded I certainly can't see a
transmission cooler so I assume that they are no longer necessary.
Looking at the parts list there appears to be a "transmission warmer"
though.
--
cheers,

John B.

Browning had a so called automatic transmission for bicycles. I wonder how long it will be now that electronics are so small before a genuine automatic transmission will be available for bicycles? After all, we do have electronic shifting for bicycles that seems to have all the bugs worked out of it.

Cheers


Apparently someone has built one. See:
http://evworld.com/urban.cfm?newsid=52
http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/nuvinc...cvt-test-ride/
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm not disabling my Adblock in order to read the first link. The second link is still a manual twist grip shifter.

Cheers


The first link was a description of the "automatic transmission"
using a gear box and an SRM front hub generator.
The second link was a link describing the gear box.
They have manufactured 100 bikes using the system.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #65  
Old June 28th 19, 01:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default BB standard

On 6/27/2019 9:31 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:01:34 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 3:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.

Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.


True. And one of the reasons there are no manual transmission trucks
sold in the U.S. anymore. The only reason for a manual is off-road
driving in low gear. You can still buy a Jeep Wrangler with a manual, in
fact not sure if they even offer an automatic.


"no manual transmission trucks sold in the U.S. anymore"
See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZKajOTa4Gg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6GpCqj1REo
--
cheers,

John B.


First link, second comment:
"I wish the engine brake actually did something when I’m
loaded. It does absolutely nothing. I really dislike this
transmission"

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #66  
Old June 28th 19, 01:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default BB standard

On 6/28/2019 3:18 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:22:43 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 1:00:32 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.

Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.

I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that transmission
coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in
towing:
https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/
That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue.

Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of locking
torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at
cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think
there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have
towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times.

The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same
trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an automatic.)
None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac
Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it
was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with
old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing.

Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc.
even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just
went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't
seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might.

All auto transmissions used to have a cooler as initially installed
but I just went out and had a look at my wife's new Honda and while
the engine compartment is pretty crowded I certainly can't see a
transmission cooler so I assume that they are no longer necessary.
Looking at the parts list there appears to be a "transmission warmer"
though.
--
cheers,

John B.


Browning had a so called automatic transmission for bicycles. I wonder how long it will be now that electronics are so small before a genuine automatic transmission will be available for bicycles? After all, we do have electronic shifting for bicycles that seems to have all the bugs worked out of it.

Cheers


Apparently someone has built one. See:
http://evworld.com/urban.cfm?newsid=52
http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/nuvinc...cvt-test-ride/
--
cheers,

John B.


Nuvinci are CVT=infinite step not an actual auto.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #67  
Old June 28th 19, 01:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 853
Default BB standard

John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:32:19 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/27/2019 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:12:39 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 9:59 AM, wrote:

snip

But they are all available with an AT but people,
- feel manly to stick shift,
- find AT too expensive,
- don't know what they are missing and think AT are still slow and sluggish.

If I simulate my manual shift from my driveway to the main road about
400 m away it would be:
r-1-2-3-2-Corner-3-4-2-speedbump-2-3-4-2-speedbump-3-4-2-corner to
main road 15 manual shift in only 400 meter. Crazy. Automatic
transmission: choose sport setting or leaving the default comfort setting R-D done!

Not disagreeing that an AT is a better choice. And for vehicles with a
good AT it'll end up costing less because it'll last longer than a
clutch replacement on an MT. But some vehicles have had problematic ATs
i.e. Hondas from 1998 to 2004.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I keep reading this about clutch replacement but I don't remember my
folks ever having to change a clutch on any of their cars and my first
car was a 1937 Chevrolet that I inherited when my folks bought a new
car and it lasted me for two years before it died and I'm pretty sure
that it still had the original clutch in it. Or, at least I know that
my folks never changed the clutch and I certainly didn't. And my
Grandfather had a Model A pickup that he drove for something like 20
years without a clutch change.

Given that a good friends family had about a 1939 Chevrolet and they
seemed to go through about one clutch a year I believe that clutch
wear is largely a matter of the driver's technique and not a matter of
some sort inherent weakness.
--
cheers,

John B.


"largely a matter of the driver's technique"
+1


The only time that I ever noticed having to slip the clutch very much
was starting out on a hill where you needed to keep the car from
rolling backward before you could get going. Brake, Clutch and
throttle were hard to manage with only two feet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJleJbn9G6Y :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


In smaller vehicles, with hand operated parking brakes, it’s not a big
deal.

  #68  
Old June 28th 19, 03:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default BB standard

On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 5:29:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/27/2019 9:31 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:01:34 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 3:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.

Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.

True. And one of the reasons there are no manual transmission trucks
sold in the U.S. anymore. The only reason for a manual is off-road
driving in low gear. You can still buy a Jeep Wrangler with a manual, in
fact not sure if they even offer an automatic.


"no manual transmission trucks sold in the U.S. anymore"
See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZKajOTa4Gg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6GpCqj1REo
--
cheers,

John B.


First link, second comment:
"I wish the engine brake actually did something when I’m
loaded. It does absolutely nothing. I really dislike this
transmission"


I think the guy is complaining about the compression braking, which is tied to the transmission. See https://www.truckingtruth.com/trucke...-peterbilt-579 These folks seem to conflate engine braking with compression braking.

Manual transmissions give you more control going up and down hill, but the AT on my Subaru, for example, gives you the option of manual shifting which helps mitigate the spastic CVT.

I did a lot of towing with my old 5sp 4Runner, and backing a loaded trailer up hill and making a 90 degree turn into my driveway was a clutch burner. It's easier with the Subaru except that the Subaru is under-powered, and the hatch back is a blind-spot. The 1996 4Runner was like a terrarium by comparison, although later models were less so.

And for John B, yes clutches burn out. On the 4Runner, it has gone through one clutch in 24 years -- which my son burned out in the middle of nowhere Oregon on his way home from Utah. He struggled into Baker City, spent the night in a hotel while some guy at a place called Grumpy's put in a clutch. http://www.grumpysrepair.com/ Not cheap, but at least we added to the Baker City economy. He fries the clutch in SLC with all the hills and stops and clutch-slipping.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #69  
Old June 28th 19, 03:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default BB standard

On 6/28/2019 1:22 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 1:00:32 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
I see no reason today for manual shifting except for sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's). Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.

Why? Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same model with a MT because of the AT torque converter. I don't see why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing -- particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.

I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that transmission
coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in
towing:
https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/
That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue.

Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of locking
torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at
cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think
there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have
towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times.

The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same
trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an automatic.)
None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac
Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it
was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with
old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing.

Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc.
even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just
went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't
seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might.


All auto transmissions used to have a cooler as initially installed
but I just went out and had a look at my wife's new Honda and while
the engine compartment is pretty crowded I certainly can't see a
transmission cooler so I assume that they are no longer necessary.
Looking at the parts list there appears to be a "transmission warmer"
though.
--
cheers,

John B.


Browning had a so called automatic transmission for bicycles. I wonder how long it will be now that electronics are so small before a genuine automatic transmission will be available for bicycles? After all, we do have electronic shifting for bicycles that seems to have all the bugs worked out of it.


Seems to me that automatic bicycle transmissions might possibly work for
leisurely riders who avoid any physical challenges - that is, the kind
that ride only on bike paths or around their neighborhoods, and never
with any significant loads. I can't imagine they'd do well with people
who sometimes want to cruise slowly, sometimes want to stand to charge a
hill, sometimes want to spin at high cadence, sometimes carry a heavy
load, etc.

But even for leisurely riders - why? With a hub gear or an index
shifting 1x system, if you want it easier, you click once one way. If
you want it harder, you click the other way. What could be easier? Why
complicate?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #70  
Old June 28th 19, 04:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default BB standard

On 6/28/2019 8:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/28/2019 3:18 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:22:43 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 1:00:32 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/27/2019 6:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 1:47:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 6/26/2019 5:26 PM, wrote:
Â*Â* I see no reason today for manual shifting except for
sentimental reasons and that it is cheaper (2000 -3000 euro's).
Modern automatic transmission outperform manual shifting in
every way, at least the one I'm driving now.

Here's my situation: We drive a Mazda 3. We have a tiny pop-up
camping
trailer. It weighs only 750 pounds empty.

The Mazda's stated towing capacity is zero, although I've been
told that
if I had bought the exact same vehicle in Europe, it's towing
capacity
would be listed as 500 kg, which is plenty.

I put a trailer hitch on this car as soon as I got it, and we've
towed
the trailer as far as Nova Scotia. I knew I was violating the
warranty,
but I judged it worth the risk. If the car had an automatic
transmission, I don't know if I'd make that same judgement.

Why?Â*Â* Towing trailers in hilly terrain is a clutch killer, and
typically cars with ATs have higher towing capacity than the same
model with a MT because of the AT torque converter.Â* I don't see
why having a MT would make you feel more positive about towing --
particularly on a car that probably has a pretty low-torque first
gear since it is just a family sedan and not a truck.

I admit, I haven't looked into this deeply. But I know that
transmission
coolers are sold as accessories for automatic transmissions used in
towing:
https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-y...ssion-coolers/

Â* That gives me pause, especially with the warranty issue.

Perhaps those coolers aren't quite as important in these days of
locking
torque converters, but my understanding is that they lock up only at
cruising speed; so if I were towing slowly up a mountain, I'd think
there would be a potential for transmission overheating. And we have
towed this trailer over the Appalachians and Rockies many times.

The Mazda is the fourth little car with which we've towed this same
trailer, all with manual transmissions. (I've never owned an
automatic.)
None had any transmission problem, and only the last one, the Pontiac
Vibe, ever had a clutch problem, a very slight occasional slip once it
was 10+ years old. But since slipping clutches were a known issue with
old Vibes, it probably had little or nothing to do with the towing.

Regarding torque: There's always been enough to climb mountains, etc.
even when the car towing this trailer was a 1985 Honda Civic. We just
went up fairly slowly in a low gear. I the manual transmission didn't
seem to care. I suspect an automatic trans might.

All auto transmissions used to have a cooler as initially installed
but I just went out and had a look at my wife's new Honda and while
the engine compartment is pretty crowded I certainly can't see a
transmission cooler so I assume that they are no longer necessary.
Looking at the parts list there appears to be a "transmission warmer"
though.
--
cheers,

John B.

Browning had a so called automatic transmission for bicycles. I
wonder how long it will be now that electronics are so small before a
genuine automatic transmission will be available for bicycles? After
all, we do have electronic shifting for bicycles that seems to have
all the bugs worked out of it.

Cheers


Apparently someone has built one. See:
http://evworld.com/urban.cfm?newsid=52
http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/nuvinc...cvt-test-ride/
--
cheers,

John B.


Nuvinci are CVT=infinite step not an actual auto.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG


IIRC, the NuVinci is pretty inefficient. Lots more energy lost inside
the box than with typical gears.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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