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#1
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4130 Chromoly vs. Reynolds 853 Steel
Can any of you explain the diffrence between the various steels used
for bicycles and their comparitive advantages? Example: A Lemond Zurich (DF) boasts a Reynolds 853 sticker on the frame. It seems as though all of the steel recumbents are 4130 chromoly. Thanks in advance. |
#3
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4130 Chromoly vs. Reynolds 853 Steel
Bobinator wrote:
Can any of you explain the diffrence between the various steels used for bicycles and their comparitive advantages? Example: A Lemond Zurich (DF) boasts a Reynolds 853 sticker on the frame. It seems as though all of the steel recumbents are 4130 chromoly. Thanks in advance. 853 has a higher strength to weight ratio, has better fatigue strength and stiffness (about 30% greater than 4130). 853 is still Reynold's best steel. The joints actually gain strength as they cool. 853 cannot be brazed, only welded. Reynolds makes a 4130 called Reynolds 525. It's a general all-purpose tube - less expensive than 853. R2 -- -------------------------- Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com |
#4
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4130 Chromoly vs. Reynolds 853 Steel
The reason recumbents are done in 4130 is that a the tubing shapes and
sizes of a diamond frame bike do not cross over to a recumbent... yet. Diamond frame tubes are usually no longer then 2 feet. Some recumbent frames require 4 foot lengths. Diamond frames are fairly routine in their dimensions. In many cases, paint is all that makes one brand different from another. In recumbent land the frames are very different from one maker to the next. Change the paint and you will still know where the frame came from. 4130 is good, strong material that comes in many sizes and shapes. Perfect for the small manufacture. Speedy Bobinator wrote: Can any of you explain the diffrence between the various steels used for bicycles and their comparitive advantages? Example: A Lemond Zurich (DF) boasts a Reynolds 853 sticker on the frame. It seems as though all of the steel recumbents are 4130 chromoly. Thanks in advance. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- |
#5
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4130 Chromoly vs. Reynolds 853 Steel
FWIW, interesting comment I saw posted recently on steel tubing:
"725 is Reynold's replacement for 753, it was introduced 4-5 years ago. It is a Chromium-Molybedenum steel alloy that is heat-treated. Its non heat-treated brother is 525 which is also the 531 replacement. 725 is a very desirable tubing, said to be nearly identical to the famous but sadly gone Tange Prestige tubing. Biggest advantage versus 753 is its heat tolerance. Its low carbon content makes 725 easily joined with silver, brass or even TIG welding, although it does suffer some annealing in heat effected area. Most importantly for ride and durability, 725 has much better elongation and ductility than air-hardened alloys thus maintains much of that resilience that tubesets like 531 and 753 were most noted for. I would avoid 853/653, Columbus Foco/Ultra Foco, Dedacciai 16.5 and True Temper OX Platinum/Gold -- these are in my experience rather "harsh or brittle" to borrow your phrasing." "Bobinator" wrote in message m... Can any of you explain the diffrence between the various steels used for bicycles and their comparitive advantages? Example: A Lemond Zurich (DF) boasts a Reynolds 853 sticker on the frame. It seems as though all of the steel recumbents are 4130 chromoly. Thanks in advance. |
#6
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4130 Chromoly vs. Reynolds 853 Steel
General rules of metallurgy:
Stiffness is a function of elastic modulus. Just about all steel alloys have similar enough moduli that any difference would vanish into the noise. One should almost NEVER weld heat treatable steels, or any other heat treatable alloy for that matter, unless you are prepared to re-heat treat or accept the loss of strength in the base metal next to the weld joint. The weld may meet the strength of the original base metal but the heat from the welding will completely mess up the heat treatment of the base metal next to the joint. Furthermore in thick sections, nothing in bike manufacture is thick enough for this concern, it is required to heat the metal to red hot to prevent cracking of the base metal next to the weld joint. (Personal lesson learned here is to never simply tell someone to get the joint hotter than hell before welding unless you tell them how hot you think hell is.) Fatigue resistance and actual tensile strength is a function of the alloy, but it is also a function of the heat treatment. Also, the fatigue resistance of steels is relatively high. Minor changes can seriously affect the fatigue properties of aluminum alloys because it is is much lower, but steel is relatively tolerant. I'm not sure if you'll see any real differences here in a practical, rather than laboratory, situation. If there is any real differences, you might see some effect in corrosion resistance. An alloy that is tweaked to the limits of what it can do will corrode faster than one that is working in the center of its capabilities. 4130 Cr-Mo steel is used frequently because it is an old well-characterized alloy. It's commonly available, easy to manufacture, and in the kinds of section thicknesses you see in bikes, easy to heat treat. If you were willing to pay what it cost to make a custom titanium bike and end up with a steel bike, I could suggest some better steel alloys that, if you were the kind of rider that Fabrizio thinks he is, you might be able to detect the difference in performance. From a basic metallurgy standpoint only, the differences in alloys means they can charge you more money because they use their "custom" alloy rather than garden variety 4130. Racing strips would be about as effective. |
#7
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4130 Chromoly vs. Reynolds 853 Steel
FWIW the frame of the late lamented Kingcycle was made from custom-ovalised
plain-gauge 531. Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/ ================================================== ========= Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter http://www.bhpc.org.uk/ ================================================== ========= |
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